kalidor

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

@Zit Eiritha's tomb was likely built by her children or those gods around at the time - Tada, his sons, Genert, his sons, mostali, there's a huge list to drawn on. There's a dwarf city right next to the Eiritha Hills who in my opinion are the likely candidates. Just as most were flouncing around in tie-dye and hemp clothing talking to the animals doesn't preclude some being active in making, shaping and building. This was still the godtime.

Hi, 

About the entities  refugeed at the Paps. Were there gods/goddess of diferent elements (air, fire, earth...) and runes (truth, harmony, movement.....) Those gods/goddess  are no longer worshipped outside the Paps?. How can their cults be restored?

Thanks.

Hi everyone,

Does anyone know  Lodril's myths and where to find them? Not the name only but the story too. One of my players want to become a Heroe of the cult

Thanks everyone.

Hello David,

What are your thoughts about the three-bean-circus in your book? Are they gods/goddess with the harmony rune as their/his/her rune cult? What was his/her/their position in generts pantheon? Can we get cooperation/diplomacy charms/rune spells from that cult?

Thanks again.

19 minutes ago, David Scott said:

They were in Genert's Garden before the Star Captains came down to help fight Chaos in the Great Darkness. The Elder and Younger took Eiritha for a wife and she birthed the Twin Founders of the Sable tribe. The Twin Founders took the Sable protectress as their wife and she birthed the Sable Daughters who married the sons of Waha (khan dynasties) and each founded their own Sable phratry, who are the ancestors of the People (two legs and four legs).

Have a look at Eiritha's genealogy in Cults of Prax or the Cult Compendium. Replace Storm Bull and his sons with the the Elder and Younger and the Twin Founders. This explains why they are few Storm Bull cultists in the Sable Tribe.

They are a special case of Star Captain - one with a mysterious moon connection.

Wow! Impresive, truly. I thought they were star captains because of the sky and moon rune. So in generts pantheon were represented  all elements?

23 hours ago, David Scott said:

The Hidden Ancestor is the name I coined for the original Moon Rune cult found in the Wastes. It's one of the "Elemental" spirit societies of the Praxians. Each groups together similar spirits in the Praxian Tradition. You'll only find the Thirstless spirit society (Water rune) mentioned in HeroQuest Glorantha, the Burners (Fire), Sky Gazers (Sky), Shadow People (Darkness) and Hidden Ancestor (Moon & Sky) societies have yet to see print. There is no Earth or Air rune societies, Earth spirits are attached to cults at the Paps and the Air spirits are attached to the Orlanth cult in the Wastes. 

Hidden Ancestor? - the name comes from the fact that originally only one of the pair was visible. In the Second age, the Younger suddenly became visible to everyone, glowing the same yellowish-white color as its twin. Twenty eight years after the rising of the Red Moon, the twins started to change color, phasing harmoniously with the Red Moon. When the Moon is full the Younger glows a bright red. It slowly fades to its original yellowish-white color as the Moon enters its Dark and Dying phases, then returns to red as the Moon becomes full again. The Elder follows the same pattern in reverse, being yellowish-white on Full Moon days and red on Dark and Dying days. This is combined with their crossing the sky along the Southpath, taking three days to make the journey, then vanishing for a like period of time. The full 42 day cycle is well know to the Praxians.

The change in phasing occurred when the Hidden Ancestor was revealed to the Hungry Plateau Sables. Page 336 of the Guide tells us:

The Lunars call the Twinstars Erelia and Verelia, but the Praxians know them as twin brothers, sometimes twin sisters and some times twin brother and sister. Each pair had different names, but most just called them Elder and Younger.

The two societies met when the Hungry Plateau Sable returned to Prax in the first failed Lunar invasion of 1608.

To all intents and purposes the societies are identical, however - 

The Hidden Ancestor - The Younger provides charms that relate to the Moon Rune. Typically illusionary, contrary, polarising and changing. Occasionally Women or Mens magic and hunting magics are offered. The spirits themselves manifest as shimmering silver flames that can often bless and purify. There is no shaman path.

The Twinstars - The Younger provides charms that relate to the Full half phase of the Moon Rune. The Full half phase can mimic Fire rune charms like those of the Lowfires and Change rune charms that can alter the world in small ways. Occasionally Women or Mens magic and hunting magics are offered. The spirits themselves manifest as shimmering silver flames that can often bless and purify. The Twinstars have a shaman path and are also part of both the Praxian & Lunar tradition. As part of the Lunar tradition, members have access to other moon phase charms and its shaman are often part of Jalakeel's society.

 In Both, the Elder provides Sky Rune Charms. The Elder provides charms that relate to the Sky Rune. Typically leadership, battle and society. 

Both cults are integral to the Sable people as they are their ancestors. When the Lunars leave after the Fall of Pavis, the Twinstars society effectively vanishes and all Praxian sables return to the Hidden Ancestor (or die in the purges and backlash) although some are clearly changed. This changes the society imperceptibly to outsiders, although inside I believe they learn the shaman path and access to some unusual Moon magic.

There's more in this thread:

If they are their ancestor. Were they star captains who took wives from the sable tribe?

 

Hi everyone!!

What do we know about the "Hidden ancestor"/Twin stars? I cant find mythos about them.

Have fun!!

Hello,

I have a question from my players that i dont know how to answer.

Whats the difference between  the "balance power" of the moon rune and what Harmony rune does?

Thanks.

8 hours ago, David Scott said:

Simply put, not the all runes can be used by adventurers. Orlanth's rune's provide a very simple example of this. The Air and Movement runes define his two major subcults - Thunderer and Adventurer. Mastery however is the Rex cult, only the tribal leaders get to join that. The Orlanth Rex subcult isn't described in RQG, perhaps a future supplement (but the rune magic is described for completeness. Even then the Rex Rune Magic is Storm based, not Mastery.

But Conditions Runes are important in Glorantha, so the GMs will have to "complete" the "sets". That is what I am going to do. For example, one of my players want to do the "I fought We won" heroquest and if He is victorious I will give him the Star Heart (Mastery rune at PER+CHAR) as an ability. If he resist the Face he will get a mystic ability  and use of the Contrachaos spell power.

57 minutes ago, David Scott said:

Only the "Owner"of a rune can use its  full scope. Eg only Ernalda has access to all the powers of the Earth. Everyone else has access to only a subset of it. Have a look at HeroQuest cult writeup. This is very much evident there.

You are right of course. I was trying to explain that if your cult has the Issaries rune, that, does not make you a Trade god automatically. I try hard to call it Issaries rune or Exchange rune  instead of Trade rune to avoid years of God Learning mind-conditioning  

Ok, these are the spells in RQ for Ronance once his cult is restored and the runes to activate those powers. I dont have the new rules but i will go for the Issaries rune instead of Motion rune i simply put both because i dont know how the new rules work. There will be others of course but my heroes will need to heroquest to get them.

Pathway: (Issaries rune or Motion rune) We already know how this works

Bless Seeds: 1 Point, Stackable, Ritual (Earth rune). Ronance bless a number of seeds to cover an area equal to the Bless Crops spell, those seeds are put to "sleep" and will not rot while they are inside a sacred and sealed jar. Once they are spreaded on the ground (you dont need to plough it) they will grow as if they were under the effect of a sunripen spell. BUT you still need a fertile soil.

Expedition: 1 Point, Stackable, 12 hrs (Issaries rune or Motion rune). A number of mounts and its riders equal to 10% of your Motion rune have their daily movement (not combat) tripled.

Celebration: 1 Point, Stackable, 24 hrs (Issaries, Harmony or Earth rune) Ritual. For every point, a number of people equal to 10% of your harmony/issaries/earth will be affected (voluntary, not even resistance roll will be necessary). During the celebration even the poorest wine (even only water) and meal will taste delicious, the music, jokes and conversations fully enjoyable. Everyone will have a great time. You can remove yourself at the moment of your choosing.

On 2017-5-6 at 6:15 PM, soltakss said:

In the olden days, heroes and minor deities had One Rune, medium deities had Two Runes and Greater Deities had Three Runes.

I think Ronance should have Two runes, Movement and Fertility, Movement because he is a chariot god and travels Genert's Garden, Fertility because the earth between his tracks grows special and magical plants. I don't see his as a trading god, to be honest.

However, in your campaigns, Ronance sounds fine.

Hi, we know that the Issaries rune is more than simple  "Trade", is also "exchange" and "communication". A minor god as Ronance doesn't show the full powers of the runes he is associated with, but only some aspects. I think we usually, myself included, make the mistake to think that because a god has a rune he  can use every aspect of it. I don't think that is the case, maybe i am wrong. 

I also think that those "Roads" we all have read about Ronance, could be used as real roads in Gods Age but that its real purpose was more esoteric and mystic. After what happened to the Garden in Darkness i think that those "roads" were likely "Ley lines" of geomantic power. Those Ley lines were the conduits used by the magical life force of the earth to keep everything bounded and alive. Ronance thru his use of the Issaries rune was the Keeper of the Conduits. Where the Ley lines intersected   a "Node" was created, a place where life and magic was particularly strong creating a reservoir of sorts, and maybe that is the reason for oasis existence and survival. That will  explain why Ronance has not an easy existence in the wastelands but for Ronance's Well, which has strong mythical ties with him. When Genert was destroyed by chaos and the Garden was blasted to pieces, Ronances network was shattered. Waha reknitted those pieces he could in his Wahas Net Quest, but it was not enough (not offense Waha, you did a great job) the lay lines were not restored, they were dislodged, unconnected because what we have in the Wastelands is a Patchwork Land of different pieces that were reknitted by Waha. If Ronance were a "Motion Rune acces God" even a minor one, going outside Paps would not be such a great problem for him. And the survival of those Lay Nodes as oasis is the main reason because we can use the spell "Pathway" that give us the direction to the nearest oasis but not actual distance because those Nodes are not in the same place they used to be and the network is shattered.

That is the explanation that I have for the minor travel powers of Ronance (Chariot included), his lost fertility powers and his role in Generts Garden. Issaries rune is a mix of Motion and Harmony and in those minor aspects i think is the rune that suits Ronance perfectly well and explain why He can only keep some strength in the Paps and Ronances Well as the Guide says. And also would explain why Ernalda is so weak there.

In my Campaign Ronance is key to the partial healing of the wastelands, the heroes will have to retrace and remap  those "roads" that still exist and reconnect the fragments using the oasis as departure points. They will have to bring the network "online"  even before anything else. Later they will have to quest to bring back that daughter of Genert Scott wrote about in other commentary, and bargain with Asrelia to get access to soil spirits. Finally they will have to enact a Ritual of the Net to bind everything in the earth together and bring Ernalda with the support of Eirithia. That is only the "Earth part". The heroes will be true gods in the earth pantheon at the end.

Ronance in my new campaign in Glorantha:

First I am going to explain why i think Ronance's cult should be Issariess rune and Earth rune:

a) Ronance was a God of fertility in Genert's Garden but when Genert was destroyed and the Garden blasted to pieces, Tada's Loincloth was lost and so were the fertility powers of Ronance. When Waha reknitted those pieces of the Garden he could find, the land was not the same. Genert was gone and Ernalda couldn't come back. Ronance keeps little fertility powers of his own thanks to his earth rune link but that does not makes him a Fertility God as in God Time. My explanation is that in God Time he was not the SOURCE but only the "administrator-channeller" of Higher Powers (Ernalda-Genert), a seneschal of sorts. With the Source gone there are not fertility powers, only those innate to him ( bless seeds, but not bless crops, and little more). He never had in my opinion the Life Rune.

Also, he was a God of fertility but not a Movement God even if he has some movility powers, so i think is more apropiate to him the Issariess rune which is a mix of Change and Harmony related with travels and pathways. The Issariess rune is also the exchange and communication rune, not only physical but also magical.

c) Is my thought that through the Issariess rune he used the fertility power given to him according to Genert's rules and distributed them and the same rune gave to him his limited movement powers. As a son of Ernalda and as an Earth god he has access to the earth rune for minor fertility powers and command of serpent guardians and spirits.

Thoughts?

On 2017-2-26 at 3:11 PM, David Scott said:

He was born that way, arriving in Genert's Garden looking like that. Nothing to do with Prax or Uralda.

I don't think it means Primal Ox in Glorantha, it's just the way Greg came up with the name. Urox and Storm Bull are synonymous with big guy with bull head. Likewise he manifests in this way across Glorantha. KefTavar and his son Bisos clearly being another one of his bull forms.

So, Urox-storm bull (air+eternal battle) = bisos (air+ life), i suppose Bisos is a pre- Great darkness myths of the great storm bull, right?

3 hours ago, Harrek said:

Why some see Ronance so important in bringing back Genert?  I'm refining my PC's plan...

i hope someone develops earth pantheon myths and gods in the future and not only yelm-lunar-orlanth battle for supremacy.

56 minutes ago, David Scott said:

Looking at the Guide, page 116, The Golden Age:

Umath hadn't appeared so the Plant/Air combo was missing from this stage. At the end of this came the gods war. With the Air gods devolving into many types.

I think if any Plant/air combos exist then they are a form of elf. Perhaps living on top of clouds as @joerg mentioned.

Well, there is a magical  "Forest of the Winds" where yinkin and Velhara live in Storm Realm

4 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

Well the green age was when there was an abundance of such unusual plants because all the gods were getting in on this idea of a "plant" form. The air was probably born later, after the plant rune was "out of fashion."

Well... that is possible but there is no "after" in God Time. So i dont think that is the case. Unless Jeff or other "Canon Keeper" clarify the matter. 

1 hour ago, kalidor said:

Hi, I want to start this topic to collect examples of air gods/goddess and discuss posible myths about them. I will start with the "Growing Wind" that was was killed by Urox. Does anybody knows about it? also i cant find air gods with the plant rune, why? Was the "Growing wind" one of them?.

Is strange because there are darkness, water, fire and earth plants in myths but not air plants. Maybe they were gregged

Hi, I want to start this topic to collect examples of air gods/goddess and discuss posible myths about them. I will start with the "Growing Wind" that was was killed by Urox. Does anybody knows about it? also i cant find air gods with the plant rune, why? Was the "Growing wind" one of them?.

12 minutes ago, metcalph said:

 

yes, but going beyond that, if you see the void and not destroyed... what do you get? access to the Infinity rune? Time is a synthesis of entropia and existence so... can you refute the power of Time over you? You are not a God so you dont break the compromise you become a powerful mystic then

On 20/12/2015 at 2:47 PM, jajagappa said:

Regarding the Bad Uncles, and the Orlanthi initiation rite, see the Prince of Sartar web comic.  http://www.princeofsartar.com/comic/introduction-chapter-1/

Read through the first 6 pages of chapter 1, particularly pages 4 and 5 as these are the story of I Fought We Won.

http://www.princeofsartar.com/comic/4-meeting-the-second-son/

http://www.princeofsartar.com/comic/5-argrath-faces-evil/

You can also get the gist of it from the story of Hengall the Second Son in Heortling Mythology, p. 90.

"Hengall gathered his weapons and followed in his father’s path. He left his kin to fight the Predark, alone. He was not heard from again until six generations had passed. There, at the edge of the world and within sight of its doom, the Second Son met with Heort the Swift and told him of his great and terrible battle - I Fought, We Won. He showed Heort his wounds. He told Heort about the secret of the Star Heart and the secret of I Fought We Won battle. Every man relives Hengall’s lonely battle during his initiation rites. As a result, there are few sagas that tell of Hengall’s quest, for his secrets are words of power and cannot be passed on lightly."

And p.121 "Heort remembered that fight, and went on past the Second Son, and to the edge of the world. There he met the evil of his world, and won."

Also in the story of Heort and the Unity Battle in Heortling Mythology, p.104

"But the world did not end because of the great heroism of Heort. Heort was a Vingkotling who lived in the Ice Lands. To combat the evils of chaos he searched through broken places and forbidden powers to survive, or to know why he should not. He underwent the I Fought We Won Battle wherein he personally resisted Wakboth. When he returned to the world it was warmer, less broken and Elmal was quite brighter. This began the Grey Ages. Heort saw that Wakboth was not dead from the Spike imploding. He was marching to destroy them all, the last survivors, in Dragon Pass. Heort went among the other creatures of the area, and he made peace and plans with them. They too, it seemed, were blessed by their own inspirations to resist chaos. Men, trolls, elves, dwarves, beasts and the feeble spirits and lesser gods all joined to fight Wakboth. They destroyed his army, sent the god reeling into Prax. This is the famous Unity Battle, and they chose their strongest leader, named Ezkankekko, to lead them."

There's also a good essay by Greg in that work on p.122.

"The martial struggle of Heort is appropriate to his role as warrior and culture hero. It is the manifestation of some raw masculine powers of violence, destruction, and general active, energetic role. In the IFWW these prove ineffective, the individual is destroyed, yet some part struggles on and, surprised, the chaos opposition is destroyed, runs away or dissipates. The subsequent reconstruction of the Hero is based on an acknowledgment of the essential masculine role (I Fought), but it encloses the Secret just learned (We Won). He rearms, then goes forth and rescues his wife from the Ice Palace, and teaches the secret to the men of his tribe."

Also see Greg's article on Orlanthi initiation here which pretty well outlines the steps: http://www.glorantha.com/docs/orlanthi-initiation-rites/

• They travel into the world of myth, into the broken world that is the Great Darkness
• Whatever gods are there, depart and the heroes are on their own
• They must find and follow the path of the Second Son and reach the edge of the world

"The idea is to get as close to the Great Secret as possible. This is revealed through the myths of the voyage of Heort and Harmast, who walked on the trail of Second Son. Its shallow stages include:

• Confrontation with Ancestors
• Confrontation with Ancestral Enemies
• Confrontation with Mirror Self
• Confrontation with the Devouring Monster

Almost everyone experiences and learns something at these. These are the external and superficial things that make the men to be members of their bloodline and clan. Then it goes deeper:

• Meeting with Second Son
• Meeting with Star Heart
• Confrontation with the Devil’s Face
• Confrontation with the Void

These are the things that people experience differently. Most people get to the Second Son, who explains to them the things that lie beyond. Most people are content with that.

But some will have to go farther, and they will see, perhaps touch or (more rarely) even get their own Star Heart and place it into their breasts.

A rare individual sees the place where the Devil’s Face appears and most of them then retreat.

Some confront the Face and survive, emboldened and empowered far beyond normal humanity.

Survivors of the Void are rare, for it dissolves the soul of most who dare to look on it."

Essentially, you have up to 8 stages in the quest.  You probably need to reach the Confrontation with the Devil's Face to complete I Fought, We Won as a quest.

Hope that helps.

What power can you get doing this heroquest and resisting the void?

8 hours ago, scott-martin said:

Not so disturbing in the Artmalite context because they have Anellha to mediate the relationship between Hell/Sky and Sea/Sky. Actually Shargash has a sister too now, when we think about it. I wonder if things would go differently if he had to fight a flood again. Either way, it's striking that Tolat (or at least the sword, which some sources identify as a gift to the family from otherwise fugitive "Promalti smiths" of the cardinal south) is associated with buoyancy and so resists Sshorg where his Pelorian analogue fails. 

(Trimming a whole lot of false leads to keep this iteration of the thread a little more robust.)

Looking back at the lore, I can't help but notice that as Melib looms larger Trowjang recedes. Tolat in Trowjang seems to be the obvious "love and war" Amazon cult and I'm sure they have a story of how they came to live without men. Tolat in Melib, on the other hand, is explicitly a Loper People survival -- brought with the sword by refugees from the disintegrating Artmalite civilization -- and that's also a place where they remember Blue Moon worship as bifurcated along gender lines. 

Maybe Trowjang is the place where the gendered mysteries (a) broke down (b) developed to support only Tolat without his twin, only female worshippers and no men. But this is probably one of the deepest enigmas of the southpath, waiting to get us into trouble.

But Tolat worship was definitely imported to Melib at least, so if the archaic Abzeredites knew the red god by that name before the floods and Loper People incursions, I'd be surprised. Maybe they recognized him as something like Shargash as part of that Avalon Hill era pan-solar cultural belt that has now receded. Or maybe they acknowledged him as the nebulous Unvoreth.

When the proto-Brithini went roving, they apparently met the red god first as Tolat[h]. You know, it's funny but with so many Blue Peoples to choose from I never thought of Artmalites marrying into the West, but there's a reference to Cathora as "the daughter of the king of the Fralari nation," which may well be some slight garble of Froalar and his line. It would definitely explain how people like Xeotam learned what little they know about this mythos and why Tolat[h] is acknowledged (as judge of the underworld) in that weird Hrestolite story. 

Jagekriand seems to be a native Orlanthite name for the planet, which is a god they don't like. I like the "Jaga" root pointing toward Saird, especially since Jajagappa loves dogs (bad dogs figure often in Heortling grudges) and rules a hell. Would not be terribly surprised if similar cults persist in Henjarl to this day.

"Hamstringing" and crippling imagery comes up a lot with Southpath entities -- Mastakos obviously, the broken family of Artmal, a fleeting First Age reference to "Orlanth's family" taking down Shargash [sic] by hamstringing him from behind -- so I want to look for an Elmal (I'd almost say "Emil" but that's another labyrinth) or other wounded little sun there also. 

On the other hand an extensive list of defeated enemies of Shargash studiously does not mention any time when he beat the bat or the blue moon. Maybe they're his sisters too.

Another strange thread running through a lot of these gods is their affinity for the cosmological scale of "giants." Isn't there a reference somewhere to Jagekriand as a rogue planet, or did I dream that?

Is mastakos known to the praxians as Emilla? same powers? if so, mastakos is more complex than the orlanthi version of him/her. Did praxians know about him/her from the Loper People?

17 hours ago, David Scott said:

At the moment my thoughts are that Pent has a land goddess.

Yes, Storm Bull is a huge problem, the Raging Storm batters the land to keep the chaos down. Storm Bull has no water aspect, so heler never really gets beyond Vultures County.

Great explanation David! thanks! your insights in this matter are great. Also your insights about the role played by water spirits holding together these places when the earth is weak are great.

On 10/3/2017 at 10:40 AM, David Scott said:

Yes. The defining role of nearly all the Praxian spirits is that they helped a group of people survive. Waha honours them with a place in Praxian society - a spirit society. 

Hi, Are Ragnaglar, Thed, Eiritha, Tada and Generts Garden linked? I read sometime that Ragnaglar could be the first air god to live in the Garden before The Bull coming.

On 1/5/2016 at 9:30 PM, David Scott said:

Chris Klug over on G+ asked for a list of Praxian gods with their runes. This prompted me to update my work-in-progress structure of the Praxian Tradition that I'm using for the Prax book. Some of the societies are mentioned in HeroQuest Glorantha, and this PNG puts them into the structure I'm using.

It seems that Helpwoman is the same deity that  Votankis Hearth-Mother. Am I right? Both found Foundchild and nurtured him, she helped humans in the great darkness.

17 hours ago, David Scott said:

To honest I haven't really looked at the Basmoli in any depth. The reason is that the Basmoli (like all Hsunchen) are pure animists and we haven't really had a chance to look at how the transform magic works with the tradition.

Main references

Pavis GtA page 50 (notes they have the Beast Rune)

The Guide page 18 notes the three Basmoli Populations - Prax, Ralios, and Pamaltela. Page 27 has Praxian details, page 150 notes the Beast & Mastery Runes. There are other snippets spread about.

Borderlands and Beyond has many references, page 9 has Tada and the lion dance and many other snippets.

Earth and Beast is incorrect, it's Beast and Mastery.

Basmol is a spirit, there is one group I think in Ralios that worship him as a god.

Basmol is the Basmoli aspect of Lion Gods. Like Bisos and Storm Bull are aspects of the Bull god.

The only real validation of Basmola is in Greg's unfinished novel - In a myth call how the peace was made "Basmola, who was the Mother of Lions"  

 

So, if i play a durbaddath rune lord in prax, can i claim leadership over a band of basmoli as kin?. thanks.