French Desperate WindChild

2 hours ago, Darius West said:

Okay thanks for the clarification.  I misread the section and thought Fetches became embodied in animals like allied spirits.  My bad.

New Question:

So what about the situation with cults like Waha where you can be a Waha Khan and gain an allied spirit, and a Waha Shaman and gain a fetch?  The Allied Spirit can be in the animal, but the fetch cannot be.  How do the Allied Spirit and the Fetch interact with each other?  Can anyone discuss what they can and cannot do for each other?  It wasn't covered in the rules afaik.

imo as other said, it is the same person

what I would say in addition:

if the shaman is in the mundane world (the 'not fetch' part), the allied spirit in the mundane world (animal) will see the mundane  shaman body

if the shaman is visiting the spirit world (the 'no fetch' part), that means the fetch can be seen in the mundane world, so our allied spirit in animal, will see the fetch.

Of course if our allied spirit is for any reason disembodied (is it possible ? can a ghost be an allied spirit) I would say it see the opposite (the part being in the spirit world in all case)

I agree with all of the answers however there is the question of EWF

what could (not was dragonewts are alien after all) be the dragonewts reasons to « draconize » human gods ?

and in that way, did they, at this time, respected some gods more than others ?

Or did they just trick the sentient flesh ?

1 hour ago, Brian Duguid said:

I find this an odd view. Think back to 1992 when this came out. How much information was available at that time to the RQ-buying public regarding Dragon Pass, the Grazelands, Sartar, Orlanthi culture and mythology, the Colymar clan? Almost nothing. And yet KoS set it all out, alongside a detailed history, a proper account of the Lightbringers Quest. There was nothing else that covered Orlanthi customs and cultures in detail until 2009, seventeen years later (Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes), and with that out-of-print, there remains nothing until next year's Sartar Homeland book.

And no, back in 1992, we absolutely did not need to have read all the lore and material you can get today to find this book both valuable and illuminating.

To be fair, I am being a little contrary, but I seriously don't believe you need to bury yourself in facts before you grok KoS.

I just shared what I felt. And as I wrote "KOS may lose you" and "Well... it lost me". I m not saying anyone will have the same experience I had.

1 hour ago, Brian Duguid said:

To be fair, I am being a little contrary

not a problem, and thanks to say it 🙂

1 hour ago, Brian Duguid said:

but I seriously don't believe you need to bury yourself in facts before you grok KoS

humanity is not monolithic (well I assume we are both human 😛 ) and yes  I "need" facts before anything else. But I understand others run differently.

In fact, if I had something spliting what happened really (not the myths, the "unique truth") and how people, cults, cultures believed what happened (so the myths)with their differences, I would be totally confortable. But this "unique truth" is (or seems to me) incompatible with Glorantha. God learners tried, but somewhere, they failed.

no and probably, until you are familiar with the world, the lore, etc.. KOS may lose you in all its "options". Well... it lost me 🙂

however it is very interesting to read to get more flavors, colors, etc.. Once you know the canon (not all of course, but enough to let you say "ok, now I am confident with Glorantha"), it will (or may ? I can't guarantee anything 😛 )  provide your a big thickness of the world

There are in my opinion four options to get a quest from a god :

- pc is actor -> cast a divination spell and ask something like where could I serve you ? The god-gm will answer

- pc is is ‘poor’ actor -> just prey and devotion roll (poor = no rp used) the god-gm would probably not answer … but who knows what can happen (option 3 or 4)

- god is actor -> the god contacts the pc or a npc who decides to contact the pc. A dream or things like that

- the environment. Some shaman, priest, spirit or anything request the pc to do some holy stuff. Protecting a ceremony, looking for some artifact, investigating and healing some cursed land

now getting POW needs some heroic deeds. If you just fight a dangerous enemy of your cult you main gain 1 pow and for me only if you lose something (or… some friend) not just as a reward more as a compensation

if you want more pow you must visit hero plan and maybe gain 1 pow per station (if they demonstrate some spiritual/devoted/passionate activity not just because they succeed to climb the pit) then maybe 1d3 as the reward of the successful (if the quest, at the end, offer them a new understanding of the world or if the result is an enormous sacrifice)

of course the gain is personal if one pc just follow others or use his/her sword to solve the station issue there is nothing to gain (or maybe if the sword use was heroic - not just successful - 1d6% in sword skill but that is another story)

now regaining all the pow lost in the previous scenario with a new scenario will probably cause some damage in my opinion for the full play (but it depends on the table) in the same way that resurrection of every dead adventurer. The lost means nothing if it can be regained after 2-4 hours

I would ask the player if his/her character will ask the yelmalio hierarchy before trying to join LM

if both cults accept (I mean these specifics guys in this specific temples) then there would not be issue

But if not, as I imagine YO cult as very hierarchical, the priest must be angry to not be asked even if he think it is a good thing. And maybe the priest has some issue with this local LM who knows ? (The gm of course)

2 hours ago, MOB said:

Sure!

But that's how it works. The bereaved use whatever techniques they can to make their dead loved one stay rosy cheeked and as if alive, and boom! the healing magic applied makes it so. 

let's explore it. When I imagine embalming, I see some egyptians with a hook exploring the noose to extract brain.... That seems to me not really safe for the patient  resurrection candidate  😉  But I may be wrong

so does our glorantha new favorite activity follow the same way ? they extract some part, replace them by symbolic artifacts (or void) and then when the magic applies the artifact becomes true part (for example a clay? bitumed? brain becomes a flesh-?- brain).

or the process is more to "put in stasis" the body (so no egyptian hook in the noose) and there is no body degradation because they do rituals (heal spells, body painting, external strips and things like that)

or maybe it is just "natural" that gloranthan dead flesh doesn't rot at all (or not the first week) and people just interact like the person was sleeping (with all the fear, sadness, etc... that family has for someone who risks dying)

In the two options where body, without any ritual care (no extraction, or no painting, strips, etc...) cannot survive during this week. So adventurers could not be resurrected, if they have no specific material (and maybe hook....) and appropriate skills (I have hook brain 10%... don't die please) with them, just to join a caster with the resurection spell.

for me, if you start at 16, like @Squaredeal Sten what you don't get at 16 is "lost" as an automatic benefit, but you fill the gap with experience.

Now the question is what do you lose ?

magic. of course yes,. (well of course is my opinion 😛 ) you don't have magic since you are too young to  learn it (be allowed to learn it) but you may be the exception

cult skill ? of course you lose a part, but all ? cult secret (aka cult knowledge) of course you are not yet initiate so you can't learn the secrets. But other ? I would allow to pick one or two skills and split maybe 30% between them. After all, as rituals are everywhere everytime, if you are interested by one cult you will see, practice (roleplay) etc... and doing that get some experience

personal skill ? not all of course, but as a child, you may have some secret, story, "adventure", other don't have. Maybe you are/were friend with an alynx and run some nights in the wood,  with it, getting +10 in one survival skill. Or even you are in a farmer family, but you obtain from some LM followers they teach you this secret knowledge called Read/write. Or you were so happy to see these entertainers that you learn how to disguise yourself ? Or you were attracted by this strange guy who lives as an ermit in the boundary/wild of your tula (lunar / troll / elf / kralori ==> speak the appropriate language +10, local spirit ==>spirit lore, or spirit combat or spirit speech or ...)

Seems to me good to have a past, even when you start at 16. Maybe a secret skill (not very high, just you have and no one knows, it is "our secret") maybe an official one (it is obvious you are able to disguise your self, since you did it during the last party) so I would allow 20% to split in one or two skills related to one background (no you can't be friend with both the troll and the elf ) and add a passion associated (loyalty to XXX)

8 hours ago, MOB said:

For Seven Mothers cultists that's where embalmers come into the picture. Then you prop the dead sable rider up in the saddle and keep on riding until the full moon*. 

*But its not a "dead" body though, not officially, not until the priests says resurrection is no longer viable.  

does that mean you can embalm a body before the "not yet seven days death" and resurrect the cultist after that ?

22 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Only warrior types do that.

Yes, see what you quote, I was talking about professional warriors not because min max profil but because imo of course  warrior trained by their family (previous occupation) joining a warrior cult (cult skill) will spend a large part of their time to improve their capacity to survive (personal skill)

25 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

We're OT......

I agree but don’t know how to split 😛

35 minutes ago, Joerg said:

 

Argan Argar has a literacy requirement for initiates and upward, which means they are lay members of LM almost by default.

 

That is something I don’t understand (I m not challenging, just looking for a reason)

i have no issue in Orlanth pantheon, you learn r/w with THE cult providing literacy. That’s part of their role so of course you are at least lay member 

but in another culture, where there may be (probably ?) no LM initiate at all and where literacy is very implemented (AA, KL high level, etc…) why should they worship LM ?

If he lives in troll culture then AA and why not, in addition, LM or Irripi Ontor (but imagine how he met the cult) 

if he lives in orlanthi culture then LM but in town not in clans land (well my Glorantha does not welcome strangers)

if he lives in lunar culture Irripi Ontor or maybe but it seems to me difficult (but I may be wrong) Buserian. I imagine Buserian is much much more difficult than IO because Buserian is (if I understand well) a light god

’

25 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

I'm not sure how you're getting this bit of math to work.

Even by RAW for PCs, that's not going to happen.

you are right : not every body 😛 except philosopher and priest, anyone has at least +10% in one weapon thanks to their occupation (herder +10, a lot of no fighter +15)

now what is the tendency I show ?

except magicians, people start about with 40% in one cultural weapon (homeland + occupation) let's say there is no personal bonus, no cult bonus

then page 416 we can choose 4 skills per season. As the world is violent, your farmer or herder doesn't want to stay inactive in case of cattle raid, your trader want to save herself agains bandits, etc... I imagine that, if i follow RAW, they will "pick" their best weapon skill (always the same, they are not warriors after all) to save themselves, their families, their herds  and wealth.

so start with 40%+, roll 6 times (or 5 if you consider sacred time is not a season) x 20 years = 120 experience checks

90-40 = 50. With an average of 3.5. So you need 15 succeess to become weapon master.

ok I don't demonstrate it with math (the curve is harder once you are 80, etc...  I have not enough time - I'm too old now 😛 - and will probably make some issue), it depends  on the characteristic bonus too. But it seems really possible, doesn't it ?

or anoher view : Why 100% of "professional" warriors npc we meet in our adventure are not weapon master at 21yo ? It is so easy with the rules !

just because the rules are for exceptional people (like pc) not for everybody (my opinion)

3 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

I think this is a misstep in a simulationist game (the PCs have different rules than everyone else, which isn't very sim), but the alternative (applying these rules to NPCs) is worse

Yes I agree.  

For me

1) your apprentice starts like other

no extra gain (aka 1 pow per year) before the pc starts the game the pc may have gain extra pow before but their master (the shaman) may have ask them to spend this pow in any ritual / enchantment. An apprentice learn AND serve 😉

2) it is possible to travel yes 
i would personally use 1 encounter for one day of mundane travel. If your shaman wants to avoid each spirit during the travel there are skill rolls for that.

3) you have to know the name of the specific creature and have a spell to summon the spirit, (check if the shaman spells allow them to target a named creature

the other option is to visit the spirit plan and to search. Maybe the shaman has some spirit friends they can ask for help

so depending on role play and skill roll I would allow a 20% chance the first encounter then +10 % per encounter

imagine a world without smartphone and you look for your friend in a crowd. Who will be the first person you meet ?

9 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Only in RQ3. 🙂

Seasonal occupation experience in rqg

six rolls per year for everyone I think no ?

5 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Perhaps it might be better to say one gains 1 nett POW gain every few years - but 10 years would be terribly low, and Priests and God-Talkers would be extremely rare.

do we consider that anyone gains +5% /year  in their best weapon so all 40+ year old people are weapon master ?

I mean the point is there are people , because they are blessed by gods / destiny / live, and / or their activity  are able to gain "a lot of" POW. And there are the others.

In my opinion, PC have destiny (or a potential of destiny), so they are able to gain a lot of POW. Priests, rune lords (or those who will become priests and rune lord) have this facility. But the "commoner" (don't want to put any pejorative sense, I don't know if this word is pejorative) ... no

For me dwarves don't have... and don't need to have this potential. Of course, as other races, you may find people with this potential.Maybe those who are or who will be "diamond" will. But not all will become diamond a day, even if they never die. So the race itself ? why ? just because there is a spell needing POW  (sorcery-like from design, but if i remember not exactly sorcery).. No 🙂

5 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

many of the famed contests of Kargan Tor.

 

So famed that I don’t know them 😛

do we know something about them ?

3 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

People can easily wake me. They can't put me to sleep without a lot of technical equipment.

Similarly, if the Horned Man is more like a teacher, he can't just un-teach you.

that is a key point : the entity who is with you (like the Horned Man) does not give you the fetch. That's you, alone, who succeeds or fails. You fight alone.

The entity's gift is not the power, the gift is the key to open the door, and once you are in the room, able to stay in the room, that's your own ability.

Of course you may have passions (loyalty, devotion) fo those who helped you (teacher, entity).. Of course you may have debt, oath, etc...

Maybe you promise your shaman-teacher to stay in the tribe once she retires/die but we know that a shaman has several apprentices in her life. So what do they become ? There are not enough room in a tribe to all of them (except if they die before their teacher)

On 11/28/2023 at 11:42 PM, Akhôrahil said:

I'm sure bad things happen if you disregard your cult (or worse, sin against its precepts), but that's true for all cults. I would rule that you can be ejected from your cult and lose all Rune Point benefits, as well as be subjected to unpleasant things from Spirits of Reprisal, but not losing your fetch - it's you, just your magical self.

so good

in fact reading again and again the RAW : "A shaman’s first obligation is to their tribe or cult." I think that use "A shaman’s first obligation is to their land or greater entities they worship" will change anything. Tribe is somewhere part of land, but if their is no tribe, there is still a land. Cult is part of greater the entity global environment , but if you refuse (or are ejected by) any hierarchy, any organization, any "master/leader", you can still meet your obligations.

Of course my words are not the best 🙂 but let's open the window.

11 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Sounds like a 90-100% time commitment to me.

yes but Balazar is not a tribe, not a cult. It's a land 😛

On 11/22/2023 at 3:32 AM, OrlanthRex said:

For example, a Rock Dwarf spending every waking hour working his masonry tasks for the Decamony wouldn’t be super productive if they have to sacrifice POW every time they cast cut/measure/shape or stabilize stone. 

it depends on what every time means.

If you need to use it every 10 years it is not so expensive. Stone doesn't need magic to be stable except when you start to build "crazy" things. You can build a bridge without any POW, just because you know (and dwarves know) how to use stone

same for the other domains. These spells are used only when the "rules" must be broken

i dislike this part of the design. This need of 90% time, etc.. Of coure rune level have obligation. But I feel the restrictions too binary. And it is hard to imagine that a waha shaman, a humakti sword and a issaries priest can work during 5 years togeter, living adventures every season anywhere in glorantha.... of course there is no character who does it, isn't it ?

In my opinion, there is a difference between mundane and spiritual (gods included)

So I introduce a split for any rune lord, priest, and shaman.

in the mundane world,

you are a sacred warrior of your cult ? You are a runelord, you need to spend 90%* of your time for your cult (aka obey hierarchy and do what they want), you don't earn money (90%* for the cult) but the cult will give you everything you need (of course social interaction). and.... that's all you don't have bonus to get more POW, etc...

you are dedictad to your cult and work in a temple ? you are a priest, you need to spend 90% of your time for your cult, you are respected by your community and you take your role in the cult's hierarchy.  You don't earn money (90%* for the cult) but as the cult is you, you can reasonably hope a better life than a majority

you have a fetch and are a spiritual leader of your community ? you are a shaman priest. Except there is less hierarchy, that is the same of a priest (my version).

Now...

you are so powerful and devoted to your god that your god choose you as a champion. Why ? ask your gm-god 🙂 You don't need to wait for your temple mission to move (aka no 90%* time restriction). You are free to decide HOW you will act like your god (aka no 90% income restriction). If you decide, you are an adventurer. If you decide, you are a runelord (if the cult welcome you, but why not)

you are so devoted and fit with your god's expectation that your god choose you as a holy person. Name you prophet, missionary, ermit, what you want. And act as your god (aka no 90%* restrictions). If you decide you are an adventurer. If you decide you are a priest (if the cult welcome you of course), if not... you are not supported by the community (or at least, it is a roleplay and specific situation, not a "standard" advantage of your position)

you are a shaman (you have a fetch) but you don't save your community. You may decide to travel everywhere, you may decide to hunt something/one. You may decide to offer to the world your witness or your powers... or your curses. You are what you are. Wolves live in packs but there are lone wolves

Of course, a large part (**) of rune lords are champions of their gods. Of course, a large part (**) of priests are holy people of their gods.

So a large part of runelords and priests are exactly following the rules of rqg. But heroes don't have to be so restricted by /bound to their community. A lot of heroes don't follow the rules for the best and the worse.

* some cults restrictions are less than 90%

**  imagine a community large enough to have a temple (so room for priesthood). Imagine this community is isolated (the ban, for example). But noone fit the requirements skills,etc..) Does that mean that noone will lead the cult and the worship ? Imo of course someone will take the job (ambition or sacrifice) So will have in my split the advantages and restrictions of a priest, but not the power given by the god. Good guy but not yet holy. Not yet the +20% for POW roll, etc...

14 hours ago, Joerg said:

What do you do with the rest of the harvested grain, linen, or cabbages? We have heard about temple and city granaries. Do farmers keep considerable amounts of their harvests in their homes?

an interesting point.

Without any historical knowledge about that, I keep it simple :

there are two kind of people for this process

the producers (farmer, herder, but the same with smith...)

and the "traders" (could be merchants of course, but could be earth temple, guild, etc...)

in a clan village

the producers are focus on production, they will probably not spend (waste) time to manage a caravan to sell what the village will not consume.

The local business is based on barter. You , farmer, need whool from the herder to sew a new coat, if you have enough grain you trade it, if not you trade a debt and you will pay next harvest. Probably that's something you can plan "hey herder, next sheep sheering time, save XXX whool for me !"

some richer (or smarter) producers will build some little warehouse or granary but I think that what they can't use (for their own consumption or to trade with their neighbourhood) go to those who can trade and stock

you must to be "rich" (at least if you compare with a farmer) to be a trader. Because you have stock, and capital asset. So here the different traders I imagine we may meet:

the community trader (Earth temple,...) able to mobilise the community to build the granary or the warehouse and thanks to the tith, with people who have time to manage it, ant sell the stock

the merchant, rich enough to pay people to build (if not yet done) the warehouse and able to organize the "import / export" business outside of the clan. These tasks have two options

1) you have a shop and are able to stock what caravans of other merchants or itinerant salesmen propose when they come

2) you have a caravan (or more) that you can send outside to sell and buy

in a town it is a little bit different.

Customers may come to you. So a craftman may organize the business differently and have a shop-production building. Don't need to travel, there are enough customers to absorb your production *.

I don't know if a town have its own herders/farmers to get a part of  its consumption or delegate anything to the clans and village around it (so merchants and caravans are key). But if they have, I would see there are some "contract" with the herders/farmers for the vital production. Is it a monopoly (the town pay every one in services or money but every one cannot sell outside) or a promise to absorb a large part of the production ? It may depends on the leaders , the culture (Yelm monopoly versus Orlanth promise ?) etc...

* (from a process perspective of course, you may have a bad reputation, the town may have difficulties and customers not enough money etc...)

10 hours ago, JRE said:

I assume Humakti temples hold frequent duels. Otherwise, how can the temple know who is better suited to be a Sword? Initiates duel initiates, Swords duel Swords to see who will become High Sword. With Gloranthan healing magic and probably agreements not to use powerful rune magic (except in grudge duels to the death), it is hard to kill someone outright, and Swords have divine intervention available. So Humakti holy days are like big game days or troll ball days.

so more "demonstration", "open training" (duel in the sense two single opponents) when I understood duel as fight to solve some offence.

yes why not. Now is it open to the public ? I don't see Humakti as the best entertainers 😛 but maybe one or two days per year/season, to spark some vocation (join the cult, or buy some training sessions)

45 minutes ago, JRE said:

Not really gladiatorial, but most Malkioni areas which are not at war, and a few that are at war, will have tournaments of all kinds

yep it was my idea too (and i like your tournament background by the way) however I fear if I have the bias of "medieval west" previous version (I disliked it but was impregnated/corrupted)

so don't know if it is still the case ?

46 minutes ago, JRE said:

In many orlanthi lands, Humakti duels will be considered as entertainment as well.

yes entertainment but more by "opportunity" -2 humakti have a "serious" reason to duel, not to entertain the people. I imagine there is not a ufc-like organization that every week/season/xxx propose a meeting with 3 or 4 humakti duel. I see them more like some bushido code, you duel with your cult-mate to solve a question of honor (yours, your clan's if you are its champion, ...)

So for me Humakti duel, if people will come, it is more because a word-of-mouth will say that tomorrow Foo and Bar will fight because Bar told that Foo's sword was not enough shiny to please his god. Not because there is a poster campaign to annouce what artists will fight in the usual arena for the well established summer championship

9 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Slightly off topic but would the Lunars have feed humans to animals in the Monster Coliseum for entertainment and if so would they have been from anywhere pending who was at war with them at the time?

animals, chaos monsters, vampires, ... a lot of thing are entertainment. but it may depends on the culture (I agree with lunars, but is there Orlanthi culture of gladiators ?

Is death an option or always the outcome ? Who choose (the crowd, the leader, the priest, some judges...) Are gladiators just casual volunteers or professionals, trained slaves,. etc.. or rebels as a solution for hungry lions, a lot of options are possible)

9 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Add the Bat and you have an insatiable need for blood to feed various elements of the Empire?

In my opinion not the bat. It is not a show, she is too big, too dangerous. Anyone, even lunars (still imo) would try to avoid her. but les powerful chaotic individuals yes.

Are seshnegi happy to see some gladiators ? maybe not to death, except if they are "renegade" or heretic ?)

What about the far east ? ...

so a lot of questions and answers may be different (participants, reasons, conclusion) depending on the locals

Don't know 🙂