French Desperate WindChild

Hello all

is there a RQG book (already written or planned) describing what is draconic way(s) for human being in dragon pass ?

rules + background.

I imagine something like a cult book, with requirements, benefits, skills and spells, passions and values, etc...

 that could be helpful for gm like me : ok the background says they are draconic mystics... and ? well there are draconic mystics 😜

After all players may want their characters to become draconic mystics (or any other term) or just to meet some of them in  a way different than a weird "decor or extra"

Of course I can create spells, etc... but I can do that for Orlanth, Seven Mothers, Yelm, etc... too. So the point is more what is the standard than how I can manage it by myself.

thanks a lot !

16 hours ago, Snugz said:

i.e. dead, weakly glimmering  stars in the Underworld "sky" (upper Underworld or something)?

Maybe former Sky Realm stars; or parodies/nightmares of them?

for me, if there is something glimmering, it is probably trail of the Sun's (and co) blood, son on the ground or potential walls, not upper (except if upper is a solid ceiling of a cave or something like that, something where blood from an underground battle was blown over.

However that doesn't mean there is nothing upper, in an "open" darkness but imo, not something of light, just some "monster", "demon" (from a human perspective) or any kind of nice  darkness resident

I dislike (personaly, no offense) the concept of "mirroring" the sky in the hell (in Glorantha). For me Darkness is Darkness, it is "rich" by its own nature(s), that's not a copy of an unimaginative devil. It is the source  of the world

16 hours ago, Snugz said:

if you looked up in a fairly open space in Gloranthan Hell, would you see stars?

but there is at least one place where, maybe you can see the stars (the "true" stars)

There is a hole in mundane plan, if you jump or fly or try to climb down, well... you probably starve, but your body, dead or alive, land into the hell.

So at this darkness place, if you look up (and have enough vision to see so far) you may see a star or two ?

1 hour ago, Runeblogger said:

I would have said no, since the parrying shield or weapon is acting as armor. 😳

I would have said no too, but for another reason: I imagine that Death power acts against life power. And none of shield weapon and even spirits are alive (in my understanding of live)

But if Death acts against anything, your armor point is not an issue: the armor effect of the shield and weapon applies as usual then the damage (against the parrying weapon) is doubled as any damage from a blessing weapon.

I would prefer only apply on living (well if you bargain well, I accept spirits 😛 ) but not against metal or dead wood

Is there a "mythic" reason or is it just to make it simple ?

On 2/16/2024 at 5:39 PM, Super Thunder Bros. said:

3 - I want my clans local trade town to be something like a wild west or a Mad Max Bartertown situation. Think The Warriors style groups feuding and fighting to be in charge of the settlement, large underground space for each of the factions. It's a place of trade and whoever's in charge get's the profits. All out war is bad for business but gang wars between groups do pop up (May even throw in a Thunderdome!)

i imagine that this local situation can be found in an oasis in Prax;

You will find a nomad clan (your gang)

- brutalizing the local helpless oasis people

- extorting the potential mobile merchants

- managing access for the local (and ridiculous) trade place, and, most importan,the water water and the grass

there may be a lot of competition:

- with other clans of the same tribe, probably a tradition of  little assistance but decorated by some jealousy (the wealth, the slaves, the love, ...)

- with other "peaceful" clans from other tribes, leaders may not accept the leadership of this clan  (or even this tribe) "It is not because we are in peace that they have right to appropriate this oasis where my ancestor installed his tents one century ago)

- with neutral clans. "I need water for my beasts why do you refuse ? I accept to pay" "the price you request is too high" " I want to trade, give me respect"

- with hostile clans. "Let's wait for the night and we will raid the oasis once they are drunk. We will have good meat and new women tomorrow"

2 hours ago, Kvott said:

Hmmm... perhaps this means that... 

"Mundane Benefits

Initiates of Ernalda are under the protection of Ernalda’s local husband. The local priestess will cast Bless Crops upon their lands." Pagw 18 Earth cults

... that the priestess Blesses the husbands crops... hmmm. "Their" should refer to plural initiates.

Anyhow. If there is a battle the priestesses are there with healing etc. But not without rp. 

well if you want to play a priestess see what are the duties of a priestess by raw 🙂

there is even no requirement to know bless crops to be a priestess.

here you report the benefits of initiates which is not exactly the same thing.

so for playing a character I don't see any issue. If now the question is more about how "stable" is the world build, it is clear there are some points to discuss, but is it really important for a role playing game rules ?

39 minutes ago, Kvott said:

What fun is it for a Runepriest player to bind all their runepoints 3 seasons? 

For me priest should be played in « local campaign » not for « adventuring campaign »

except of course if there is a good reason to meet a priest who does what he wants without any responsibility for a community

with rqg there is no need to be priest to cast divine magic. Initiates can do this. The other benefits are less powerful so don’t understand where is the trouble. Playing a priest should be to play a priest not to get minor benefit and staying the same character

45 minutes ago, Kvott said:

. And then why is it something the priest is required to do RAW

Again RAW don’t say that an Ernaldan priestess must use her rune pool to bless crops for everyone at her maximum

( I may be wrong but I don’t see it anywhere)

48 minutes ago, Kvott said:

Clearly, initiates themselves can Bless their own crops

And some do. And probably priestesses will answer if initiates know the spell « why do you ask me to do what you are able to do yourself ? »

50 minutes ago, Kvott said:

My question is why is the text wrong?

And my answer is the text I read doesn’t say you must cast all you rp for three seasons.
However the text says that priest must spend 90% of their time in the temple. there is for me the issue for those who want to play a priest without temple duties (aka adventurers) and without good reasons (reasons from a glorantha perspective, so my point about gm and player agreement)

i really don't understand where is the issue 🙂

3 minutes ago, Kvott said:

she will do what is required

but what is required ? maybe one sacred hide must be blessed in the clan lands. But others no, it is the priestess choice. If the priestess doesn't accept to bless the hides of the ring's favorite it is a relationship potential issue (and an interesting plot for social scenario), not a cult's duty.

the cult's duty is :

Quote

Priestesses must provide for the welfare of their community and bless them and their crops with available magic. They are subject to the commands of the local husband-deity’s priests and lords. I

there are three key words in my opinion: welfare, available and command.

- if the welfare of the community is guarantee (stocks, good weather, good seeds, etc...) no need to burn your rune pool, if the community risks or is starving, so yes, as a priest you must use your available magic to save them. If a pregnancy is dangerous, yes the priestess has to find something. But if everything is well, that's fine, no obligation to use Ernalda's power.

And those who can command you to do (aka burn your rp against your wish) are local leaders. If they abuse their power, that's another interesting plot for a social scenario. If you character dislikes these orders, maybe others dislike how the leaders use their power too. Maybe there are some political struggle to organize... Find a champion, use it as lover or husband or anything, obtain by some oracle that we are cursed, things must be changed, maybe conclusion will be an election, maybe a duel (not you, but your champion), maybe a civil conflict, maybe a split of the clan. Who knows.

22 minutes ago, Kvott said:

I would prefer a soft rule like: Only one Bless Crops is cast per hide

I m not sure that gloranthan are able to determine how many RP are used by someone else. But even if they do, it is not a question of game design (aka chaosium rules), it is a question of gloranthan characters. They have to decide what they do or don't.so if your character decides that only one rp is used per hide, it is her choice. Or if your character is not on the top of the hierachy and dislike what the leader of your character's cult decide, it is up to her (aka you player of course) to decide if she obey or not (back to the social plot point)

Imo, priesthood (runelord and shaman included, and in a minor way, god talker too) should be discussed between the player and the gm. What the GM expects from the player, what the player expects from the campaign.

In some cases, GM+player(s) may decide that duty are only time and income requirement. So RP use is up to the player and priest is just a "new level" of the character with new "abilities"

In some cases, GM+player(s) may decide that duty are only income and activity (part of time, part of rp) used to the "welfare" of the cult. Time then is like before you can do what you want 4 weeks per season.

In some cases, GM+player(s) may decide that the character's duty is not the "standard" priest's duty , because the pc is "special", or have "special mission". So duty is specific for this pc.

In some cases, GM+player(s) may decide that the campaign is not about looking for adventure and visiting the world, but about the clan life (sometimes with outisder/pilgrinage, etc.. but most of the scenarios take place in the tula) then there is no more rules duty -aka no more 90% income, 90% times, etc...) but cult duty. You must find a way to protect your initiates, respect the expectation of you clan, enrich your temple, obtain a place in the ring, become the (new) clan chief's (new) wife, become the clan chief without husband (I mean if you are Ernalda's priestess) or any ambitious plan you player wants your character have.

"too" rare is a question of taste  🙂

in my Glorantha, priests and priestesses are not here just to cast spells for everything/everyone or anything/anyone. They are here to maintain the gods pleasure and prevent any curse from them. They are here to worships the gods.

So happy are the people if the harvest is good (normal roll in sacred time) . That means the priestesses did the job. No rune pool impacted, so no, the standard blessing of Ernalda is not "too" rare. It is even "free" and almost "automatic"

Now the gods offer their priests (and initiates) some mundane powers they can use at their discretion* . And then, yest it could be rare. That's why people are happy to have priestess from their family/bloodline. To have an advantage. To have better harvest than their neighbours. Is it too rare ? No as it is a "bonus" in addition of the "natural" blessing of Ernalda.

That's, for me the main difference between priest rune pool and initiate rune pool.

Priests and priestesses are supported by the clan to help the clan.

A good priestess will save her runepool to solve "her" clan issue. A bad priestess will use her runepool for personal advantage.

Initiates (and pc) have not such duty, but in the other hand, the clan does not provide them a "noble" lifestyle.

* well, in my glorantha again, gods are able to refuse the cast of the spell.. for our Ernalda example, if a priestess cast bless crops on a hide of a tomb robber, nothing happens (no blessing). If she insists, her goddess may reduce her powers (neutral relationship), curse the priestess (bad relationship) or is visited by the goddess in her dreams (good relationship). If she doesn't understand, well the relationship may decrease. If she solves the issue (aka investigation, maybe with help of Maran or Bab's followeres) the relationship may increase.

are jails. Once inside you can't get away.

How Styx became water is a mystery, except if we consider that, as there is no inside, every thing is possible.

How Umath succeeded to leave is a mystery too, but the effort was so strong than killed him

Heler loves freedom, change and discovery. She was and is still able to change to himself. He decided to visit the sky and deliver its people, then she was a conqueror,

But is a hidden jail for Heler. Yes you go forward, but once you visit the top, you go to the bottom, then to the top, in an infinite cycle of waves. So Heler looked for something else. He met rlanth, and discovered an infinite range of possibles, seeing how the air wheel can spread the ashes of the old world in all directions. Then she became rlanth friend and lover.

Heler did not betrayed Water. Water betrayed Heler, making false promises of freedom when only one direction is possible.

1 hour ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

OTOH, the guest did proclaim, in their part of the Hospitality Ritual, that they came as a friend, won't steal or bear arms, etc... 

I fully agree

1 hour ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

If the Ogre came with the intent of murdering and eating a villager, they lied.

mmm , who can say if they lied ? while the ogre does nothing against the village, you cannot blame this guy you have welcomed in your land and in your contest. Rules must be followed.

And that's the drama of the scenario, it is too late :

1) once he is accepted, until he starts to "eat" you can't do nothing against him (except be the winner of the contest of course) because you break the law (hospitality and contest)

2) once he starts to "eat" and only when it is known, you (the community leaders) are facing a big issue :

- in all cases, you have introduced chaos in Ernalda festival, so the goddess will be less benevolent than usual (but the community can do more sacrifice, some cleansing ritual, etc...) to not be cursed

- if you kill the ogre before the end of the contest, you create breaches in the ritual (even if you decide to continue), the goddess will not be happy at all

- if you don't kill the ogre and the ogre become the winner, it is worst ! all the community is cursed, and there is nothing to do to purify (very bad harvest), you can only undercute the consequences for the next year (just bad harvest), hope that in addition, the ogre will not do too many things.. Next year will be a better year, if the community does all its possible to serve the goddess.

the best solution is to win honestly,  if possible with a true love as conclusion. (then cut a head, of course, but only ... after the wedding night... or maybe... during it ?)

Responsability is to fix the mistake. That's not the first time than Air people introduces chaos. But that is not a reason  to not suffer blame for that.

22 minutes ago, Ian A. Thomson said:

Not being within 15m of him

How quickly can we get the local Stormbulls over here within 15m of this guy to see if they get any hits too

 

in my opinion the people who want to be selected for the contest have to introduce themselves to the ring / important people. In a place like prax, of course storm khans count - or if not storm khan, the most important/influent initiates -.

So the local Stormbulls, the main at least, checked them during this introduction.

I think the point is how to interpret this ability.

If you are convinced sense of chaos is overpowered, there is no issue. Never the ogre can pass. And the scenario (and any scenario with chaos in pavis or any city with storm bullies) makes a mistake.

but if, like me, you are convinced sense of chaos is as any skill, is fallible, there are room to put chaos anywhere you want. There is just to find a reason.

In garrhound contest, it is because the local did not notice anything.

In Pavis it is because, although any security system you can use, there are breaches the chaos followers can detect.

Somewhere use divination ? nice but...did people understand what the god said ? we know that divination is not 100% reliable, not because the god, but because the guy -who hears the god- understanding is not 100% reliable

Even in the block, because there is so luch chaos just "under" that the sense cannot detect anything important, as it is always in fire.

if you want chaos somewhere, you have chaos somewhere. Of course, you don't have very visible broos in the block, but you can have smart and well prepared ogre - if the GM wants for the game of course-

4 hours ago, Diadochoi said:

Garhound has 800 inhabitants, there will be local Storm Bulls as well.

yes and it is an important point :

8 hours ago, Ian A. Thomson said:

My presumption is only that any such claim would be investigated due to the massive importance of the sacred validity of the contests, and I stand by that, at least as soon as it looks like he stands a chance of winning

and the local storm bulls did not detect the ogre.

So the question is :

- when your own storm bulls, those you know, those who want, like you, to have a good festival, because it is fine for the community, did not see any issue with this Argan Argari, weird yes that is true, not like a young praxian uses to meet, that's true too. But this guy, with intelligence and charm...

- and when a young praxian, someone you don't know, someone a little bit... dumb ? and someone who is a competitor (does'nt seem the best candidate right ?) accuse without evidence except "hey I have this divine sense, more powerfull than any of your own champions of the bull, and this sense tells to me that this competitor must be killed before I lose against him...

Who will you believe ?

And even when you know that this guy is chaotic, it is too late. You are facing the problem described when people discover the truth. It is too late, killing a competitor is a curse, having this competitor as winner is a curse. What to do is the key of the scenario after all

38 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

P.275 which I and others have quoted above contradicts this. You can learn a spell without expending POW.

not for me

the main rule I follow is p314

Quote

For each point of POW sacrificed, the adventurer acquires the right to cast an additional cult special Rune magic spell. As the magical link between the cultist and the
deity deepens, the adventurer also gains a broader use of the deity’s power.

That doesn't mean p275 contradicts anything : I consider that p275 explains when you are allowed to learn magic.

P275 is, for me, the background perspective (aka explanation for the GM to say when a priest will use the temple's resources to teach a spell, that's not just "hey I'm initiate, I want to learn a spell right now !") 

when p314 define the design perspective (POW sacrifice = a better magical link between cultist and deity)

I would however ask a rune death roll for the « strong presentation of the death rune »

i would even accept a passion roll if the player would like to not use their death rune. 
But at least something to « prove » the determination 
 

Evil (chaotic) action gives imo probability to get/increase the chaotic rune. some are automatic but a lot are not

so you may be tainted by only one « mistake » when those guys may not be tainted by a lot of evil deeds

there is somewhere a table describing the % of chance you have be tainted depending  on the deed

of course I don’t have the reference , but I saw it in this forum (was about cannibalism if I remember )

there are a lot of things to consider

1) sense chaos is a skill with hight potential of failure. Ok people start with 20+ but how many may have 90% ? for me few, very few

2) how many times do you accept to reroll a sense chaos ? when a) the storm bull cannot know if the "roll" was a failure or success. b) gloranthan don't roll sense chaos, they feel, they estimate. So a self-confident bully will accept the first "result" as a truth, when the doubting will maybe to "check" again. but how many bully do you consider as doubting and fearing their own mistakes ? for me few, very vew

3) how many people trust all the times the bully conclusion ? There are enough mistakes in their memory . So how many Pavis ruler (or any big city) will consider to at least start investigation after the alert? for me all, because if not, you will have less merchants or some organization with "confirmed by storm bull" or improve the SB cult power not only by their natural fighting skills but by the money and politic. Will you, as a ruler, accept to create an artificial counter power, based on people you can't trust to make peace ( is a storm bull rune) ?

4) how many gates you have in Pavis ? For each gate, you need storm bullers guards. You will not ask the most skills bullies to do this kind of stuff, right. So you needs all the time 2-3 bullies per gate to expect something successful enough.  How much time can you expect a bully to stay in place, welcome merchants and customers (yes welcome, because you want your place to be a nice place, where rich foreigners are happy to visit) ? i can't imagine, that a nice () bully will stay ()  a long time in place to follow orders ()  In my opinion you can't expect SB to guards all the gates all the time.

5) even if you have enough SB guards, as a city ruler, will you expect "tourists" to be happy to wait in a queue for a long time , suffuring a paranoid atmosphere ;

 - why do they check so much chaos ? because THERE ARE A LOT OF CHAOS HERE ? Oh gods, I will never come back in such chaotic place

- why do the rulers accept these barbarians to treat peaceful people with brutality, scorn and insult ? Oh gods, I will never come back in such violent place

- etc

6) If I were a krasht temple (so I have time for me right), I will send non chaotic people (thieves, or anyone you can manipulate) to check toe opportunity to create tunnels and other hidden ways to enter the city (in addition, you have rubble where noone rules really it.

phase A) manipulate people who accept to organize (detecting breach, tunneling, etc...)

phase B) send your first initiate(s) (with at least the one who is expected to be the priest of the new temple) to identify the best place to build the new temple

phase C) create the temple

and it is done.

7 minutes ago, Diadochoi said:

But how does a Krarsht Temple/Cult stay hidden with a Storm Bull Temple/cult in the same city?

detect chaos is few meters range. and Krasht temples are in very deep underground place. Use non chaotic guards to survey who is near the secret entrances. So non detectable by SB. And probably not aware of the real purpose of their missions, so if they are forced to tell "their truth", they will just say they are working for some local thugs gang

On 2/7/2024 at 11:26 PM, Jens said:

It's only your Rune Point pool (per cult) that is restricted by your CHA- while the normal way of learning a rune spell is to sacrifice a point of POW and both increase your pool while learning a new spell, it is possible to learn a new rune spell without increasing your rune points, and vice versa.

I agree however I would precise (or we disagree 😛 )

1) rune point pool (per cult) is restricted by your CHA

2) to learn a special rune spell you must sacrifice 1 POW to your deity - even if the spell is 2RP 3RP: learning = 1RP)

3) when you sacrifice 1 POW to your deity , you increase your RP by 1 (with the limit of CHA), the only exceptions I see are the mandatory sacrifice for ceremony and enchantments

4) the first POW you sacrifice during your initiation allows you to learn all the common spells (at least those offered by the cult) AND 1 special rune spell.

so

- if you learn a rune spell, you lose 1 POW. If your RP is equals to your CHA, this POW sacrifice offers only the knowledge of the spell but no RP increase

- once you have learn all the spells, you can continue to sacrifice POW to increase your rune pool (with the limit of CHA) --> i m not sure in core rules, but at least in Q&A in this forum

but in fact, if you want, you can sacrifice POW to increase your RP, without learning spell . There are several reasons:

- not all temples are able to teach alle the spells, so we are facing the situation of "once you have leanr all the spells" [you have access] " you can continue to sacrifice POW"

- because the last not known spells are "forbidden" for this character: For example a weirdos Orlanth adventurer who suffers acrophobia or swore to never fly years ago, will not learn how to fly, that doesn't mean he is not devotee to his god

- or just by player decision, ok it is not "efficient" but if a player want to, I allow it of course.

and you can sacrifice POW without increasing you RP, without learning any spell, just because... you want (devotion, etc..)

On 2/6/2024 at 9:11 PM, Bohemond said:

but in a magic-rich culture like Glorantha that doesn't seem likely.

Crystal is magic but not all magic is crystal. So you can't conclude that because magic is everywhere in Glorantha, crystal is everywhere in Glorantha (or conclude the opposite)

Now the only hint I have is based on the holy country supplement (decades ago) There is one rune lord npc who has a living crystal. It is said that he gained it during an heroquest, BUT the crystal is not his own. The crystal is just lent by the cult. The rune lord can use it but will have to give it back to the cult one day.

Then, my conclusion (but our glorantha may vary, depends on a lot of things and taste  🙂 ) :

Based on the fact that -in holy country at least- one rune lord needs a heroquest to obtain a crystal and even after this heroic journey, he is not the real owner.

my Glorantha says he had no opportunity to buy a crystal in a market, even in Pavis market.

my Glorantha says, in most cases, crystal are clan or temple treasure and would be ransomed in case of raid or other struggle. As it is a living part of a god, the point is not only it is a +2 bonus. It is a sacred object, a divine relic. It is most most most valuable than the "equivalent" spirit spell

my Glorantha says, if a community lose a crystal from its own pantheo, the community is cursed and must do a lot of things to get back the relic.

my Glorantha says, pc may obtain a crystal by several ways:

1)  plunder (or buying the result of a plunder - black market, ... etc - ). Fine, but pc should expect to meet one day or another some "hunters" from the plundered community, or from any temple looking for this kind of relic (the cult of the god's crystal, but why not some ennemy cult)

2) heroquesting for their clan/temple/community. As they get the support of the community, what they get back is for the community. But, as our Yelmalio rune lord example, it coud be fair that the community loan the crystal for a decade or two

3) heroquesting for themselves. If they are able to visit the heroplan without any support *, the crystal they get back is them... except if their leaders (if they have) enjoyed to have the crystal for their community of course...(or for them but they are their community, right ? 😛 )

4) from their community to help them to succeed a mission. Once the mission is successful (what ? do you believe pc could fail !)  the crystal should return to the community treasure.

5) randomly. But that's not because you find something lost in a cave or in a wood that there is no rightful owner (or people claiming they are the rightful owners) so back to 1) and 3)

* HQ without support : I Don't know if it is possible or not from an official perspective --> no published rule = no confirmation

imo

priests of "regular" cult (those who are not shaman) can only teach spirit spell the cult provides (how, I m not sure, see shiningbrow's topic. Are there spirits who are summoned and teach ? are you able to teach a spell you know yourself ? even with a level you don't have/know ? aka you know bladesharp 2, are you able to teach bladesharp 3 ? a mix of all of that ? ... )

in the same way an officiant of a spirit cult is able to teach spirit spell the cult provides

BUT, in addition, you may find shaman who are the officiant of a spirit cult (or sometimes of a "regular" cult. And shaman can teach you any spell they may "find" in the spirit world.

so for me, in a world where there are entities source of magic (call them gods for the greater ones, powerful entities, spirits, what you want), everything follows the same rules :

a) you may "bargain" with an entity as an individual to obtain some magic. (like a shaman, but as usual, there is always another way)

b) you can join a cult. The cult may offer/teach any type of magic if you have the permission, by logic (sorcery like LM), by secret ceremony (rune spell and initiation), or just by access to the source (spirit spell)

- b1) When this cult is well established, there are temples, hierarchies, process, organization, etc.. The leaders are often focused on the entity they call god, and somewhere lost the ability (or the desire) to work with other entities, spirits, etc.. as the pantheon provides enough to help life. In that case, the only source of spirit spells are from spirit who have a kind of allegiance to the god.

- b2) When this cult is secret or just very little, it is called a spirit cult. And sometimes the spirit cult is so little that when the "creator" dies (the one who was the first to "bargain" with the entity),  no one is able to join the entity and the cult collapses. As there are very few worshippers/initiates, the only way to honor the covenant is to use shaman path. But even if they are shaman, the can lead secret ceremony  (rune spell and initiation)

- b3) and sometimes, for any reason*, a well established  cult has not forgotten the spirit path. And you will find in its organization an established position (or positions) for shamans, shamans with probably more taboos than "autonomous" shamans, but with easiest and established process to bargain with spiritw who are friendly with the entity.

* maybe, a cult has shaman because the pantheon is based on this supreme divinity -like Aldrya, KL, Waha ...- who provides "every thing to survive" (via large spirit magic "offer") and propose just few very specialized/optimized deities in some domain (but not enough domains/deities to cover everything a community need)

imo, but just ... imo

1) We know that shaman "teach" spirits spell via spirits. So the process should be "ask to someone who can order specific  spirits to teach (or implant in) you the spell"

2) Maybe it is not all the spirits but only some specifics who have the ability to implant some knowlegde. I would say that the spirits are "spirit teachers" (or teacher spirits ? hey you are my english teacher @Shiningbrow, it is up to you 😛 )

3) Rune levels have an authority initiate don't have (delegation from the big boss, aka the god). So they can order things others can't. In our case, command a "spirit teacher"

4) then I transform "they can teach any spell they know" in "they can order any spirit they know to teach the spell the spirit can teach"

the point 1) allows to consider there is only one way to learn a spirit spell, whatever the "school/tradition/cult" you follow. And this way is spirit teach, not mundane people

the point 2) allows to consider that is not because you meet someone (dryad, allied spirit, anything... ) that you can learn from them a spirit spell. Maybe, maybe not. The spirit must have the ability to teach a spell. It allows however a spirit (dryad, allied spirit,anything...) to teach some spells and not others

the point 3) is just another example of what means hierarchy. The question is not what you can do technically, but what you are allowed to do. So summon if you want, but if you cast  your divine spell to command something you don't have the right to do, the cult spirit will refuse (or the god will refuse to "cast" the command spell).

the point 4) is just what orangutan has teached me : "if you are not comfortable on your feet, use your hands"  (or maybe "use your feet when your hands are not confortable" my level in orangutan is worse than my english) In all cases it works !

but that's not what you are looking for, right ? you want official answer 😛

On 1/30/2024 at 8:04 PM, Ali the Helering said:

That wasn't my point I am afraid, and if it came over that way I apologise.  The question is a matter of in what way that utility is expressed.  It isn't that we approach a deity to cynically obtain a blessing, but rather that we approach the deity because we live within their 'power-environment'.  This is not least why the early Christians were accused of being atheists - they didn't participate in the 'power-environment' of the empire or the city.  In so doing they laid themselves open to the charge of atheism, which was synonymous with treason.

🤣😇🤣🤣 😇

so probably we did not understand each other 🙂

my point is my* god must have power to be in (or to be) your*  'power-environment'

when the god is in the power-environment, yes i agree with you (of course). I play runequest, not XXX 😛

22 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Not really, there will always be people who'll need to stay behind to care for said elderly, or care for young children, etc. Now, granted, some of those will themselves will be the older kids and the comparatively more able-bodied and clear-minded elderly, but there'll always be a minimum of "regular" adults. 

Then there's the the need to care for the animals. There's just no avoiding that. Older kids can do a lot, but you'll still need some adults. 

Lastly, I presume some potentially-armed adults need to stay behind just to guard the stead. At least attempt to prevent counter-raids, or keep watch, and so forth. 

There's also maintenance. Things still need fixing, producing, collection, etc

I agree with you for all these roles / activities  but what I see is most of them are managed by Ernaldan, old Orlanthi (people too old for war, but "young" enough to manage it), disabled people (regrow limbs is not for everyone), and peaceful/oath/ any "passion" blocking the call of war. Probably some real militiamen to guard the stead but not so much (retired veteran can do that too)

Now all of that is based on "milicia" mean fighting people. If "milicia" mean fighting people + non-fighting supports (heal, supply, etc...), it may be different

about food, I believe (i may be wrong) that if you use militia for a long time it is for defensive purpose, so they are in their lands, they know their wild, they have access to their supplies, etc. You will not send your militia too far and too long just because you need too much support (and you need arms for earth season activities. One raid for your feud yes, a big campaign no.

a question could be

do ennemies attacks because

- they hate Ernalda ?

- they hate agricultural communities ?

- they hate Pavis ?

- they hate human beings ?

- they want to plunder, no hate, just money ?

I mean Ernala is not the only reason why some would attack an Ernaldan festival

for me heroquesting is to solve an issue :

- you want to defeat your community's ennemy

- you want to save your people from any disaster

- you want your community to corner some resources

- you want to save the world (or your community's world)

so the intent is to power your community (restore or obtain). Gaining some personal benefit is a positive side effect more as a reward of the potential sacrifice questors do (they risk their lives and souls after all) than the main goal.

Questors should be happy and proud if they succeed to help their community even if they get nothing for themselves from the heroplane.

And their people will praise them for that (and some of their leaders may want their death for that too... jealousy / fear.... when you hold us 🙂 )

I m talking about critical heroquests, not those -easy- to learn a rune spell. Even if, I m sure, temple -so community- do effort to support the learning so somewhere learning the spell is to strengthen the community too.

Except for lone adventurers of course... except for bad / evil / chaotic questors too

now, from a table (GM / player) perspective yes exploring the myth may be the goal.

Not for gloranthan characters or maybe only for few fool scholars

from another table, power gaming (having better stats, better stuff, etc...) may be the goal too.

Not for gloranthan characters, glorantha is not a game for them, it is their world, or maybe only for few fool "illuminates" (not the illumination in the nysalor and other school sense, but just as these fool weirdos)

On 1/24/2024 at 1:40 PM, finmirage said:

I wrote down the Hero Questing rules, I use at my table. They are made for the RQ Glorantha rules and are dependent on the runes that you have in that system. The rules were inspired by Simon Phipp's excellent web page and various other discussions I've ran into online:
https://finmirage.blogspot.com/2023/11/quick-hero-questing-rules-for-rune.html

very interesting, thanks for it 🙂

my feed back just to share it, no judgement

Overall I think it very consistent, simple, not overpowered just like I like things

Your choice to remove the mundane system (no skill, no magic, etc) to replace it with rune + hit points allows a lot of things. But I don't know if I would use it for all (I'm thinking in the same time)

Hit points:

- I like the concept.

- I would not add the mundane magic point (too temporary) but maybe the POW (ok it is the same, but no matrix, etc.. just the soul of the character)

- As the character plays the role of a deity, I would add 100% of the RP from the deity cult if the pc is initiate+ in this cult. If not initiate 50% of the best RP the pc may have among associated cults of the deity (ex: A plays Orlanth and is Orlanth's priest with a  rune pool of 10, I had 10 hit points. B plays Issaries but is not initiate of Issaries mysteries, she is only Vinga initiates with 4 RP, I add 2 hit points)

- I see your hit points as fuel (to "cast" what they want) and help to fix issues they will face (see below)

Community support rituals

- Nothing to add 🙂

No magic use

- here I m embarrassed (not sure of the word) In one hand I understand it, in the other hand, some issues.

a) divine power (i voluntary don't use rune spell, but that's the point) If the pc know how to call winds in mundane world, they should have facilities to call winds in the other world, comparing to another questor. So if you know the spell, your cost (hit points) could be lower (-50% ?) than if you don't know the spell (and if you get a success ? or a  special ?, with POW sacrifice, you know the spell)

b) as cults teach some spirit magics, I would consider that pc may use the equivalent of spirit magic. Maybe (just an idea, like the rest, that could be challenged) pc can use their spirit magic at a higher cost if the god/cult doesn't teach it (x 2 ?), but in the other way, the questor may have access to all the "spirit" magics known by the god (in the same way than a). The basic cost (you and the god you play know the spell) could be 1 hit point for 2 spirit magic intensity (aka 1 hit point = bladesharp 2)

c) sorcery. I have absolutly no idea about sorcery. My concern is how to explain what god learners did in the god time if sorcery doesn't work ?

Metaphysical Equipment

- I agree with your definition.

- Now I would say that, if you start the travel with the right mask, the right type of weapons, the right bag of grain, etc ... any "symbol" of the metaphysical equipment (so you are well prepared) the quest would be easier.

- Then enters the hit points: if at station D you don't have the bag of grain (not because you lost it during the heroquest but because you did not enter with a bag of grain) then you should "buy" the bag of grain invocation  with some hit points

Stations

well we have the same references, thanks to Simon 🙂

Resolution

- I dont know, in one hand yes the rune must be important, but maybe, if you are a powerfull climber you should be able to use your skill.

Maybe the good compromise would be : you roll your rune as you said. But you have to roll an augment with the skill (or something else) You have to, it is not an option. If you succeed you get the bonus, if you fail, you get the malus, etc.. then your Rune is important, but at the same level of rune, the one who knows how to climb  will have more chance than ... me 🙂

In addition I would offer something that if you burn 1,3,8 hp you may add +10,+20,+30% to your roll

Path Deviation

yes, and I would add that you may have to "buy" the price of this deviation (= hit points, again). Don't know the cost, but if you are the same god, lower than if you change, same with the period (green age versus darkness age, etc..

Failure

great

Other stuff

great

Rewards and consequences

there is the purpose of the quest, and the consequences may apply, depending on the success of each station, on the community

from a questor perspective, I would add something with the hit points

What you describe as gain (skills,etc...) could be bought and not automatic. For example, with the death rune, Rolof succeed his fight with a sword. Rather than getting a d6% in sword, Rolof may have the possibility to buy 1, 2 or 3d6% (for 1, 3 or 8 hit points you saved during the quest)

Same for spirit spell (1 hit point per 1 point of spirit spell) or new rune spell / heroic spell (1 hit point for a 1 RP spell, 3 hp for a 2RP spell, 8 hp for a 3RP spell) in addition of a pow sacrifice, maybe 1 POW for any spell (1, 2 or 3RP)

Then more you are prepared (saving HP), more you fit with the myth (saving HP), more successful you are (saving HP), better will be the gain

And if you finish the quest with 0 HP, happy you are as you offer to your community the gain of the quest, even if you did not discovered any power (except the rune experience)

I choose 1 3 8 from Fibonacci sequence (1 - 2 - 3 - 5 - 8 ...)