French Desperate WindChild

4 hours ago, glarkhag said:

So one pack is indeed 5% and killing the last pack could take 20 melee rounds (or more) if they have 100% attack

or the rats-gm may decide after a time that the fight is enough and they flee. After all, ennemies don't fight until death all the time.

that could be because a noise (does someone bigger  approach ?) too much blood, or any reasons

when it starts to be boring... do what you want/need

7 hours ago, Ali the Helering said:

I really don't see how such a being could become that god

what I meant is that choosing a god (among your cultural pantheon) because its utility Or because it is your god's profession is exactly the same

if it is the god's profession it is because the god is very good (if not the best) in the profession so it is useful for you, professional

And in the other way, choosing a god for its utility for your profession (or your way of life) is choosing the same god that all professionals (or those following the same path than you) choosed before you (aka the profession's god)

6 hours ago, Joerg said:

The question is whether such a god will have a cult and initiates, or whether the god will be an associate of one of the greater temples with a shrine and a single rune spell, or a spirit cult with a shaman or godspeaker officiating for the guild.

Most professional cults don't offer much in the way of answering the big questions or offering an afterlife (other than endless toil).

Oh I agree, it seems profession's god are worshipped as subcult of the god of all, potentialy of your "caste" (orlanth, ernalda, lodril, kl, etc...) or with a double initiation. What I understand is a profession's god has its one independant cult when the god is more than an extra in the film showing the main myths  of your pantheon. So Issaries, LM, etc.. but not Odayla

9 hours ago, Ali the Helering said:

Merchants don't worship Issaries/Etyries/Lokarnos for utility, but because they are the gods of their profession.

Is there really a difference ? As individual, I agree with you, you join your [local] profession's cult, in the same way that you join the guild (well... probably the guild is the cult or a subcult)

But in a world where gods actions are visible and not discussed at all (aka this entity exists there is no doubt. The question is more "is it good to worship it or not"),

I m not sure that carpenters will follow the god of carpenters if it is known that this god is unable to work wood (so unable to bless wood workers).

In fact the god of carpenters is the god of carpenters because it is the god who have mastered/created Carpentry.

11 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Since Darkness is an element, it's not merely the absence of light. However, it's hard to see how tapping darkness wouldn't make the place less dark. Perhaps there's a neutral, gloomy spot that you get if neither Darkness nor Light is there, and tapping either brings you closer to it but not past it?

grey !

I imagine that when souls (trolls or humans or any other) "visit" the hells, before entering there own wonder home / hall / .., they walk in a sad path, where there is nothing confortable. No light to warm yelmites hearts, no air to ease orlanthi's breaths, no darkness to confort trolls, no flower ground (maybe even no ground just dust and stone) to enjoy ernaldans feet

7 hours ago, Cassius said:

For Ernalda's initiates and associates, the corpse is laid to rest in a deep burial chamber beneath Ernalda's temple. I imagine that Ernalda's temples always (or almost always) have basements.

the question is that so many bodies (40-50% of the population!)  would request too much room to be welcomed in/under the temple. Maybe rune levels in/under the temple and other in a kind of graveyard (in the temple field of course,  but not under the "building)

just a question, no definitive truth in my words

1 hour ago, radmonger said:

To expand on my answer, because cultural skills represent not militia training, but mostly skills learnt in childhood. Playing games, listening to stories, and the local equivalent of Sunday school.

I fully agree with it

however

1 hour ago, radmonger said:

And neither Sartar nor Esrolia treat children in a strongly gendered way; gender is gained upon initiation.

but here, there is something I see as an issue (from a logical perspective)

Note, I may be wrong and may not understand what the background says but

- (1) in all publications I saw I have noted that the vast majority of women (gender) have woman body and the vast majority of men (gender) have man body. Of course we may find exception

- (2) It is said that a lot of women are initiate of Ernalda and a lot of men are initiate of Orlanth

what I understand or imagine (and what is the issue with cultural weapon skill in the creation process) is that children in the vast majority of case are already "gendered" because there is a correlation between body and gender (1).

So for me, as they show already some tendency we may see a correlation between their "future gender initiation" (2 who is initiate of who) and the games they play, the stories they like, etc.. This boy will probably like to play the warrior - hero or help his father to cut trees when this girl will play the doctor (as future Ernalda healer) and help her mother to cook (as future Ernalda mother / house leader).

As Sartar / Esrolia / Orlanthi society are "open" (Is it the right word ? in french yes but in english), noone will try to force a boy (body) to play the "warrior" and not the "doctor" or to forbid a girl (body) to not help Dady to cut trees and defy the boys in some fights.

But "probably" doesn't mean "must". A boy (gender) may dislike to fight, or a girl (gender) may like to fight.

So is gender the true (or the only) determining factor ? IMHO no. Everything is possible, and in those "open" communities where a lot of genders and cults are accepted, a lot of things are possible (no, chaos is not an option, really...)

For me, I would prefer to have a list of cultural weapons, sure. But not a percentage to apply automatically. More a step of "restrictive personal skills" where players can pick up 3 skills (5?) among a set of "childhood" skills (cultural weapon skills, daily household/community skills) and distribute 60% (80% ?) with a maximum per skill. The next step ("open" personal skills of the rules allowing to add % to the same skills that this restrictive steps)

It would let a wider range of options

An Ernaldan initiate may have weapon skills as in the rules, but the difference will be because the player wants and builds the character to like fight (or for any reason had to learn weapons when she was child) when another player would prefer to have a [really unskilled on war business] woman to play, choice not possible with the rules

In the same way an Orlanthi initiate may not have any weapon skills, or a lower % than what the rules say, because the player wants the character to be a light dreamer, , singing to the clouds, dancing under the rain, but who try to avoid contact with most violent childs. Or maybe not a poet, but more an intellectual (nerd ?) who dislike or flee confrontation and "virile" challenge (yes I m talking about myself when I was young 🙂 )

Again that does'nt mean that a poet or an intellectual dislike to fight, just that is possible to find poet or intellectual who "succeed" to avoid any martial activity during their childhood

2 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

That looks similar to commissars in early Soviet armies.

yep in the idea, I think the same source. I have the idea from some SF movies like the (not very good in my opinion) netflix rebel moon with the masked people (don't know their role exactly) but that SF were based on soviet and before religious inquisitors I think

however their scope could be limited to very few thinkgs. But even with a few scope, you may find people who want to be more involved in leaders business, even if they don't have skills for that

9 hours ago, Ynneadwraith said:

The need for this is probably best demonstrated by a quick (simplified) scenario.

Rhigosian Army A is marching to intercept a Praxian raiding force. As Esrolia is a cosmopolitan place, the army is comprised of a majority of Orlanthi militiamen (say 60%), but with a substantial proportion of Yelmite militia (20%) and Argan Argar milita (15%). The remaining 5% is made up of minor subcults. Now, the main thing that bonds these militiamen to one another is their relationship, and subservience to, Ernalda. Otherwise their gods are largely adversarial, and each individual person will be most loyal to the people they're marching right next to (their fellow cultists), because that's how these armies are structured.

Cue a contentious disagreement (of which there would be many en route). Could be a decision around tactics. Could be how to settle a dispute between two cultists. Could be an argument over which cult was chosen to be the Champion. Could be anything where tensions get fraught, and we're on the warpath so tensions are fraught a lot.

Without the presence of a strong unifying force, it would be very, very easy for this mixed army to lose cohesion. To lose the will and determination to fight and die alongside one another. Shedding portions of your fighting force to internal disagreements en route is a very poor way to win a battle.

So, it would be imperative to have an Ernaldan figurehead at the top very visibly tying the whole lot together. The leaders of the husband-protectors should be seen being subservient to the Ernaldan, to remind everyone that they have important oaths to serve Ernalda and not screw over all the other people who rub them up the wrong way. When there are disputes that fracture between cults, you need a strong mediator present to sort it out.

I agree will all of that

however there is something you almost said but did not 🙂 so I don't know if I disagree on this specific point or not (you used the magic word seen 😛 )

You don't need to have an Ernaldan to lead the army. You need a good war leader. Could be Yelmalio, Argan Argar, Orlanth, Bab's, or any other god's rune lord (or equivalent) ... Doesn't matter. Probably if there are too animosity between two cults, the choice would be between build an army without one of this cult, or choose a more "consensual" war leader (Orlanth or Bab's ? Bab's as consensual, a paradox ?)

But you need some official "counter power" (or the real power) : some judges. These judges are in my opinion Ernaldan priestesses having the delegation of Grand Mothers authority. They are not here to say where to attack, who will lead the charge, or anything like that. But they are here to ensure that rules are followed. That Earth is respected, that the men will achieve the objectives without being disturbed by any passion (they are so dumb with alcohol, gold promises, or pretty natives) And of course they are the ultimate resort in case of conflicts you detailed, if the war leader is "not able" to manage it properly

One option I imagine 4-6 women following the war leader like his(or her) shadow. Could be a nice association where they help him(or her) or could be impediment where the war leader feels their stern looks, disdainful wispers etc... like inquisitors

Another one is based on the fact that an army is made not only of warriors but supports (heal, logistic, ...). And Ernaldan are very good to manage support. So maybe, less ceremonial, less impressive, the leaders of the support team is the counter power.

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

Two legs becomes problematic, but humans can often solve this, I had a friend with a dog that had lost the ability to use it's back legs, and so had wheels.

that's true

however, in a bronze age economy would people do the same effort (or in any not "rich like us" economy) ? In the other hand, gloranthan can solve this with magic I think

I follow the same way than @g33k for "rune magic"

you don't know how to create the effect of the rune spell, you know how to ask your god to create the effect of the runespell

but that does'nt mean you doesn't have to learn something. You have to learn how to request properly your god (aka you have to learn a prayer)

for me the difference between common spell and special runespells is that

- you need the common prayer, the first secret all initiates learn during their initiation to "open the gate". Of course this "common" prayer needs a specification : which effect (extension ? heal ? etc...) you need

- you need a special prayer (specific gesture, specific words) to ask your god a special (powerful, and specific to the god) rune spell effect
 

however

- that doesn't mean a mortal cannot learn how to create the effect of the rune spell. But in that case they don't learn how to ask a god, they learn how to use their own power. Aka they are now hero, and these rune spells are not really rune spells, they are heroic spells, creating the same effect (lower or not) than their divine equivalent.

- that doesn't mean the common "prayer" is common among all the gods, it is common among all the initiates of the god ( or god's cult). I don't consider a yelm initiate will  succeed to request Yelm to heal his friend using Orlanth's common prayer. No he has to use Yelm's gesture, Yelm's words. These gesture and words are adapted to focus on the runes and title of the god the initiate prey.

reading all the comments, I wonder if there were more Dara Happan material (chaosium & JC scenarios, setting books, prirority in the cult books, etc..) the opinions we have would be the same.

and there is something ... I m not sure of the right words (linguee gave me a lot but I m not confortable to choose so..)  to not offense anyone I will just ask questions :

Does today France suck more than French colonial empire 2 centuries ago because the territory is smaller ?

Do the vast majority of men suck because there "Lodril's gear" are ridiculous compared to mine ? (second degree, I m in the stats)

Should a country, a community, an empire be the bigger, with the bigger cities to be the best ?
It is clear, even today, that some leaders believe it, able to use war to prove how the best they are,.

Or are there other "variables" ? Is it even possible to define a real hierarchy ?

4 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Can you please cite sources / links for some of these?  Maybe it's my google-fu - a Google search of "Orlanth Yinkin Eye" got nothing relevant. 

now I m not sure about the eye... I was talking about the myth of Orlanth child playing with his half brother Yinkin

https://glorantha.fandom.com/wiki/Yinkin

Quote

In Whistling Caves, young Orlanth buffeted Yinkin his winds and blows out of cliffs, then Orlanth rushed to save him.

so for me, apologies

the story with Humakt is how they argue about death, and, at the end, Orlanth accepted he was wrong and a new relationship was agreed (so for me, apologies)

4 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

I'd also argue that Well of Daliath shouldn't be the primary source for this stuff.  I, and many others, just paid a lot of money for new books. 

yes I agree with you  (in the same way that I like  reference in rqg books more than references in something written 1 century ago 😛 - cause sometimes it is still true, sometimes not, how to know ?

however " my " well of Daliath was not the internet resource. It was the myth with Orlanth, purging his faults (that's how I interpret it) by acquiring wisdom in the bath of Nelat.

a significant part of Orlanth follows this cycle: Orlanth does something bad, by choice, error or accident, and try (and often succeed) to fix it, without hiding / denying his responsabilities.

We don't know (and is it important ? imo no) if he said "excuse me" / "apologies" or anything like that but his acts demonstrate it in my opinion.

22 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

I don't see where he ever admits he did something wrong.  To whom did Orlanth apologize, and what did he say?  There should be some "Bad Poetry" used for a formal Orlanth apology ritual.

Yinkin, for an eye, Humakt for a family member, Yelm for a life, and some other I don't know. After all the well of Daliath was a little bit hard with him

14 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

I doubt that's what FDW meant, it's more that this is when Prax is still under Lunar rule.

yes, with the option depending personal reliationship, reaction could be very strong, or just the minimum

14 hours ago, g33k said:

I honestly wouldn't screw too much with the ransom.  It's a feature of the setting, so it should largely work as-described.

in fact it depends if you (the table, the gm) want to play something or consider it just as a sub-event. In the same way, some tables will act the bargain for any bargain, when other will just say "ok, we are in the town, let's see the core book to know how much money we make with our plunder".

Everything (even a weapon broken) can be seen as an opportunity to play (or not to play). I like the idea of playing this issue because that's more social, impacting the future, confronting passions (honor, hate, ...) and rational (what will be the impact)

but, for example, i dislike to describe every time too much the opponents with a lot of details (hairs, colors, size...) and I will not spend a lot of time to sell the plunder every scenario's end. When other may want to describe each person pc meet or "bargain" between player en gm each sell.

14 hours ago, g33k said:

Think of it this way:  if the Lunars begin routinely screwing people over ransom, then everyone will just start routinely killing Lunar prisoners and/or not accepting surrender.

but is there any "routine" ? I mean that's not like every week twenty lunar patrols are attacked -and defeated- in Prax. If yes that means lunars have some prisoners and hostages (lives) to exchange too... and with their magic... and "monsters", it would be easy to "calm down" a region (Have you yet seen Cwim ? no ? oh what about an opportunity to meet the bat's priests ! a "recruitment drive" could be organized next season if you wish )

4 hours ago, ChrisWentWhere said:

This is still in the Sor Eel period

that's the most important

now your pcs are criminals (from a lunar perspective)

that means if they go to Pavis or in any area controled by lunat, if they are recognized (aka reputation roll) they will have big issue with any lunar patrol. I would even consider that, once the officer is freed, the authority will launch a hunt against them to avenge the insult (and maybe the deads). Same way if they learn what happens, even without the officer

4 hours ago, ChrisWentWhere said:

I wonder if they wait at Tourney Altar and the Issaries Merchant acts as an emissary…

seems to me good, anywhere there are no lunar troop is a good place to "bargain". And sending a issaries, or any herault well known to not be a criminal (so not a pc) is in my opinion the only option. Except if your pcs lead a big army... But if that 's just a group of 4-10-20 it is nothing compared to the lunar army.

now some outcome you may like :

- the officer is not liked by the authority (find a reason) who will not pay. Does the prisoner know that ? Does he tell them there is no hope ?

- the authority will send some scouts to follow the emissary and organize an ambush when they identify the pcs (if they can)

- all the pc, the humakti included, should know that if the officer is released he will be able to describe the pc so now they should migrate or hide themselves for a long time

- the officer is very appreciated by the authority (find a reason). Does the prisoner know that ? Does he tell them his price is higher than expected ? Does he threat them that dady family will pay not only a ransom but some "pc hunters". Does he tell them that mum is the high priestess of any darkness sect of sorcerer-murderers ?

- the officier is recognized by some praxians as the responsible of the death and slavery of their wives / children. As a prisoner he is under the pc's responsability. The praxian clan (or tribe ?) expect the pc to surrender him to them. The honor should be to refuse... But facing a khan, two stormkhans, three shamans and 20 warriors a little bit... angry, is a  (fair) challenge

There are in my opinion / in my game two reasons to accept a rune / a passion to augment a skill roll

1) because it is RAW. Ok you can use water rune to climb

2) because player « proves » that’s fine. Ok you can use air rune to climb this sacred mountain of Orlanth (you may even use devotion Orlanth but I will not tell you that, that’s your character not mine)

Now.. don’t try to invoke air if you try to Climb some merfolk palace wall in any abyss or to climb the cave that has just collapsed, letting you just enough air to breathe with difficulty

A question of perspective 🙂

3 hours ago, Ageha said:

Orlanth and the Orlanthi are designated 'good guys' for the setting

Are they ? Are people good when they are able to kill another clan just because their ancestors did, even if they don’t know the root cause or because the first event was an insult 200 years ago ?

are people good when they are able to « clean » a full ethnic people (telmori) who served their kings (Sartar and co)

are people good when they accepted to hunt the ducks and then bargain some advantages from lunars ?

- of course they are people and individuals - but from some perspective no Orlanthi are not so good. There are good Orlanthi, there are « neutral » Orlanthi and there are bad Orlanthi. Same for Pelorian and even among the lunar worshippers there are good guys

3 hours ago, Ageha said:

everything Yelm-related (and by extension the Peloria region and Dara Happan empire) seem to just suck

Does it ?

does Alexander the Great’s empire suck ? How many years did survive his empire ?

did Roman Empire suck ? But there is no more Roman Empire  ? Did Ancient Greek cities suck ? They were dominated by Rome after all ? 
 

now in Glorantha; it is true that pelorian lost against Arkat but where is Arkat empire today ? (Before the end of glorantha I mean)

it is true that pelorian lost against EWF but where is EWF today ?

It is true that pelorian lost against carmanian but … where is Carmania today ?

See Peloria like the sun. The day you see the sun , you see the light. The night you don’t see the sun, you don’t see it’s light. But the day after you will see the sun.. the same sun (or about)

now see the Orlanthi as the wind. Today you hear its noise, you feel its strength. Sometimes it is a hurricane sometimes it is a breeze. But the day after you don’t know if you will see the same hurricane. But what you are sure is that next year it will not be the same hurricane (if there is another hurricane.)

Orlanth is the king, probably the most powerful entity when Yelm is the emperor, even after his defeat against Orlanth

both must exist (before the end of glorantha I mean)

why some people worship the sun and not the air ? Because some want to live in peace even if the price is less freedom. They don’t want to fight for a clan chief against another clan chief every year.

why some people worship the air and not the sun ? Because they praise freedom even if the price is more risks, more conflict.

everything is a question of perspective. There is not a conflict between the blue good and the red bad, there is a conflict between the not evil but sometimes bad blue and the rest of the world : other not evil but sometimes bad blues, sometimes <not evil but sometimes bad> red, today <a part of evil but just a part> red.

9 hours ago, radmonger said:

For an opposed roll, I would interpret a failure versus fumble to mean the goal is accomplished, even though you failed at the task. For example, you collapsed on the road 5 miles from Athens, but the runners the Persians sent themselves got captured and revealed their plan. 

That’s karma ! For me not this case but our rules may vary 😀

but i would follow the « fumble » rule when someone try to unlock a door (the locksmith did a fumbled so it helps the thief)

 I would apply the fumble when the fumbled action create a direct opportunity / help / bonus to the opposite action (as a defense fumble offer opportunity for a better attack)

that s just choice and taste

un all cases interesting job

59 minutes ago, radmonger said:

There is a 5% chance of the opposition fumbling, as they only have 10% skill too. In the table on p199, a failed attack versus fumbled parry results in normal damage being dealt, as well as a roll on the fumble table. 

oh I did not follow this point

ok I understand the difference. However there would be two ways

the one where you can win even if you fail (your option then) and the one where you must succeed to win.

For example if you are greek in Marathon and must run to Athens, and some persian pursuers try to prevent you, even if they fumble you must succeed to reach the city. If not, noone would know how was the battle.

hello @radmonger thanks for the sharing :)

however ,as i was surprised by some results (for example the irregularity seems to me not "enough" 0.6385 for example from 130 vs 80, 140 vs90, etc..)

i tried some tests and have not the same results

the most obvious (I did not see it before all my tests ^^ ) is your 10 vs 10 result :

if Att has only 10% chance of success its roll, it is not possible to be the winner with 13.42% (> 10) once you compare with a potential success of the defense.

see what i did (i may have made mistake, by the way, I'm not sure at all)

row Att :  the skill (1.3 = 130%) then the crit chance = 5% of this and round. As special = 20% of skill but the first 5% are critical, it means 15% of "pure" special, then the "rest" of success chance. So for 130%, you have 7% crit, 20% special,  68% of normal success (68+20+7 = 95, 96+= failure)

row Def: same than row  Att.

row s: it is the % of "win" for the column. for example, with our 130 vs 70 : if Att crit, Att doesn't win only if Def obtains a crit (70 -> 4%) =>96%. If Att obtain a special, it doesn't win only if Def obtains crit (4%) or special  (11%) => 85%

row S : it is the final probability to win when Att obtains a result. For example, with 130, Att has 7% to obtain a critical roll, then against Def, 7% x 96% = 6.72% to win

last cell gives the full chances of win = chance of win with a crit (6.72%) + chance of win with a special (17%) and chance of win with a normal success (20.4%)

so 44,12%

10 vs 10 = 9,23% chance of "win" (seems better than 13,42%)

I share my excel if you find any issue

rq opposition.xlsx

imo

there are three dimensions :

1) type of damages :

magical -and potentialy what kind of magic the target may be insensible for one of them - don't use darkness against Subere for example, it is not efficient....-, fire, sharp, blunt

the question, for me, is not "does this action or the intent be covered by a spell or not ?" but more "does these dammages inflict wounds or not ?"

so is it with a cestus, a tree, a hand, a foot has no importance for me : a stone thrown by an ennemy  should be treated (and is by me) with the same rule than a stone fallen from the top of a mountain (if the results are the same d6s of course)

2) against what a protection protects:

• does protection spell protect against 'natural" fire Y/N
• does metalic armor protect against magical fire Y/N
• does metalic armor protect against blunt damages, Y/N
• etc...

and 3) is the protection against the damages or against something else ?

this point is key in my understanding of "critical" attack effect :

- dodge is against the attack: you aren't hit or you are hit (full results of your dices, depending on the level of the attack-damage)

- parry is against the damages: whatever is "visible" (do you block, do you deflect, do you "doge", etc...) parry absorb a part of the damages. The part could be all of them, if the damages are weak.

- protection (spirit magic)  is against the damages: protection 1 reduces from 1 hp the damages, protection 2 from 2 hp the damages, etc...

- shield (divine magic) is against the damages: shield 1 reduces from 2 hp the damages, shield 2 from 4 hp the damages, etc..

- Dampen Damage is against the attack:  if the intensity is enough, it reduces, if not, there is nothing. No matter if you use intensity 20 or intensity 3 from a kopi (2 is required), the result is the same

so if your attack is a critical success, it ignores any protection (against the damages)  but not the rest :  critical dodge effect "protects you" from a critical attack (not the damages), dampen damage still "protects" you because the effect is against the weapon, not against the attack damages

as i don't follow the rqg proposed background I would just apply the same than humans, aka question with why, and answers create the background (and some bonus like rqg background) :

so we know this elf is on a mission. that's fine => Why the leaders decided to choose this elf and not another one ?

because the elf was volunteer ? => gain loyalty leader/dryad/ .. +10

because the elf family did what they can to obtain this "honor" ? => if the elf is happy with this decision gain love family +10, if not, gain honor +10

because the elf is known as weirdos ? => gain +5 or 10% in any exotic skill (from an elf perspective)

because some omen told the elders that the elf has a big destiny ? => gain loyalty forest +10

about the elf family  background

is  one (or more) parent identified as a hero ? why ? What did they did ?

- sacrifice their live fighting against another race ? hate  (or fear it depends what was the death cause) this race +10, battle +5%, honor +5

- sacrifice their life fighting a fire ? fear fire +10, honor +10, reputation +5

- survived some heroic battle ? hate this race +10, battle +5%, reputation +5, honor +10

about the elf previous life ?

there is probably one skill very important for the player (not the character, but the player) => define with the player why this skill was learned and how was the learning,for example

- maybe the skill is > 70, why ? did some teacher/master very inspiring ? add loyalty teacher +10, was the teacher very bad, violent, ... ? add hate teacher or fear teacher +10

- maybe the skill is < 40, why ? did some teacher bery inefficient ? add hate teacher +10. because it is not an elf skill ? so who was the teacher ? add loylty teacher +10

 does the elf know some foreign languages ? why ?

- because some foreign friends teached them ? (the @David Scott colymar example - why did you choose the official login sir ? ! 😛 -) add loyalty "clan/tribe/some people" +10  ?

- because they were prisonner and they learned the language of their jailers ? add hate or fear X +10 (as a gm ask how was this 'holydays', and decide then) then ask how the pc became free (someone else saved them ? loyalty +10 person or clan or ... / the pc alone ? how ? add+5/+10% for one of the skill used to flee

etc ...

you can choose any significant skill or characterstic and ask why . Tell me why your character  has str/dex/... 16+  ? what did happen ? How did the pc use this strength... etc there is a moment where the player's answer will give you a passion, maybe a bonus in another skill, and sometimes, a hook, a nemesis, or anything good for your campaign

Maybe it is not the opposite but the absence of luck

in that case I would say

luck + action or luck + power or luck + decision 

because you can’t meet your fate if you don’t move. Even moving against your fate drive you to your fate. But if you stay, without any action, any decision it is hard to accomplish anything 

thanks for this topic @Duff, very interesting proposals from you and others 🙂

@Darius West's question makes me think another one

I consider that the process to become an adult (at least in orlanthi cultures) is based two too initiations: first the adulthood (aka you are not anymore a child) then one year later, the cult initiation (aka you are now a full member of the community with the same rights and duties than any adult, as religious activity is everywhere)

but what about a second, later initiation ? Is it the same quest or another one ?

for example to become Orlanth's initiate, it seems to me normal (but other ways could happen) that a [not anymore child but not yet adult] follows the Orlanth's initiation (meeting the second son, exploring or not deeper the path)

but what about a 30 years old lankhoring answering the call of the storm ? Could it be the same path ? or some story about the acceptance of a stranger in Orlanth's hall ? In the case of LM, it could be how LM and Orlanth met (in the pit ?) the character starting as LM being captured and finishing as Orlanth escaping ?

or is there no relationship between the mundane situation (who/from where is the applicant) and the godtime story  ?

22 minutes ago, Darius West said:

Can the Allied Spirit and the Fetch interact with each other.  Given their spiritual proximity to the same Waha Shaman Khan, do they have to interact via the S/K or can they do so independently?  The issue of POW and Spell sharing comes to mind.

For me fetch is shaman

in my understanding, the answer is the same that « can the allied spirit interact with left hand or only right hand » 

but I agree nowhere it is written that allied spirit can communicate with the full soul * or only with the usual soul (those who are not shaman) or only with one of the five/six/seven part of the soul.

so I keep it simply. Fetch is not an indépendant spirit. (Well except when pyscho/chaotic participates of course, that could be played) fetch is the shaman. If the shaman is khan then fetch is the khan. Allied spirit talk to the khan so talk to both the fetch and the non fetch part of the khan

* I have never followed any theological lesson so if soul is not the right word, put a better one. My only conclusion is shaman and fetch are one , fully one