French Desperate WindChild

On 3/24/2024 at 2:48 AM, Ali the Helering said:

Since Broos can breed with anything, I should imagine he is linked with whatever animal is locally derided.

I agree

Imo, Thed is the mother of the broos in the same way that Stormbull is the father of herds.

There is no reason to see "previous" Thed as the mother of only goats in the same way that Stormbull is not the father of only cows

the simple way I see is there was a couple of herds ancestors. The father is Stormbull, the mother is Thed.

Then Thed was a victim of Ragnaglar or voluntary join her husband's brother in evil acts. Curse is not based on intention but on acts , and she was cursed.

That may explain why Stormbull reacts as he reacts.

Another option is there is no "previous" Thed, but only one herds storm parent. Maybe this parent was abused by Ragnaglar and "split"

one part reacted to this evil act by developping a terrible hate of chaos. And this part used the most brutal form of herd : the bull. This part is Storm bull who wants to destroy his tormentor

the second part reacted to this evil act by developping a terrible perversion to seduce (then to protect herself against) her tormentor. This part used a perverted form of herd: the broos. This part is Thed who wants to "fix" the injustice she lived by sharing her experience to any innocent people, like she was before she met the mad god.

15 minutes ago, svensson said:

the Non-Covenant heretics

I m not sure they are seen as heretics. I mean they (or their  ancestors) where not here, not included in the covenant. They are outsiders. Of course {any pejorative word of your choice} not because they don't worship Waha ( why should they ? they are nothing for him) but because they are nothing, they are prey or danger, strangers, barbarians, etc.... Of course individuals may change the view, but more as an individual exception confirming the rule.

In the same way that a Rathori would say that a Malkioni is a stranger, a barbarian, nothing for his god-spirit-ancestor so a prey or a danger

1 hour ago, svensson said:

b] When you guys are generating a Praxian brave, what skill-level of mount do you give them, 'cavalry or 'war'?

rune lord or priest, very very good warrior (included mounted weapon) > 100% (I imagine the only way to be rich enough to buy or get it from the clan chief)  ==> war

noble (occupation) ==> 50% war, 50% cavalry

others ==> cavalry

imo praxians tribes are not rich enough to provide war "machine" at will. A war mount needs a lot of season, it is a big investment.

then only those who are so effective that they are praised (and have collected enough slaves) could hope to obtain the best mounts of the clan

of course... when your dad is the clan chief and your not too bad, you may expect it after your first exploit..

1 hour ago, svensson said:

a] Mounts of all sorts are a lot cheaper if you're breeding them and not paying with cash. One would suppose that Pol Joni Eiritha-women can keep the costs manageable and increase breeding of war-zebra sized mounts to a reasonable level.

more a question than an answer : is it so easy to bread mounts from another tribes (magically, mundane secret, ...) ? Is there even any taboo to ride them (from a praxian perspective) and worst to breed them ?

I imagine that when a bison (or other) warrior get a sable (or other), he see it more as food than as mount (well maybe as a pack animal if there is a lot to carry)

12 hours ago, Super Thunder Bros. said:

Just for info Six seasons in Sartar has the players adult initiation take the form of initiating into the community and it’s Wyter, granting Rune points and spells 

I didn't know but as I indurstand the rules (p286) that's seems to me the author house rules. Not an issue, just to keep it in mind:

Quote

A wyter may cast spirit magic or Rune spells on any member of its community when directed to by its priest. The wyter may even simultaneously cast the same spell on multiple members of the community by spending additional points of POW. Each point of POW spent lets the wyter cast the spell on an additional five members of the community

however, if we see the wyter's worship as a spirit cult, there is no reason to not have one rune spell.

1 hour ago, Super Thunder Bros. said:

So I could just go with that, create a clan Wyter etc. This would grant Rune Magic etc (To emphasise the start of their journey I’m starting them off with just 1 Rune point and 2 spirit points)

lay members have no access to rune magic. And the wyter doesn't provide rune magic for them to  Only the Wyter's priest can order the wyter to do things. So see it more as a "guardian spirit of the community" than a source of power for the pc.

so if they are not yet initiate, no rune magic at all 🙂 

I would say that's up to you to decide you if want young guys, not yet initiates .

If you think (event during the session) that they are not powerful enough, you have to choice :

1) the wyter or any other ally comes to save them.

2) just reduce the % and magic of their opponents.

That let your players discover the world and the rules with less options than confirmed pc (so no need to think if the best choice is this spell or this one.

For me, at 14-16 (before initiation) pc may have occupational skills (what do they do during their first years ? a farmer's child works in the field, a warrior's child see and is train the "honorable way", etc... )

they may learn 1 or 2 (at 10%) cult skills (because they participate and see their parents worship their gods), but not the cult lore (that's secret you learn once you are initiate)

Same with personal skills (1 or 2, 10%) it allows players with the same occupation / cult (often the same couple by the way) to be really different. Maybe one has a friendship with an elf, or a lunar. Maybe one like to run alone in the wild, etc...

Keep in mind that in middle age (so I imagine that's the same or even "worst" before), at 6-8 a knight's boy started to learn the different skills of his father and of his cult (animal lore, read/write, customs, sing, dance then later, riding, weapons) and I m pretty sure that until school is mandatory and "full time" or about, any child did the same, the only difference being what kind of occupation, depending on their wealth and opportunities.

4 hours ago, Aelex said:

Somehow some deadly entities (perhaps a Black Eater, Darkness elementals and / or Hell demons and maybe more) surprisingly manifest in the camp one night, slay Broyan and massacre lots of his troops in their sleep, not unlikely summoned by foul Lunar sorcery (maybe even in combination with intruders, assassins or someone preparing/helping the summoning, maybe even a traitor and/ or other allies?).

Broyans powers likely failed him because of a broken vow.

personaly I would not believe (but who I am ?...) that lunars are the source of this massacre : if they were, I think they would claim it as a great victory of the greatest empire. Somewhere, if they did it, they did killed Orlanth avatar, some good omen for the next step: killing Orlanth god. As they kept silent, they probably (in this option) did not want to claim something that people may prove they lied. They did not need this kind of lie to be known as very powerful, and they did not need to be exposed as liars, that would "reduce" the fear of their ennemies.

Another option is directly based on the broken vow. Maybe, Broyan summoned the devil to be strongest or to reduce dangers and, as he was already cursed, a) the devil did not come when it was expected, b) the devil was too powerful to be constrained

So maybe the unwilling instigator of Broyan's fall is Broyan himself.

Mostal ?

but is it dead ? is it a spirit ?

4 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

If one happens to awaken a certain demi-goddess from a certain published scenario, and marries that demi-goddess (even if it's only a year marriage), would that not make them an Heir of Vingkot? Certainly their child would be... no??

I would say it may be a good argument, at least to be "adopted" by his wife's "bloodline" (as any husband/wife who joins his/her partner's clan)

However as GM-wise lankhoring I would tell the pc that to marry her is not enough, the pc must "leave" his family/clan to join his wife's family/clan.

That 'would be accepted by his first clan of course (marry a goddess ?! whaou...) but with only one issue: There are not a lot of people still alive in his new family...

a good mythical help for a potential heroquester to do

1 hour ago, Ynneadwraith said:

successfully heroquests to receive the Sword and Helm of Vingkot, then clearly they must have been an heir all along.

however that's not because you are [skilled/powerful/ (put your word) ] enough that you will succeed the quest. There should be impossible if the heroquester is not "seen" in the mythical world as an heir.

Obtaining the sword and helm is the proof you are a Vingkot's heir (at least you are now a Vingkot's heir). But if you were not before , hard to obtain it 😛 

I'm just imagining things, not blocking the idea at all: from a gm perspective, that's not an issue, if GM wants the pc to get back the gear, the pc is one heir, even if the pc doesn't know it.)

For example it is said that almost all French  are "genetic heirs" of Charlemagne. Probably the same with German I imagine, and other europeans (of course among those who have a part of their ancestors in France/Europe for a long time)

maybe more river / lake than sea I think ?

Engizi seems apropriate, as he is in the Orlanth (and local) pantheon but not a "big" death god that's sure. Heler maybe too

As I see Durluz (in Sartar) as sartarite like others (from a cult perspective I say) and as they are near undead, I would be surprised to meet a lot of others deities than Humakt if they want to serve a death god (of course one may be inspired by some horible abyssal god). For me there are Bab's sisters if Durluz worship Ernalda (I don't know by the way)

If we are talking about Durluz in Esrolian coast / rivers, we will probably find more deities from Air and Sea pantheon, maybe even dark pantheon, thanks to Belintar

19 hours ago, Malin said:

Isn't that just a god-talker pretty much? Nothing says they can't get an allied spirit, just that it is rare.

In my opinion, god-talker is "free" yes, they have a specific relationship with their gods (or they have a more specific relationship than initiates)..

but nothing says initiates can't get an allied spirit too, it is just even rarer. So the question is still why people want (and there are people who want) to play priest but without the duties of priests for their community. This why (aka this wish) may have a more consistent answer than "take a priest, and forget/adapt the rules about priest because MGF"

18 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

But then won’t all the players pick the non-priest priest option — not because they don’t want to serve their community, but because they’ll want the escape route … just in case?

there are players (at least me 🙂 ) who could pick a real priest option because they want to play a priest in charge of their local community.

All depends on the campaign. Sure if the campaign is "visit the world, in a group of weird friends - noone sharing the same pantheon, etc... so without any reason to say "but I m a real priest ! just my duty is my friends, one telmori, one elf, one seshnegi and I  the Orlanthi"-, fore sure I will not play a priest-priest but maybe a non-priest priest 😛 

Same if they are all of the same pantheon and all priests (what are your duty if the 5 guys with you are all priests of the same god ? 😛 or are just lay member of your god ?)

but if the campain is about a clan / a tribe. Centered on this kind of community.

I would expect scenarios in the community (raid, festival, diplomacy, good event, bad event, facing some ambitious rival or even a bad archi priest - or I would play the ambitious who wants the place of the "good" archi priest, ... thing like that) Scenario based on local event like king of dragon pass &co propose. That could be adapted to pc as individuals, once they are in the top of the hierarchy (aka not just initiates among the crowd but real priests, runelord, etc...) There is in these games realy good ideas in my opinion.

Of course I would expect one adventure outside every two or three in game years (bargain something, solving some curse with a pilgrimage, getting back a stolen regalia in Ralios, saving some kin seen in the slave market of Pavis two seasons ago, ...)

19 hours ago, Geoff R Evil said:

For example, in my game right now, the clans shaman has been away for 4 weeks already as an NPC but what he is doing relates to protecting the clan, and also sets up a need for my PCs to go help him.

and that's fine because it is to protect the clan . What I say is when players want to be "free" to move anywhere, even if it is not to save the clan, then they may not choose an occupation requiring to serve the community every day. Or they can choose it, but the community would probably decide to remove their position. Because they need someone who is required to serve the community every day.

And if someone is required to be away all the time for the safety of the clan, that means, somewhere, that another one should be appointed to stay in the community (the 90%)

And in that case, back to my previous point, I think a [non priest but with about the same "runic abilities" ] occupation may be defined for players who want to play the "actual priest" but free from any/a lot of the actual priest's duties.

2 hours ago, Geoff R Evil said:

You are the embodiment of your deity or spirits in Glorantha. So what it’s saying is that OK there is some time needed on the ritualistic and community care components of the role, and these link to community, but basically acting as your god did 90% of the time is to me ‘in service’

for me being the embodiment of your deity is what is called Initiate

the 10% or 90% is not based on the time you embodies your god (will you say that a humakti or orlanthi initiate must be honorable only 10% of the time ? )

Imo, this 10% / 90% is based on the time you must/are expected to be in the temple or around, not only for rituals , but for any community/temple needs depending on your occupation.

Before saying my new answer, there is something I would like to clarify :

I like the priest and the rune lord as is in the rules. That's not the issue for me at all. It makes sense.

the duties (including the 90%), the description, are exactly what I imagine for a priest. And it is a very nice "occupation", if you play a community based campaign, of course.

I have more issue with the shaman rules because it combines two things the fetch and the community. I would prefer to have a rule for [undefined name] who has a fetch and [undefined name] who has a fetch and leads or at least look after a community.

The point is more how GM and players play (and what published scenarios offer).

What I say is there is an inconsistency between the rules and how it seems a lot of people play these guys .

I m not a "judge", I don't say these GM and players play badly. I don't say it at all. I say there is a need of "something" which is not the priest as decribed, something so closed to the priest or shaman that they.. we ! .. use,  "forgetting" a part of the rules -and background- . And that's for me the inconsistency. Because in fact, what people do is some eurmal trick there.

2 hours ago, Malin said:

I got that wish a while ago: "Hey, we wanna go to the Plateau of Statues and do some treasure hunting!" This is a bit outside their normal militia duties, so I needed to come up with some good reasons, and a couple of sessions later, we were heading there. It's not like they were saying at the start of a session, "We're going to the Wastes today, so I will start packing."

yes and that's totally fine. However, if a majority of the scenarios you play are "outside" the scope of the duties of your pcs;  GM is using eurmal magic. Fun yes, Useful (irl) yes. But not consistent with the duties of every pcs. Is it serious, important,... ? never mind, it fits with MGF, and MGF is RAW isn't it ?

In the same way that irl, how many believers will accept that their parish priest, synagogue rabbi, mosque imam or any other cult priest will not be here to lead the cult every time it is required, will not be here to teach, advice, support daily their followers  ?

• Sorry I was not here last week for your baby's birth, I have a good reason: my friend, the head of the police of London (rune level) was called in Los Angeles to question some suspects and one of them believes in our god, my help is required.
• Ah that's true, three weeks ago I was in Beijing because you know, my friend the great archelogist (rune level) Jones needed my knowledge to decode an ancient tablet. I m verry sorry to have not been here to bless your Dad's tomb.
• You want to plan your wedding next week ? Congratulations ! Oh unfortunatly I will not manage it, ask my god talker to arrange it. Yes I need to go with my friends to  ....

Maybe this guy should leave his position to someone else, more involved in the community day to day life; shouldn't he ?

Of course some times they are called to something else, somewhere else, far from their communities... 10% of the time... or even less. So why gloranthan should be different (when the rules say the same) ?

In the other hand, why should it be so important to see their characters becoming priest for players ? of course if the players and gm want to play priests and their congregation, it is so logical. But if not..

why ? for the (now) ridiculous additional power this occupation gives ? Since RQG, we don't need to be priest to use runespells. -the issue is about shaman, i agree -

To get an allied spirit ? well an extraordinary intiate can get an allied spirit. That's a god decision. And the GM plays the god.  You don't need to be a priest. you don't need to "trick" the priesthood

So why ? to have a kind of progression ? Something between initiate and hero ? In that case, there is a need of something, for sure (in addition of hero rules hahah). My previous post tried to answer this need (with the holy status and champion status) and to keep consistent with what the rules says - and what I imagine is a priest -

3 hours ago, Malin said:

It feels like some people read the rules as a document forbidding them to do things

so for me no, the point is not that I m afraid to break the rules, rules that I consider consistent and fine for the priests. The point is that's there is something missing to stay consistent with both priesthood and some GM/players wishes if we don't want houserule.

46 minutes ago, radmonger said:

While it is not afaik explicitly stated in the rules, for me priest inherently needs a wyter in the same sense that a shaman needs a fetch. It is their means of interacting with the Other Side; they can't priest without it. And a wyter is a community spirit, so a priest needs a community.

i m not sure there is a wyter for each priest.

there is a wyter for a clan,  sometimes for a band, if the band is strong enough to obtain it.

and yes you need a priest for this wyter.

But in a clan/tribe, you may find several temples of different gods. Is there a wyter for each temple ? maybe (i would say yes imo)

But in a temple, you may have several priests, and a hierachy . Are there several wyter ? I don't think so. If there is a wyter in a temple, the priest of the wyter would probably be the leader of the temple(or one of his/her favorites).

So for me you are not a priest because you "have" a wyter (you need to have a fetch to be a shaman). You are a priest because you have a role in the temple.

46 minutes ago, radmonger said:

Some personally leave the mundane world, and interact with the Gods of the otherworld directly without a proxy such as a wyter, fetch or whatever sorcerors use,. Those people are called heroes. These are supposed to break the rules

I agree. in the other hand... why are there rules about priesthood for us irl, if the first thing we (irl) have to do is to not follow the rules for our pc once they reach the priest or shaman or rune lord status ?

20 minutes ago, Snork said:

What about wandering priests? Roaming the countryside. Probably only visit shrines as congregation numbers are low. Still get MP and points of POW for their god. 

yes that's my answer with "subclass" but that s not the rules (and the debate, somewhere 🙂 )

you have temple priests, you may have wandering priests, you may have missionaries, inquisitors, etc... and/or you may have "hero"/"champion"/"choosen" like

my house rule is not by subclass by the way, it is a matrix :

in one dimension, you have your mundane role:

- You are a priest in a temple (with or without building) you get the mundane benefits and the mundane duties (90% time, 90%tithes *),

- same with a shaman of a community

- or a rune lord (iron gear, lifestyle, temple support etc..),

- and the last is you are not working for your community as member of your cult hierarchy (aka you have the 10% time and tithes of an initiate * )

in the seconde dimension you have a relationship with your god, you get the "magical" benefits and duties (restrictions, worship sessions, etc...)

- you can be welcomed (access of runespells, etc.. like an initiate)

- a holy guy (magical benefits of a priest even if you are not a mundane priest)

- a champion (magical benefits of a rune lord) etc...

- a shaman (you have a fetch so you are a shaman from the otherworld perspective)

with that matrix :

- A majority of priests are "holy" but you may find some priests (those who organise the temple activity) with only the welcomed status (no bonus to gain POW, etc...).

- some zzaburi are priests (mundane) when other are "just" sorcerers

- an initiate who travels the world to offer the words of her god to anyone, may gain the holy status from her god, even if she has no community, no temple.

- And you may meet @radmonger 's heroes (or mine 😛 ), who may be both holy and champion (and more, or less) because they succeed some heroic deeds.

but that's house answer for what I consider (probably a lot don't care) as a issue. But that's a little issue as I can manage it

* 90%, 10% etc... depends on the cult of course

14 hours ago, jajagappa said:

A Community does not have to be settled, nor does the Shaman-Priest, but they need to interact if the shaman-priest is to deliver their promises of worship to the spirits they have allied. The White Bull horde is ready to go everywhere that Argrath goes. The Wolf Pirates are constantly on the move. Even the Company of the Dragon could be a roving mercenary band. The problem in all these cases is logistics - they do have to be fed, they do need shelter. If the community is small enough, then travelling via caravanserai's, or pitching tents, is workable. 

I agree, but in that case (aka pcs forms their own community, and as priests (or shaman or runelord) they serve this community) it means they are not any more full member of any clan community, just relative.

As I understand, if zogzog is priest and member of the Colymar, zogzog is priest of the Colymar (the 90% duty)

But if zogzog says to the chief priest of the Colymar temple

"look, we were friends when we were children, I hope we are still friends, you gave me the priest status few years ago, all of that I agree,

but now, you know, I don't care your orders, I will not bless the Colymar lands and will not lead any ceremony for them because I m the priest of my "band" (with praxian shaman, lunar sorcerer, seshngi warrior, .... all of them not worship our priest god, by the way... so priest of no one except himself) I take care of my "band" and my "band" is free like the air and can go where it wants, with or without what the Colymar ring and priests says"

of course with words inspired by Issaries and not by Vadrus 😛 I m pretty sure that the Colymars will say (again with Issaries, or even Uleria intervention), ok , thanks, good bye then. We are still friends, but now, as you say your duty is not toward us, your loyalty is more for your friends than for us so our loyalty will reflect your decision. You cannot act in our name anymore, you can't expect us to respect our duties toward our tribe/clan members.

of course if our band is loyal to a very large imperialist community (like the white bull campaign), Argrath, the lunar Empire - not the XXX clan of Saird, Trash, Sartar or Prax-  there is a room for more or less "free" adventure for priests.

But as @Runeblogger notices, if the band doesn't share any god, if the band has no common loyalty except to their members, what does that mean to have priests ?

ok the two rune lords, may have "right" to be loyal to the others, if the band continues to move and then they can prove how honorable and proud their gods are but....

A priest of Lodril without any initiate or lay member ? with only a ridiculous charriot as shrine ?

A priest of Aldrya without any garden ? just one or two plant pots ?

What will decide the player of the Agimori shaman once they succeed to free the clan ? Will the player retire the shaman ? or play her only once per year, because the rest of the time she must manage spirit for her clan ? Or decide to leave the clan in good condition then continue to visit the world with her friends ?

Note that I m not considering this group (Vinga, Humakt, Lodril, Aldrya, Agimori) is a bad group. Just that the roles and duty of priests (shaman included) described by the rules don't fit for a game where there are such a group of "free / open" adventurers.

In the same way, the priest is for me well designed in the rule for a real priest occupation (manage a community of worshippers)

the issue I see is like the history process of the generation, the rules fit well for hero who will decide to follow Argrath or another big leader (so with a community who can support their "carreer" objectives in anyway).

But if you want to play a little band of independant "brothers", with no interests for politics as a group - or no strong loyalty to one  faction if you prefer - it is a little bit harder

Not a big issue of course, it is easy to "forget" a part of the duty . Or like me sometimes, considering that becoming a priest or a rune lord is not really important as you don't lose your spell as an initiate... it is so easy to refuel your RP.

But maybe, in rqg 2040, it could be nice to offer a "career", "class", "occupation" for rune level of the three magic paths (Zzaburi, Shaman, "choosen by a god" holy people) and for each of them, define different sub classes (the priest as is who manages the temple is one subclass, but one or two others who have no temple to manage, a shaman "as is" who serves her community, but a shaman without community who serves something else - a great entity for example-, or why not a totally free and lone shaman ). Same magical powers and benefits, but different duties, toward different "target/leader", and different mundane benefit.

15 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

I would say yes here on intuition, but there's textual evidence against it. Sure, you could argue that Oddi just misses his Sense Chaos roll here, but that doesn't seem diegetically interesting:

Quote

When we crossed into Bilini, we all were silent, but Oddi’s silence lasted longer, for the creature [the Crimson Bat] was a thing of chaos, yet his Storm Bull sense had betrayed him and he had known nothing chaotic was at hand.

 

In fact I don't see any evidence at all in your quote

who is talking ? the "we" seems to demonstrate he is a companion of Oddi. Probably someone who trusted Oddi.

Now what does he say ?

Oddi's silence lasted longer. ==>if* he did not lie intentionaly, that's a fact.

then he concludes that his sense of chaos had betrayed him. ==> if* he told what he think, that's not a fact but an interpretation. And a normal one if he trusted Oddi, that's the better interpretation of a storm bull behaviour.

However, there are different options

- Oddi failed to detect the chaos (his conclusion)

- Oddi detected the chaos, but smart enough he decided to no attack it directly and to not share the information with others (maybe they were dumb enough -or fanatic enough- to charge the bat).

- Oddi detected the chaos but he did not care because he was illuminate and had other priorities (note that "other priorities" doesn't mean he was a chaos supporter)

* doubt is everywhere. What people say are not always what they think

the point for me is that, if we have to "obey" the rules, a group of  shaman, priests and rune lords should "retire". The major issue is the 90% time duty for the community.

Of course there are exceptions like

- cult with a time's duty is low (Issaries ...), 

- priests and rune lords dedicated to discovery new things (I have no issue with a LM adventuring priest for example, ..well there is a limit : the LM must find something, write something, etc... if the adventures benefits are only guilders that's not good)

- priests and rune lords of a very little and wandering community (storm khan, humakt leader of a mercenary troop, etc...) In that case the community is the pcs group and some followers.

- and another but very specific option, is there are all from the same community AND the campaign is the community management. So maybe a scenario is to visit a "dungeon" or to visit Prax, then have to fight for/against the craddle by opportunity. But these scenarios should be exception, and the  majority should be in and around the community.

Another option should be to "extend" god talkers but that's house rule (however I'm pretty sure the large majority of GMs who faces the case of a pc reaching the shaman or priest level doesn't change anything in their scenario management, so about every one houserules this issue)

PC are not priests, or not shaman of a community as described in the rules, they don't obtain any mundane benefit from their communities. but don't have to manage a temple (aka they don't "waste 90% of their time")

but for any reason (luck, devotion, deeds, ...) they have  the otherworld benefits. They may be shaman (aka fetch) but outside any community, they may gain all the magical benefits of a priest (easy pow, easy replenishing). Same with a rune lord, not dedicated to a temple/community but getting their "orders" directly from their gods.

imo yes

why not ?

the point (still imo ) of illumination is not to say that red = blue, but that's not because red is red that red is bad, and not because blue is blue that blue is good

so an illuminate is abe to says this is chaos, this is law in the same manner than a non illuminate. The difference is what are their feelings, fears, etc.. once they have conclude.

now this specific "power"

this power may be considered as a skill. You don't lose a skill just because you see the world differently. Again, the point is what do you do when your skill tells you "hey  there is chaos".

I already read some material where you can sacrifice a skill for another one (magical/runic sacrifice of course) so maybe some schools of illumination will "remove" your skill (giving disturbing information, with your new knowledge you are not able anymore to detect and understand the signal) or ask you to sacrifice to some entity (but in this case, you are already illuminate, will any bully sacrifice a holy power if not ?)

this power may be considered as a gift of your god, like any runic spell. But your god is not able to detect you are illuminate. So in this way, the gift is still yours.

so for me, by default, you don't lose it. But in some way, you may decide or accept to lose it because your philosophy, now, tells you that you don't need it (or you need to forget it)

then, i can conclude it is like heroquest rules 🙂 there are a lot of people who propose (or will propose) house rules.

Now we know heroquest rules are planned, maybe we will have some draconic surprises with the sartar Supplement !

thanks all for your answers !

On 1/11/2024 at 8:24 PM, Zalain said:

i got a new question about telmoris, weapons and transformations:

could a telmori have an involuntary transformation, a different day of Wild-Day?  Could his taint chaos indice that transformation? Or maybe be the Red Moon glow (being inside of the Lunar Empire frontiers ro too close of the Crimsom Bat ??

imo everything is possible with chaos

But in our case it sgould be an exception, so you may meet 1 telmori like that. And of course (for me) if it is exceptional, it is not normal, if it is not normal, it is clearly tainted (in the aura, in the eyes, something.. different, disturbing or even disgusting). A taint that the other telmori may feel naturaly: "(s)he is not like us, the smell maybe, etc..." and of course the night transformation. That does not mean any reject (as usual some would dislike her/his) because the pack/tribe has interest to have some when everybody is transformed into (I would say)

Now, if it is for a pc, I would be a little bit reluctant, and at least ask a good background, how the pc get this taint ? Were the parent worshipping some weird spirit (ex nysalor's fan ?) and did they offer the cub in some religious activity  ? Were they willing (in that case what did they try ? to gain more power transformation or to clean the curse ?) or abused by the spirit ("no no I m just a wolf spirit, not a chaotic one, gnark gnark gnark"). Or was the pc (player-cub) captured by any philosopher or ogre or priest of spme cult who tried some experience ?

In fact even for a npc I would try to find a reason (yes I know, chaos does not need at all any reason 🙂 )

32 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Incidentally, what do Lodril's volcanoes look like from below?

a trollkin after a climb fumble ...

I imagine tunnel / cave of lava (red and yellow depending on the power of the location). From a human perspective, I think it is not a strong light (human may not see very far from the source) except of course if you see directly the center of the power. From a trollish perspective, dark troll would see it as less unconfortable than day light (but hot hot hot) when less strong species would have the same expression than our so nice thief above.

I think it because Lodril was defeated by Argan Argar. So he may not be too violent against Darkness. Like a "domesticated" lion in some exhibit for tourist, dangerous if you approach it and are not (with) the master

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

Any runic loreperson will assure you that sight is a function of the Fire Rune, but accounts about the construction/creation of Man by an assortment of deities always have them insert Fire.

another perspective, from a non runic loreperson 😛 , is that as Darkness is the first element and all others come from it, it is possible to imagine that any power of any element has its source in darkness ans specialized itself in some way.

Darkness is not only black, a part is dark grey, a part is light grey, etc...

So sight exists in darkness, in a very weak prototype, ans fire, by construction, captured the essence of this primitive function, developping it until a wonderful power.

in the same way that darkness is not only frozen, part are just cold, etc..  so there is a kind of prototype of heat in darkness too.

On 2/12/2024 at 3:46 PM, Jeff said:

it is how the heck did an ogre become an initiate of a cult that hates Chaos!

I m always frustrated when I see inconsistency but the scenario did not shock me 🙂

my hypothesis:

this guy is a provoker, he loves distrub religious activities and take a lot of risks

as any ogre, he is good to infiltrate community.

we don't know where he was joined AA. But in all cases,

- the priests and others worshippers have not  any sense to detect his chaotic nature, even SB can fail, so why not AA or Orlanth. They have no power to unmask him. So yes, they can have a process, a check list or anything but...we know what tests our characters have to pass, not so terrible 🙂

- the god himself ? well it is just a god among others. Even if he is more aware about chaos thant some others, he is faillible ! ans if we follow the malkoni, he is just an... ancestor

On 2/12/2024 at 3:46 PM, Jeff said:

And that requires the initiate swear loyalty to their priest.

Oh sure !

Now what could he do to break loyalty and oath ?

Participate of an Ernalda constest ? no, after all if AA supplant other gods,in a air community, where a lot of light people participate, the god will be pleased (until maybe he discovers her wife is now cursed, but that's too late)

Join a community, socialize ? well he is a communication god !

Eating human flesh ? well trolls eat human flesh, AA may imagine that our guy wants to remove his humanity part to join more trollish darkness, or maybe he doesn't notice or don't care. I don't know what AA thinks about cannibalism (the true one, eating your own specie)

But what does happen if he doesn't respect his loyalties and oaths ?

Even the magic of Humakt cannot automaticaly fix any thing. In fact, the only thing I see that breaking oath could do is... bringing more chaos... The dream of any ogre, isn't it ?

This guy is designed for becoming a hero. Will become a champion, a priest, or anything.. except if our pcs see the truth and act again

25 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Well, I'm reading this as a bit of a history lesson for Orgovale Summer... but doesn't really address the relevant questions - how fragile/powerful is she compared to others with that classification (demi-god or godling...), and how much freedom from the Compromise does she have?

 

If your history is correct, she was alive during the GodTime - and thus, in theory (I imagine, but perhaps not), should be bound by the Compromise.

However, like Jar-Eel (and the Red Moon herself), she's also managed to bypass that by not being there for the Compromise itself, and has now come back to us (yes, I'm obviously referring to the GA scenario).

 

But, it also sounds like you're thinking she is just a (slightly?) more powerful version of, say, Tarndisi... and thus, quite fragile. And potentially manipulable (relative to the other big names on the board).

imo

I see her like the dryad played by Jeff in the white bull campain

so still here "now" but here since before the compromise

that means (If i understand well)

a) she knows / she is aware of what was before and what is today (of course she has no memory about what happened when she "slept" )

b) she is able to "redo" (pattern notion) what she did before the compromise. She is able to love, to discuss, to help plants, etc...

c) she is unable to learn or discover new things.

d) she cannot act in a manner she never did before the compromise

for example

- If she never fight before the compromise, she will never fight, it is "impossible", so she will "freeze". (d)

- If she dug into the earth with a shovel, she can dug, but she will never be able to use a pneumatic hammer (b+c)

- if she meet lunars, she can learn they are lunars, even if there was no lunar bc (... before compromise...) becaue the thing is "there are strange clans/tribes/communities" which is not a new thing, so she can tell that she saw a group of lunars in the wood yesterday (a)

I m not sure she is bound to a specific location (unlike a dryad). So she can learn new locations. For example if she is able to travel from Sartar to Ralios, even if she never visited Ralios, she will be able to identify that's a wood, that's a river, and say I met these wolves near the river. Now I would play that farther than her bc location, more confuse would be her answer ( "there are 5 rivers, which one ? Oh I don't know, they are all the same here" then she cries).

I imagine this kind of goddess like people suffering from mental dissease. They are not dumb at all, but for any reason they can't do thing that seems "normal". And some  suffer of it because they may understand that there is a issue, they may remember they have not this issue long ago.

maybe the dryad doesn't understand because the forest is always the same but for a goddess facing humans always changing / creating (or not)

I m here in a difference between eder races and human but maybe that's not a gloranthan concept (more middle earth or d&d) . Don"t know if I 'm influenced

10 hours ago, metcalph said:

There isn't.

The best way to handle it IMO would be get the Dragonewt Magic from the RuneQuest Glorantha: Bestiary p42 to P43 and use them to as Runespells.  Yes, the Dragonewts don't use Runepoints in their rune magics, Yes some Dragonewt spell effects last a lot longer than 15 minutes, but the human version of their magic would use both because they are using inferior spiritual senses.

The runic affinity in the Dragonewt Rune would be one's Spoken or Written Auld Wyrmish*.  Beaked Warrior magics require a minimum of 25% Auld Wyrmish to learn or cast.  Tailed Priest magics require 50%.  Full Priestly magic requires 75% and Draconic Illumination (which is based on the number of times you've spoken to a dragon).

*Spoken Draconic Magic is simple enough.  Written Magic requires the Magicians to make the required writing either on the ground or magically summoned lines of force (a la Doctor Strange).  There's also magical surgery but Draconic Magicians need that like another hole in the head.

 

 

sure that's an option, something I imagine. However there are three potential issues:

1) we don't know (aka chaosium rules) if the draconic illumination provides the same powers than dragonewt nature

2) we don't know if the draconic illumination gives some "point" in the rune

3) we don't know if draconic power is based on auld wyrmish and not rune

well I say "we don't know" but maybe it is "I don't know":)

there are a lot of smart house rules answers, in the same way than house rules about heroquest. but that 's house rules.