scott-martin

Issaries will buy it!

Now this is the stuff! There are riding animals that bear live young but they are less true horses than a grotesque lexical error concocted at great magical expense in the far west. Many "horses" you encounter in this fallen modern age are sadly of this type. And there were once other animals who occupied a similar niche in the six-legged south but they wandered off for some reason. Maybe we'll see them again.

People here need to start working dumber. There are all kinds of threads for this kind of intuitively valid "aha" discoveries that deepen and transform your Gloranthan experience. Like this one, for example. The timing is auspicious. Something wonderful happened in the former Holy Country on that day to mirror what was going on elsewhere. And now we need something dumb as well. Think, Martin, think . . . The "giant stabbing architecture" reported in a village near Alone is real, even though it serves no tangible deterrent function. What's really happening there is that the locals remember the time Soul Arranger put his foot on the trap but identify with the other end of the story. They're not exactly chaotic or evil. They just grow up really hating and fearing giants so all their houses raise a wooden spike to mourn the original encounter and express their hope that the next one will go differently. The question is who in that part of the world would preserve that level of antipathy for the cosmic giant. Have we found the last of "the original krarshtites?"

While Mister Bondaru was a visionary personality and an authority on body modification among other subjects, he could get a little "intoxicated" with his own rhetorical technique (Tarkalor was evidently impressed enough to memorialize the encounter) so perhaps we can give him the benefit of the doubt and say he was talking about the modern rune set. The Heortlings themselves have at least two traditions of skin writing going all the way back to Orlanth depending on whether you count from the needle or the more exotic brand.

Love it. Welcome to the bunnymen, Eoin. Hope you survive the experience.

It's a good question + interesting insight into their symbolic ecology. Weighing the documents, I suspect the parallel evolution hypothesis is the way to go. The GW team had easy access to the folkloric Dökkálfar / Ljósálfar split (and local versions echoed in Moorcock, Garner, Katharine Mary Briggs, etc.) and published information about the Brithini was scarce when the first Eldar units came out around 1988. The Vadelites as we know them were practically unknown even after the Genertela Box in 1990, evolving mostly on the mailing lists. There's a chance the GW team was consulted on the unpublished RQ2 western lands expansion (Mortal Lords) and were inspired by that experience, but I think the influence would've showed up first over on WH. The Daka / Grandfather axis is perpendicular to this brightside / nightside split among the would-be immortals.

Thank you as always. Yes, I was gonna say, keep it stupid here, people. The other threads welcome normal conclusions.

IMG there is one and it gets brought out a little at their weddings but few of the day-to-day beards really know much about it or like to talk about it. I'll let one of them decide if they want to share. (Their weddings are great. If you ever get an invite, take it.) Not many in Dragon Pass right now because it isn't good marketing from a political perspective. They might acknowledge the functional identity but don't emphasize it. Probably in Temertain's "philosophical" era the Knowledge Synthesists were jockeying for the ear of the king with grand unification theories but have since scattered ahead of the wind. Worldwide there are probably a few more here and there but the politics get less tense the farther you get from Dragon Pass. They could easily spawn another Monrogh if they wanted to but only your players know for sure. Most NPC beards are far too busy fretting about the defective aortist in court Teshnan or whatever to concentrate on anything important. The danger, of course, is that the Buserians do have a motive to prove the identity from their side and might concoct a compelling Truth Argument first. If I were an alert LKM type I would actually be much more engaged with trying to proactively prove that Buserian is someone else and inferior, and only incidentally a pale local shadow of the one True god. The exoteric answer is that they once had a local Issaries (II.20 on the Wall) whom Plentonius assigned "Lokarnos" but this is not the modern teamster. Modern Pelorian Issaries is just Issaries and modern Lokarnos is largely content to drive the truck except in weirdo zones like Sun Dome Prax, where they've reconstructed a figure more like the old II.20 and say he's equivalent to Fair Exchange. Of course within the empire all this is mediated through Etyries as far up the Yelm aristocracy as it gets. A somewhat more arcane response starts by asking people where they'd point to Larnste on the Wall and going from there. But it's usually bad form to remind the Dara Happan elites that you know more about their archaic religion than they do.

This is the moral of the story of the sword: the foundation of "ur" is "hu." There's probably a metallurgical mystery here as well. No dwarves on Brithos. EDIT and even humble "hu" is scary when you're the Dawn Age civilization who built its native munitions technology around "lo/sa" instead. While "lo/sa" can be hardened beyond conventional "ur" in intense alchemical environments normally you're going to get crushed.

The stars definitely start going out as long as the math is right. For all I know the nested exponential expression (7^7)^7 in the IO is really just 777 plus a lot of false positives. The problem is that a lot of the relic counts are off, with six collarbones over here and then nothing attested for the next several dozen pages. There must be at least "one" (myriad) St Timinit in the system!!

They cross-indexed the list in progress with the Irrippi Ontor "regional homeland" population projections and determined that there were at least 4900 more names on the list than people who have statistically existed S.T. This created its share of obvious theological challenges (can a wholly fictional person Ascend? and is our math off somewhere?) but the monks kept working . . . this was about 20 years ago I guess? So far, so good. Interestingly the overwhelming majority of the extra names rolled "other" for some reason.

All these lists are great. Imagine a desperate but determined band of scholar-monks like the Bollandists called to scavenge the lozenge collecting the deeds and golden legend of all the littlest saints, Sri Bob of the Perfect Canape attested to by "an old woman of the village of Khent, which I am told is in Ralios, or was." Probably Castle Coast people. I don't really know where else this counterreformation impulse is currently in vogue. Either way, their work probably ends right about the same time as the world, whereby hangs some kind of allegory. The "core list" I've seen reproduced in places like Tales 13 seems to be an Autarchy construct but might actually persist into early 16th century Safelster: Arkat (Liberator), Gerlant (Flamesword), Hrestol, Paslac, Talor (Laughing Warrior), Valkaro and Xemela. Together they form a kind of extended holy family around Arkat as the literal sword come to fulfill the teaching of Hrestol the prophet and since there are seven they might have helped someone structure their Malkionite week. Valkaro Goes To The East and the line of Arkat is not favored in the Middle Sea Empire so those names would drop out early. Talor might persist. People seem to like Talor. Mike Dawson argued (also in Tales 13) for Mabodinarne (Tolerant), Valsatar (Permissive) and Goriant (Involved) as three Arkat successor saints venerated in Dark Empire Ralios but this has probably vanished. Tales 13 also reflects a funny moment where Siglat (pbuh) is venerated but "for the father nothing" as Snodal is not. I always liked the nuance there. Somebody would probably say the Mothers are venerated like saints ("inspirations") in the historical Arrolian zone but I suspect a lot of that vanished in the Ban.

It does look like Greg's long cursive "m" there, although Dumb Theoreticians can productively leap to a suppressed connection between imperial Arkat's family cults and the garbled tale of the zaranistangi. I think David is interpreting from the pages you have. I like it because to me the important thing here is the answer to the riddle of the rock and what that means for Law as a rune.

I think these options converge in an Ancient West Thread. We can think of Arkat as a kind of unplanned Damol (DML for those keeping track). There were undoubtedly others in the early colony cities like Neleswal (triolini facing) and the north (Ygg's homeland and maybe HMKT's as well) where records are especially fragmentary. It's interesting about these particular runic encounters because "the ancestral Malkion" is codified as the burta of water and cold wind, which someone could read as a unifying symbol or collective representation of a synthetic confederation of once-separate tribes drawn from across the coast. The records reveal that the waertagite monopoly on western travel (much less the rest of the world) was not uniformly enforced in the Dawn Age . . . who can say how many sea peoples like "Helerites" pursued their own sea lanes in this era before ultimately getting caught on one losing side of history or another? Ygg is of course a god of ships. Even so, about 3 centuries separate Damol's creation from Arkat. Plenty of time for experimentation and failure on all sides of the sea, not to mention the multiplication of "demi-birth" success stories we don't hear about today because so many expired with the Age that spawned them. As a tangent it's interesting that there are no Mostalites known to be native to the island so interactions with that inhuman logic system would be a little estranged . . . but there were always elves in those days, not quite "krjalk" in any sense the word would ultimately accrue. On Jrustel it was the opposite.

I like what you're doing with this. He might have been given the name HLR when he married into the caste system to reflect the way as an obvious jock he was best suited to do HRL work. The original HRL people then suffer the tribulations suggested in the sagas and so need to be replenished via adoption, marriage or even conquest . . . in Arkat's day the "gwymir" classifier seems to have been prevalent at least among the grunts so this is a site of lexical tension / sorcerous innovation. Letting it decant in recent years I still believe all the genealogies are by definition "magical" diagrams for the TLR system and MNN(a) is a kind of transitive property, the symbolic vehicle they used to expand the population through both exogamy and parentage . . . not exactly a liberated gender scheme but still better than what you get with ZBR and far from the "mysogenist heresy" that we see echoed in currents like Rokarism. MNN(a) on her own has of course developed differently as heathen DR(M/N)(R/L) populations are brought in and pushed under, but that's not necessarily how her cult worked at the beginning. All of this confuses and maybe even annoys ZBR but that doesn't bother me.

Well, yeah. See, that's the thing about the blue man. His people lie all the time or at least are under no geas to reveal inconvenient Truth. Whether this is our normative Third Age "born of man and woman through Fertility" paternity is a trickier question similar to the question of who Arkat's father "really" was. I suspect his mother told him a lot of stories in that enchanted forest full of enigmas (proto-riddles) and they didn't always line up smoothly with one another. She had things she needed to figure out too. But the experience taught him what he needed to get the sword and go on to have the career he had. One more question people could ask: what were those barbarians doing on the island if life on the island is always so timeless, inviolate and lawful?

Having a hard time finding that file to confirm but it's just as well. The Nargan plot is basically confirmed in the Guide now (tribal broo are alien to Pamaltela, setting up a Southern Hero Wars thread one of these days) and interestingly p. 731 suggests that we should start dating the trouble in Karia from the fall of Whitewall . . . if so, the "Western Hero Wars Status Quo" for the East Wilds is already disrupted.

Maybe something from the "master plot" (thinking of the tentacles in particular) can be salvaged for Karia by casting the Hezel Darong movement as independent "chaos synthesists" trying to collect and recombine all the known strains into some horrible project with the same universal scope of the original tentacle plot but with a workable regional impact. Moboti Baru's shamanic orientation could be exotic by Central Genertelan standards, teaching us something about how chaos expresses in distant lands. For that matter, there's nothing that says Hezel Darong comes out of the Pelorian elites either. I wouldn't necessarily make either of them renegade Pamaltelans but they could carry an Artmal influence vast distances to balance a loper people / red sword renascence here. All it really takes is an imported charnjibber to create quite the ecological fable. If I were a sufficiently crazed Lunar adept with chaotic inclinations I'd probably find a lot of interest in Vustria, which might contain the wreckage of multiple pre-Arkat civilizations as well as that isolated Sun Dome nearby. And if I'm simply too chaotic for the empire in the early Hero Wars phase to handle, I can always come back when they're ready for me.

I'm reminded of a story.

Troll Gods says "Lorian . . . has become known to trolls as Sky River Titan" so that's probably the epithet you'll hear most often. Your monk might be initiated into a secret name but I don't know it.

Lashings! The smallest of fewmets counts.

Hail all, well met. I find myself on the quest for materials on various Arthurian publications and interest groups, and since this is where much of the world's expertise in that field is gathered, I thought I'd ask. There have been several Camelot recreation organizations, most flourishing in the U.S. around World War I as alternatives to what becomes modern scouting designed to provide moral education. There have also been at least a few more sophisticated groups for adult members, largely with an "esoteric" or academic orientation. These groups tend to be even more poorly documented than the first type. I'm looking for pointers on organizations like these, especially if they aren't on my radar yet. I've mostly got the Internet covered. Happy to share materials and leads I uncover if you will do the same. * The Knights of King Arthur / Yeomen of King Arthur / Brotherhood of David * The Queens of Avallon / Avilion * The Order of Sir Galahad * Knighthood of Youth * The Knights of the Holy Grail * The Order of Woodcraft Chivalry * The Pendragon Society * The Dragon Society

Love it. This is our last chance to see White Elf stuff, so why not have someone try to bring them back. Ditto all the detailed Elf Boats (and Blue Elf) lore that has circulated over the years but rarely found a home in the contemporary setting. Once they take to the sea again they are unlikely to abandon it immediately and we have a few decades to fill.

Love it. This opens a lot of deep doors. The first thing I'd say is that I too own that hat and maybe if enough of us work together we can get the results we want. But MGF whispers that the forests aren't united in their long-term agenda here. Yeah, reforestation is great (why we live in Maine) but they've tried it before and it didn't work. A lot of Elder Race mentality is a struggle between what we can call "neurotic" stereotyped patterns and the temptation to try something new for once. Some forests are only thinking as far as trying it again because maybe it will work this time. Others can learn . . . and they can take divergent lessons from the experience. We see this divergence in place by the Dawn when the Western Rockwoods force a primal split and the southern woodland starts developing separately from the forests surrounding Nida and the northern forest on the far side. You already have the primal split between Green and Brown at this stage, which they don't like to talk about except in simplifications and lies for children, which is what we are. IMG none of them is "the" original forest but they all claim to inherit the original type. Other hat wearers will naturally disagree, proving my point. So in this scenario simply sprouting all the seeds at once is only the initial phase of the plan all forests participating in the Quest signed off on. After that, things get weird and fractious when formerly isolated trees that had to communicate through dreams and intermediaries are once again in direct ecological contact. Hellwood's historical experience is not pleasant or forgiving. They're going to kill a lot of people. Arstola may be more conflicted and Erontree and Ballid's objectives may simply be too internally focused to fathom at this time. TLDR I think every forest will make its own choice and it will be exciting, but ultimately much of the new growth will be as transient as the illusory New Tama Forest the raccoons in one of my favorite movies conjure up as a last gesture and really not as a viable strategy at all. It's a dream experience for the meat people caught up in it, a chance to reflect on the Green Age one last time before we all move into the future. A gift. A revelation. Of course in the middle, it does interrupt and complicate the hero wars tension as you say. It's their nature. Unlike dwarves or trolls we still live in a symbiosis with trees to this day. Obviously some forests would not be happy with the current system but that dispute has been going on since Green / Brown if not earlier. I think of the various raccoon coping strategies, the suicide bombers, the pure land voyage, amusement park scams, moonlit urban raves. But that's just me. Sandy seems to believe the northern reforestation happens as a sort of intermission after the supposed End Of War and before the repercussions. Those people have historically worked with hsunchen. From your notes, this might be what motivates the Lunar elites to march down the Janube bearing burn in their wake. If Kartolin closes they need to open another route to whatever their secret interest in this part of the world is revealed to be. Then you come to the "enchanted" and estranged Forest of Kanthor, which has already grown itself back and is pursuing its ancient mysteries . . . foreshadowing the larger grow, an experiment or shape of things to come, we'll find out. The local elves had a curious aloof relationship with the lion kingdoms even in Hrestol's day and the Dawn map you show is evocative. I've always thought Seshna and Aldrya were direct competitors so the forest split early on between lion territory and elf territory. Froalar's heirs inherited the Seshna banner. The Talar Of The West carries an axe. As for fire, "give me fuel," Metallica says. Horrifying to some but morel, aspen and others have seen it all before.

Love it. That gives us something to work toward! It took the Aleister Crowley people a good 65 years after his death to get the academy to start taking him seriously as a cultural figure. Even JRRT is only coming into his real influence now, eight decades out. We can all lend a hand, edit an issue of Mythlore or whatever. It's too big for most of us to do on our own. That's a good enough use of time.