M Helsdon

4 hours ago, creativehum said:

1. Are the runes PCs start with in HQ:G the same runes that PCs once sought out in RQ?

No, because runes weren't part of the character generation or development process in RQ1, RQ2 or RQ3.

4 hours ago, creativehum said:

That is, do the PCs start with what they once had to work to get? Am I understanding this correctly?

Two very different systems with very different mechanics.

36 minutes ago, David Scott said:

Wyrm's Footnotes 8, Gods & Goddesses of Glorantha: Part Four - Spirits of the Sea, has some rudimentary family trees. Does anyone know of a more recent one for the Sea Gods?

 

Missing Lands has a few (1998) including a Genealogy of the Triolini. It doesn't differ significantly from the one in Footnotes.

21 minutes ago, Runeblogger said:

I wonder if almost all Gloranthan merfolk were designed from the start as air-breathing creatures just so land-dwellers (the main characters in the usual stories) could come across them more often? 

Some merfolk are descended from Niiads who allied with Air Gods and so breathe air, and others are descended from Niiads who fought the Air Gods, and don't breathe air. The former are mammalian, the latter fish-like.

Probably non-canonical.

The Dara Happans are obsessed with the number ten and consider it and its multiples to be the perfect number. There were once ten fabled Dara Happa elite regiments known as the Stonewall Phalanxes. All were active since the time of the Gods War.

Unlike later regiments, the Wall Phalanxes all shared two characteristic magical effects: Their ability to stand against an impacting charge and take much less damage than a normal infantry unit and their ability to be unbeatable if with the other nine Wall Phalanxes. Each also had a traditional foe, against whom they were especially effective in melee.

These regiments, later called the Ten Traditional Phalanxes, were all extant in the time of Khordavu, and helped that great Emperor to hold his throne. At that time they all had their own mythic connections with other war gods which gave them their great durability and fervor. They served in peace and war and throughout the Arkat Wars. For this whole time, whenever all ten fought side by side, they were invincible.

This perfection was not to last as regiments were slowly eliminated forever, beyond resurrection. 

The ancient Stonewall units generally survived the vast slaughter of the Dragonkill because they had been assigned to the Home Garrison Army by Emperor Elmexdros, along with most of the other Traditional Units. They, considered old and inferior, were left behind to guard the women when the Golden Horde marched south to their destruction. 

Most of the Stonewall Phalanxes worship Polaris as their founder. They are each guarded by a star up in the Celestial City, one of the officers of Polaris.

• The legendary Basalt Phalanx of the city of Iothaka was the first to be destroyed when it rebelled against Emperor Erzanestyu in the early Second Age. Both the regiment and the city were destroyed, leaving only haunted ruins. It had special magic for fighting the sokastori but no one recalls what they were.
• The Beryl Phalanx of the city of Darleep has special magic for fighting against the Ram People of Talastar and Brolia. It now serves in the Heartland Corps of the Lunar Army.
• The Diamond Phalanx of Yuthuppa was the fifth to be destroyed, crushed and mangled by the Mad Sultanate during one of its invasions.
• The Emeraldite Phalanx, destroyed by Sheng Seleris.
• The Granite Phalanx of Melsorkorth has special magic for fighting against trolls. It now serves in the Heartland Corps of the Lunar Army. Apocryphal sources indicate that at least some elements of the phalanx were destroyed at Pavis in 1625.
• The Jasper Phalanx of Kalvostos in Naveria. This phalanx defeated the Bird People of Rinliddi for the Dara Happan Empire. It has special magic for fighting against the people of First Blessed. It now serves in the Heartland Corps of the Lunar Army.
• The Marble Phalanx of Mesavo in Naverias has special magic for fighting against Darkness. It now serves in the Heartland Corps of the Lunar Army.
• The Onyx Phalanx was the second to be destroyed, swallowed whole by Dragons.
• The Quartz Phalanx of the city of Katchpidi conquered Rinliddi for Emperor Urvairinus in the Gods War. The phalanx was the fourth to be destroyed when it was entirely consumed by the Crimson Bat at the First Battle of Chaos. Its destruction was one of the deciding issues for the other Traditional Regiments to acknowledge Yanafal Tarnils as their newest God of War.
• The Slate Phalanx was the third to be destroyed, defeated by the Carmanians. CarTavar the Conquerer, who recalled the regimental guardian Deksdeddius’ human form, then beheaded the god and mounted it atop his own fortress. This regiment had special magic against the Matti Kukur, the Hilltop Bandit People.

Each phalanx is highly disciplined and well trained. When maneuvering, a phalanx is composed of ten ranks, each of which includes 100 files at six-foot intervals. This leaves room for skirmishers to pass through the ranks prior to contact with the enemy. Just before this, the five rear ranks come forward into these gaps so that the phalanx presents a solid wall of shields and weapons 200 men long and five men deep. The men in the front rank are veterans and the best soldiers in the regiment.

The phalanxes retain the organization stipulated by Urvairinus. A regiment consists of a Century of a hundred soldiers; each Century is composed of nine Tens of nine soldiers and a Monitor, and one Ten of specialists: the Centurion, his deputy, three bodyguards and five healers. A Polemarch commands the regiment.

For maximum defense, a Stonewall phalanx adopts the ancient Sunstand formation: every soldier stands shoulder to shoulder, curving around to form a circle. The soldiers are divided into four outer groups with the fifth inner group at the center. This formation presents a bristling array of spears in every direction, with no flank to turn, and is especially effective when defending against cavalry.

The Stonewall regiments are numbered among the few units capable of setting pikes to successfully withstand a charge by heavy cavalry.

45 minutes ago, TRose said:

 Also there the Cohors equitata, Roman units that mixed cavalry and infantry. Also early German and Scottish cavalry fought in mixed units with each horseman having a light infantry man who fought with them.

The dimachae and Lunar Dragoons are a little different because they aren't a mixed unit, but one that dismount to fight on foot.

47 minutes ago, TRose said:

 Guess I get annoyed because more then a few fantasy game toss the term Dragoon around cause its sounds cool, not knowing its meaning.

I recall one particularly bad fantasy novel where the author thought Dragoon comes from Dragon...

On ‎4‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 6:34 PM, TRose said:

  First is the use of the term Dragoon by several Lunar units. For those who don't know Dragoon where named after a early fire arm(Dra Gunne) they used. So unless the Lunar Emire has an understanding with the Moatali , I doubt if they are using guns.

If you'd prefer a Classical term, there's dimachae, for soldiers trained to fight on foot who rode horses (a Macedonian term).

The Greek cavalry were divided into heavy cataphracti, and light, me cataphracti, with the dimachae who weren't just infantry or cavalry. There was a long history, going back to the era of Homeric warfare, to warriors riding (by horse or chariot) to fight when they dismounted, and this continued into the Classical era when hoplites could ride to the battle site, dismount, and form up in a phalanx.

2 hours ago, TRose said:

First is the use of the term Dragoon by several Lunar units. For those who don't know Dragoon where named after a early fire arm(Dra Gunne) they used.

Regarding the Red and Blue Dragoons, the term is used in the wider meaning of infantry riding horses for additional mobility.

2 hours ago, TRose said:

 Second was the use of Scimitar by most troops .. The scimitar is a cavalry weapon so no problem there. But heavy foot would want somethingmore hamdy and easier to swing in a formation.. For that a Greek style Kopus or Falcatta makes more sense and they have that curved blade look that Lunars love.

In the latest canon, scimitars have been replaced by kopis and sickle-swords; one Carmanian regiment uses rhomphaia.

2 hours ago, TRose said:

 Last is the percentage of cavalry in the army. For an army that supposed to rely on closed order foot, they have a cavalry percentage equal to many horse nomad armies.

Whilst there are many heavy and light horse units, they tend to be half the size of infantry regiments. The Lunar Army numbers 64,000 soldiers: 36,500 infantry, 18,000 cavalry, 5,750 magicians, and 3,750 siege and supply soldiers. The large number of cavalry are perhaps an outcome of the history of fighting Pentan hordes.

3 hours ago, kaydet said:

That sounds like good news to me. 

Martin, is your search for these articles a prelude to some wargaming in Glorantha, or just for personal interest?

I'm putting together a compendium of warfare in Glorantha, which will probably never see print. Presently working on a biography of Fazzur Wideread for an appendix.

7 hours ago, kaydet said:

The Zero, Second, and Fifth Wanes are missing from the Glorantha website, but it looks like they're all there on the Wayback machine. Thanks for the find, Martin.

Odd. I'm sure I found the 2nd and 5th on the Moon Design site yesterday, but it does have a large number of broken links...

Oh ******, I've just found Wane Zero on the wayback record.

http://web.archive.org/web/20050426083752/http://www.glorantha.com/library/history/hle-0wane.html

If I'd searched a bit more in 2013 I wouldn't have had to retype it.

Wane Six and Seven don't seem to have been published with any detail.

1 hour ago, kaydet said:

Is there a readily accessible source for the Redline History? Several sections are missing from the version posted on Glorantha.com.

Hmm, Wanes 1-5 start here...

http://www.glorantha.com/docs/hle-1wane/

I believe I retyped Wane 0 in 2013?

1 hour ago, kaydet said:

Is there a readily accessible source for the Redline History? Several sections are missing from the version posted on Glorantha.com.

I have the basic text of Wanes 0-5, and the brief paragraphs on Wane 6 and 7 (retyped one of the Wanes for Jeff a few years ago but I don't know if it is on the site).

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

The most important documents on Gloranthan warfare are the following:

• Dragon Pass wargame (old and new versions)
• Armies and Enemies of the Hero Wars (unpublished)
• Redline History of the Lunar Empire
• Wyrms Footnotes 15

The only source I haven't used, Jeff, (too much history, not enough military content) is the Redline History.

4 hours ago, Martin said:

I have sent this to you

Thank you! Very useful.

I'm trying to gather all the (reasonably) canonical material I can about Gloranthan Warfare. So far this includes the Dragon Pass boardgame, Cults of Prax, Wyrms Footnotes, Guide to Glorantha, HeroQuest: Glorantha, Pavis:GtA, Sartar:KoH, The Coming Storm, the Moon Design website, and a couple of online essays by Sandy Petersen. Plus a few things of my own. About eighty pages so far.

So thank you, again.

According to a search on the web, there used to be an article about the history of the Dara Happa available. It seems to have vanished. Does anyone have a copy they could send me?

On ‎4‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 7:13 PM, Kränted Powers said:

Here the drawing style makes the simple outfit look cool.

 

 

It may be 'cool' (though the style and anatomy is a bit awry) but it screams generic fantasy, with no underlying cultural context.

If she were better drawn and her costume was a little more realistic, with a better pose, then it might be okay as an RQ illustration.

Regarding the depiction of foreign cultures, there's a distinct line between cheesecake and realism. If you are depicting Inanna's descent to the Underworld and her confrontation with Ereshkigal after the keepers of the gates have gradually stripped her of her jewels and clothing, then her nudity is entirely appropriate; if you are depicting Sumerian priests and priestesses in procession to give offerings at the temple, then their nudity is appropriate; if you are depicting the Vestal Virgins giving their sacrifices, then nudity is not... Similarly, if you are illustrating Conan meeting Zenobia in the dungeons in 'Hour of the Dragon' then presenting her naked is contrary to the text. For that matter, in the majority of Howard's fiction Conan was well armed and armored, and well clothed (and not in a bearskin) but you wouldn't know it from most of the illustrations.

Thank you all: that's very useful.

The Dara Happans are obsessed with the number ten and consider it and its multiples to be the perfect number. There were once ten fabled Dara Happa elite regiments known as the Stonewall Phalanxes. All were active since the time of the Gods War.

Most of the Stonewall Phalanxes worship Polaris as their founder. They are each guarded by a star up in the Celestial City, one of the officers of Polaris.

• The Basalt Phalanx of the city of Iothaka rebelled against Emperor Erzanestyu in the early Second Age. Both the regiment and the city were destroyed, leaving only haunted ruins.
• The Beryl Phalanx of the city of Darleep has special magic for fighting against the Ram People of Talastar and Brolia. It now serves in the Heartland Corps of the Lunar Army.
• The Granite Phalanx of Melsorkorth has special magic for fighting against trolls. It now serves in the Heartland Corps of the Lunar Army.
• The Jasper Phalanx of Kalvostos. This phalanx defeated the Bird People of Rinliddi for the Dara Happan Empire. It has special magic for fighting against the people of First Blessed. It now serves in the Heartland Corps of the Lunar Army.
• The Marble Phalanx of Mesavos has special magic for fighting against Darkness. It now serves in the Heartland Corps of the Lunar Army.
• The Quartz Phalanx of the city of Katchpidi conquered Rinliddi for Emperor Urvairinus in the Gods War. The phalanx was entirely consumed by the Crimson Bat at the First Battle of Chaos.

Now, I know there are some (possibly non-canonical) sources for the missing four Stonewall Phalanxes, but is there any canonical source?

Esrolian house with basement and storage cellars. Family crypt/shrine in upper left corner. Cistern under the central courtyard.

Realized there was an important omission: the cellars.

By including the cellars, the 'Ernalda House' becomes virtually a cube.

I imagine the water table level in Pavis would determine how many houses could have a cellar, but the Pavis boxed set suggests there's a fair amount of underground excavation, and perhaps the Flintnail cult can waterproof cellars.

17 hours ago, Mankcam said:

Wow!. Yes you are both correct - I have always assumed that Elkoi had been inspired by Tiryns, but after checking the map the layout of Elkoi is almost exactly the same as Tiryns. No wonder I felt the cities of Balazar have 'Mycenaean flavour!'

Many illustrations don't show it, but subsequent archaeology has shown that many Mycenaean citadels had significant urban areas outside the walls.

The problem is that although the Orlanthi may look similar to Celts, Anglo-Saxons, Picts, Vikings etc. all too often that similarity is taken as being the same as, meaning that inappropriate cultural beliefs, behaviors, architecture, art and so on are taken as being Orlanthi. And of course even those real-world templates are based on assumptions and short-hand descriptions which can be wildly misleading.

9 hours ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

Lots to like here. The shop front, and small apartments make sense. high up small windows and roof terrace are characterful pavic/sartarite details. Have to say Glorantha is really coming alive for me again, after a long hiatus.  These discussions, details,  combined with the Sartar webcomic are really establishing the ancient mythical Glorantha again in my mind. Very cool thanks.

Please bear in mind that my sketches are not canonical.

Two Pavis variants of an 'Ernalda House'.

The first is a grand residence of an important and wealthy family; the second has been partitioned into two residences and a shop at the front, and a number of cramped apartments at the rear. The shop has access to the courtyard, and uses it as storage and an extension to the living quarters on the upper floor.

2 hours ago, g33k said:

Also:  in at least some supplements, I understand, Dwarves have guns of some description.  Is that muzzle-load, breach-load, or...?  Personal weapons (rifles, pistols) or only canon/artillery pieces, or both?   Etc...

 

Flintlock muskets; the Dwarf of Dwarf Mine has cannon.

2 hours ago, g33k said:

So. the Dwarves invented "iron" -- not "discovered" it as an ore, but "invented" it; presumably, a Heroquest (or more than one) was involved.  Any details (and in which book(s)) as to the process for creating iron in Glorantha?

 

It's a secret of Dwarf alchemy, made more mysterious by the fact that iron is also mined.

2 hours ago, g33k said:

What other "mytho-tech" do Dwarves possess that others don't (or at least, that Dwarves created, even if the "secret" has spread)?

 

Disorder mini-kegs, steam tech and dwarf constructs such as Jolanti (stone servants) and Nilmergs, semi-intelligent servitors. They have some, gremlins and gobblers, which are programmed to seek out and destroy any substances (such as gun-powder) that dwarves consider they have the intellectual property rights for. Whilst humans have purchased (at great cost) or stolen Dwarf secrets, it is apparent that most of their techno-magic are unknown to humans.