Lloyd Dupont

21 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

That will certainly make a difference, and will probably reduce the value of DEX unless at the extremes. For instance if the average DEX is 10, a PC has more incentive to bump a 15 DEX to a 16, than to bump a 14 to a 15. On the plus side this means you could fine tune the importance of DEX by adjusting the die size. The bigger the die the less important DEX will be and vice versa.

BTW, if you wanted to include things like combat experience/coolness under fire, you could have characters initiative die increase as they get more experienced. I'm just mentioning that to bring it to your attention, not to endorse such an idea. 

Good thoughts for thoughts!  

21 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

That would seem to make INT value only to those with PSI powers. Now if everybody has some level of PSI in your setting INT has a lot of value, but if it is rare, then INT seems mediocre. 

Yeah, INT that does limit spells seems not that useful... It's why I want it to limit Tech Knowns and use Tech known as a biggie for crafting / repairs to make it somewhat great again!

21 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

What if you treated them more like hero points that could be spent to bump the results of social contests (and possible science/tech type contests)? For instance a character with a 15 APP could have 15 points to spend when making social rolls during a game session. These could either be spent one for one after the fact, or bump success levels or whatever.  The idea being that the pretty (APP 15) girl behind the wheel of an aircar, who gets pulled over for doing 1000 kph in a 700 KPH zone will have a better chance of talking her way out of a speeding ticket.

Interesting..... That's a bit much of an advantage though...

FYI I like social conflict (and conflict pool) in principle... But apart from a small "court case / apparition", where it worked well.... (each roll being an argument, with possible damage bonus depending on the argument) I had not much success with using it. Not that I couldn't roll the dices, use pool and reduce them, I had trouble narrate it well in a convincing and useful fashion, like HP in a fight for instance...

INT is initiative for powers (psi power in that case) and limit the number of tech known. Also if the character drop on a fantasy planet... they could be awesome spell caster!

DEX is combat initiative

STR is bonus damage ... every 16 points! 😮 

CON is HP

also planning to have each characteristic being used for experience roll, depending on the skills, instead of the blanket INT-10 bonus.

Overall attribute are not that much influential except INT/DEX for initiative.. (and known tech limit).

I plan to add a D6 to initiative to add some randomness....

Oh yeah, occasionally they are used on the resistance table.. mostly CON, DEX, POW I think...

Maybe APP/INT are occasionally "HP-like pool" for social conflict, though I am not entirely too convinced I shall use them...

Thought it further....

Parts + Fabricate skill to repair or build when the tech is known (using INT slot)
Parts + MIN (Fabricate, Science) / 2 to build or repair when the tech is unknow but below highest known

(note: MIN(skill1, skill2) is how skill are usually combined, like horseriding and fighting)

Parts + MIN (Fabricate, Science) / 2^N, to build or repair when the tech is unknow higher than highest know. where N is the tech level different between known and needed tech.

And science will be kept to not much use in game otherwise, except asking diagnostic question and answer and the occasional odd requirements...

Seems right...

As for making parts from raw material... MIN (Fabricate, Science), normal roll...

Yeah I thought I should tweak it to make INT and DEX more expensive...

Or a simplified solution, with (tech level  - 5 ) x2 point
if attribute < racial average: 1 improvement point = 2 attribute points 
if attribute < (racial average + racial max)/2:  1 improvement point = 1 attribute point 
if attribute < racial max:  2 improvement points = 1 attribute point 
else:  3 improvement points = 1 attribute point 

Atgxtg... I got an idea... which seems complicated to explain but involve only very simple math (me think) and scale with racial difference...
Have a look!

This is about improving health / well being / attributes!

I give Tech Lech Level - 5 improvement point potential, i.e. 8 point for the planned campaign's character

With this they can spend improvement points (and credits and time) at a clinic to improve one attribute to the next grade

Attribute Current Grade | cost to next
0-3 | 1
4    | 2
5    | 3
6    | 4
7    | 5   (i.e. up to grade 8 )

how grade is related to attribute is the grade is the D6 value, here are some examples:

Grade | 2D6+6 | 3D6 | 3D6+6 | 4D6 | 4D6+6
1          | 8          | 3      | 9          | 4      | 10
2          | 10        | 6      | 12        | 8      | 14
3          | 12        | 9      | 15        | 12    | 18
4          | 14        | 12    | 18        | 16     | 22
5          | 16        | 15    | 21         | 20    | 26
6          | 18        | 18    | 24        | 24    | 30
7          | 20        | 21    | 27        | 28    | 34
8          | 22        | 24   | 30        | 32    | 38

so, for example, an human with a STR of 12 to 14 should spend 2 point to get to 15, and then 3 more (up to 5 total) to get to 18

Well I have to check the suggested book tonight when I get home... (at work now, oopsie)

But I got an idea...
I might go with Fabricate (xxx) and Science (xxx)

Fabricate will build & repair know and unknown tech (harder when unknown, i.e. not in tech using INT slots).
Fabricate would use repair part that have to be tailored for the device. Or scavenge other similar device (2 broken = 1 working)

Science could identify a device or phenomenon, and gather data. All not that much needed in play. It could also could help make part for any devices (again, harder if the tech is not now) (from part of same tech branch, i.e. biology, physics, power..) or from raw material in a lab / factory (conversion rate to the GM appreciation).

On one hand this feel a bit contrived... On the other had I think in game it would be fine... The ship will have part for its component, so o biggie... But sometimes they might run out (or be destroyed) or be in a primitive place, and they would have to work the science skill to make the part to build / repair the device they need, adding to the gravity of the situation...

How about that?!

Some good ideas there.. But I need to think a bit more how to formalise them....  

Atgxtg, you inspire to consider those changes.. will see after a few nights sleep

    Biotech (once acquired, can't be changed) (removed the attribute change)
        8 : Fashion Hair/Skin/Eyes (+4AP, +20% disguise)
        8 : Eagle Eyes (reduce range penalty by 1)
        8 : Cat Eyes (dark light vision)
        10: Graceful +20% DEX skills
        12: Regeneration (heal 1 step faster, grow back limb if hacked)
        15: Psionic Power & Meditation unlocked
        
    Biohacking (cost money) (well the other thing cost money too hey!)(bonus can be moved around multiple time)
        (Tech - 8 ) x2 points to spend on Attributes (no slots)
        8  : 1 point  => +1 STR/CON, 2 points => +1DEX
        15: 3 points => +1 INT
        17: 2 points => +1 POW
 

The rest of it

    Tech Level: # slots
        8 : 2
        11: 3
        14: 4
        17: 5
        20: 6

    Nanotech
        8 : Immune Nanite ++ (+6 in CON saves vs poison, sickness, disease, RAD)
        8 : Health Nanite ++ (+5 in HP)
        8 : Drug Gland ++ 
        11: Biobattery ++ +5MP reserve
        12: Cortical Assist +20% INT skill
        12: Relentless (succeed Endurance roll for staying conscious, +6vs Stuns, can stand up when between 0 and -10 for up to 10 rounds)
        13: Cyberlink 
        13: Psionic Chip ++ (1 power)
        13: Biorecorder (hours of full sensory data or just raw data)
        15: Awareness Mod ++ (+1 perception roll when needed)
        18: Enhanced Cyberlink ++ (extended consciousness, multiple body)
        
    Cultural Bonuses
        19: Can pay for 1 enhancement once: Psionic, HighGravity, Creative, 3 Luck (i.e. 3 advantage roll per session)
 

Prothesis: .. still thinking ...

8 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

I think the simplest approach would be to scap rolling attriubtes and just point buy everything. THen you just give the players a sheet with all the options listed.

It's tricky here.. the different playable alien races have different dice numbers.. so, arguably some are better, but I usually give an ability to other races, so, hopefully, it's a toss up!
Anyway attribute are not that game changing except for the sweet high initiative power of DEX

You gave me an idea.. I might also have, on top of the ideas above, have credits buying of attribute point...

The total improvement might be limited to something like (tech level - 8 )x2, i.e. +10 for the players, and cost increasingly more...
DEX/CON/STR cost 1 point for point, INT cost 3 point and POW 2.. something like that?

Although this make me want to remove the characteristic increase slots above, and then this will be in opposition to MoO tech: "Evolutionary Genetics: Heightened Intelligence", which was my INT+6 for a level 15 slot..

mmmm.....

Atgxtg I was kind of trying to do something like that

But this had 2 problems:
- character creation was becoming tedious (I simplified character creation as much as possible while still being a BRP like game)
- cross referencing it with a tech level table is difficult. Making it somehow match MoO table, even more so.

I quite like my latest iteration just before your post (only 2~3 thing to chose) and each clearly impactful!

At any rate I give +4 ability at character creation already!  
Though perhaps I should give a bonus based on tech level... (not that relevant since it won't change, but saying it highlight the benefit of high tech! )
 

First question: Can you use repair multiple time to get an item back to full functionality?

Then,

For my Scifi (Master of Orion) setting I am working on my tech tree. And I plan on using INT to learn discovery, much like INT is used to learn spell in fantasy game. A repair without the appropriate Tech known will be hard (skill%/2), if lower level than known or impossible.

Now I wonder how science and learned tech could work together?! (particularly when one does NOT know the relevant discovery) Is science even useful for the average adventurer?!  😮

I am thinking science could be used for:
- one off repair (no retry)
- identify the principle (i.e. needed tech to be known)

A bit mild... any other idea to make the skill more interesting?
I was thinking  to use it to build prototype, somehow... but It should clearly work less well than repair to make a fully functioning item. Not quite sure how to go about it...

Also what skill should I sue if one want to build a new something... It's not repair but it's close.. it's also close to science...

Alright I got a MoO inspired idea that allow for diverse yet expedient customisation.

Depending on the tech level of the clinic there is a number of augmentation slot available. Each augmentation take 1 slot. Some augmentation (++) can be taken multiple times. Each augmentation is related to a tech on the tech tree (TBD) (for installation and repair) (level in parenthesis)

    Tech Level: # slots
        8 : 2
        12: 3
        16: 4
        20: 5

    Nanotech
        12: Cortical Assist +20% INT skill
        8 : Nervous Assist ++ +3 in DEX SR
        13: Cyberlink 
        18: Enhanced Cyberlink ++ (multiple body) (extended consciousness)
        8 : Immune Nanite ++ (+6 in CON saves vs poison, sickness, disease)
        8 : Health Nanite ++ (+4 in HP)
        8 : Drug Gland ++ 
        13: Psionic Chip ++ (1 power)
        
    Biotech
        11: Biobattery ++ +5MP reserve
        8 : Fashion Hair/Skin/Eyes 
        10: Enhanced STR ++ +4STR
        10: Enhanced CON ++ +4CON
        10: Enhanced DEX ++ +4DEX
        10: Graceful +20% DEX skills
        11: Psionic Power & Meditation unlocked
        8 : Eagle Eyes (reduce range penalty by 1)
        8 : Cat Eyes (dark light vision)
        15: Super Intelligence (INT+6)
        15: Psionic Power unlocked
        17: Superior Mind (POW+6)

    Prothesis: TODO.. something like cost HP & MP (permanent) (no slots) but give bonus... 
ex:
    Duraskin: -2HP, -2MP, AP 5 (bonus depends on tech)
    DuraLimb: -3HP, -3MP, +5(mechanical)HP, +2STR (bonus depends on tech)
        
      
    Cultural Bonuses (no slots)
        19: Can pay for 1 enhancement once: Psionic, HighGravity, Creative, 3 Luck (i.e. 3 advantage roll per session), +6CON/STR/DX/INT
        
On Serious Wound (using general HP rule) each Nanotech & Prothesis roll on the table (inspired by M-Space companion here ) 
    Target D10 Effect   
    Cyber 1-4 No effect
    Cyber 5-7 Disable D6 rounds
    Cyber 8-9 Disabled D6 minutes
    Cyber 0   Augment disabled
    Prosth 1-4 No effect
    Prosth 5-6 Disable D6 rounds
    Prosth 7-8 Disabled D6 minutes
    Prosth 9-0   Augment disabled

Maybe also... once chose biotech can't be changed.. And should move some more to Cyberware

You know what? 
I have it too! And succinctly read it a few month back when I was looking for idea for the first time...

(then I kind of did nothing for a while... back to it now )  
It's not quite I have in mind... But it has some malfunction rule I see now... cool!

Oh, and yes, I forgot the psionic cybertech! good point! Should be available somehow, me think...

An idea I have.. but I am afraid it might turn uselessly complicated...

Is to give cybertech "Mechanical HP" (they both reduce normal HP and add mechanical HP).

This mechanical HP would susceptible to electromagnetic gun (which bypass armor, incidently) and would not heal, but need repairs.
What I am not too sure of is how to handle partial mechanical HP loss....
But total loss would disable all cyberthingy.....

This is all newts to me! 😮

Genius!

Sounds like something inspired by a true story!  

Well... One one hand you are right that I am indeed not looking for too big a change...

However, and to be nit-picking, I have one very strong totally transhumanist element on my list I believe: The level 2 cyberlink

Cyberlink (1+2MP/extra body) (lvl 17) shared consciousness

And also the level 19 mutation which turn the character into a psionist or lucky.. or greatly enhanced in some way...

And while at no time the character becomes god like or even wizard like (though psionic power is pretty cool).. I would argue having multiple bodies is pretty rad and totally transhuman as you defined it!

Not too mention that by now they have android that could be partly organic...

And also, I need to add somewhere brain in a jar.. and upgrade jar to mechanical / android / organic body...
with maybe some perception and STR/DEX skill malus.. initially (at "low" tech level)

Anyway I was nit-picking... not trying to turn the characters into some kind of super entities in anyway.. Well except for the multiple body thing, but this is kind of a given once mind-machine interface is here...
Plus it's tech level 17+ so it's for the NPC  
Also I am still wondering whether I should make that an ordinary level 17+ tech (or 21+?) or an exclusive/unsearchable tech (exclusive to the Antarian, that is), much like the Death Ray...

It's a long post.. so I made 2 visible parts...
the intro explains where I am coming from
the lists is the part that needs commenting!

Intro

For my Master of Orion game I am trying to come up with some transhumanist augments at the moment. And yes I did check out River of Heaven and New Horizon. Oh and also Sabre SciFi edition.

I made a much reduced list (compared to those games) because I am not really that interested in cyber/bio/nanoaugment, or cyberpunk genre... but yet, it still is the future and I want to make people better through technology!  
(plus hey, an alien / scifi character marooned on a fantasy planet, with all its devices broken will still keep a technological advantage that way , might do that one day)
And while I am happy with a small number of mild enhancement, I want to give enough choice that all player character can be potentially different!

My main authoritative source of inspiration are the Orion techs:
http://www.moo3.at/moo2/technologies.php
(I show both MoO research cost and my personal level rating from 5 to 21)

Of interest Neural Scanner at "level 400" (aka level 9) (the research point first column)(machine that read mind), Telepathic Training at 900 (aka level 11), Cybersecurity Link at 1500 (aka level 13) (mind-machine interface), Psionic and Super Intelligence at 2750 (aka level 15), Virtual Reality Network at 4500 (level 17) (full sensual immersion), Evolutionary Mutation at 7500 (level 19) (gain a new trait for your race, might let the player chose if I play at that level, but canonically it's one choice for the whole empire)

For the record the player's tech level will be 1500 / 13

The Lists

Many augments will have an MP cost, permanently reducing base MP. Hey it's tiresome to have alien device / go beyond normal ability and that reduce life force permanently. They also have an operation cost (in credit) but it's not mentioned here. Those are the limiting factors. And also being in a civ with a high enough tech level.

Starting character will start with like.. maybe 4 augment point? Or tech level -9. The rest they will have to pay.

I hope my note / abbreviation make sense, it's straight from my scratch pad and.. it's time for bed...

    Nanotech
        Cortical Assist (+10/15/20/25 INT skills%)(2 MP) (lvl: 12/15/18/21)
        Nervous Assist (+2/4/6/8 DEX SR)(2/3/4/5 MP) (lvl: 8/12/16/20)
        Cyberlink (1MP) (lvl 13) (&shared sensory information, 1 machine at a time and lose awareness : -60% perception)
            Cyberlink (1+2MP/extra body) (lvl 17) shared consciousness (limit the number of drones that can be operated at once)
        Immune Nanites (+3/6/9/12 vs all poison/sickness, double vs nanites) (use 3MP) (lvl 7/11/15/19)
        Health Nanites .....
        DrugGland (1) (L9)
            - adrenaline, fasttime
        Prosthesis (cost HP but give HP back that need repair skill to heal, MP, increase STR, natural weapon..) (Lvl9+)
            - arm:
            - leg:
            - skin: (natural armor)
    Biotech
        Biobattery (L9,13,17,21)(cost 1MP)(provide storage for 3,4,5,6 MP, that do not regenerate)
        Fashion Hair, Eyes, Skin (0MP, Lvl 9)(+2AP each, +20% disguise)
        Enhance STR/DEX/CON Augment: each augment +2 cost 1MP, tech level 6+, max augment is tech level-4
        CatEyes (thermal vision) (cost 0)(level 6)
        Eagles Eye (reduce range penalty bies 1 rank) (cost 0)(level 6)
        Gracefull (+10/15/20/25 DEX skills%)(2 MP) (lvl: 8/12/16/20)
        
    Cultural Bonus
    Level 11: 20% to learn 1 PSI power, cost only money & time. can try multiple time, but limited to 1 (random) power
    Level 15: Can pay for 1 Mental Enhancement (once), either +6INT or +6POW and unlock psionic/meditation
    Level 19: Can pay for 1 enhancement once: Psionic, HighGravity, Creative, 3 Luck (i.e. 3 advantage roll per session), +6CON/STR/DX/INT

11 minutes ago, ThornPlutonius said:

"MoO"?

Master of Orion... An old game popular with us oldies. In a few word, it's like Civilisation in space. But exactly 5467 times better!
Currently struggling to come up with a nice biotech and cyberware list... Cross referenced by tech level.. 😮 

It's important to make a tech level based table.. 
Not because the player can eventually get higher tech (unlikely and rare) but because it helps flesh out alien civilisation / protagonists, and occasionally reward the player with an exceptional goody!  
Maybe they can even find a super advanced wreck... and dominate their neighbourhood with it!  (while it still runs...)

11 minutes ago, ThornPlutonius said:

Congratulations for making the needed changes and finding your way out of the bad times!

Thanks! It almost took half a century.. 😕 but here you go, better late than never!  

Haha.. I heard about those, beware of bridges! Because what live under a bridge hey?  

Thought I wanted to brainstorm my soul searching about new political system sometimes  
It's even relevant to Master of Orion, what do those future society look like? Damn if I found a convincing description! 😕 
Going with the half utopia half distopia for now...

The good news is the bad times are over (diet and lifestyle changes) and back into homework
Currently BRP+MoO and maybe some programming later...

I might have to finally join Reddit hey!  

Though I was thinking to do it for politic and warp drives! 😛 

You nailed it Rosen!  

The answer was in the column I did not copy (yet) in my excel document: location

The modern & advanced full body armor include the head, so this is definitely a mistake...

trying to make an equipment table across 21 tech level where our modern days are only level 4! 😮