Merak Gren Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 BTW, Miles has given me the official OK to actually put my conversion online, and include his artwork if I so desire. Wow, I could almost make it look professional Just waiting on Andrew's permission ... Ian That's great news. Quote Likes to sneak around 115/420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClawCarver Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 BTW, Miles has given me the official OK to actually put my conversion online, and include his artwork if I so desire. Wow, I could almost make it look professional Just waiting on Andrew's permission ... Ian Talk about making a guy (and his pet conversion) feel inferior! I shall just have to do my own illustrations... :ohwell: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
begagsel Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Hi Ian/vagabond and all other tauthers, dreens and keshts! I read this thread some weeks ago, because I started to work on a conversion of SOJ to a D100 system too. I live in Germany and SOJ isn't known here, also there might be some collectors and freaks like me who know this game but maybe never played it. I own the 3rd Edition and like many people I too feel that due the errors, cuted off sections, a not so smooth combat system etc the rules should be modernized in some way. In search for players for adventures on this magnificient world of Jorune I decided to write down the converted/modernized rules in German. I don't own Chaosiums BRP, I am orientated more towards Moongoose RuneQuest for the Open Game License Content and Call of Cthulhu because it is well known in Germany. Also all my notes and conversions are in German, maybe we can exchange our solutions, ideas and efforts for mutual benefit on this forum. The activity seems nowadays quite at zero. Does this mean you stopped working on your conversion? Actually what have you finished? I would be happy if this forum returns to that sophisticated level of discussion and exchange of ideas which I formerly read with great pleasure. - begagsel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vagabond Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 Hi begagsel, Also all my notes and conversions are in German, maybe we can exchange our solutions, ideas and efforts for mutual benefit on this forum. As with everyone else who has been tinkering with BRP and other system conversions, any solutions, ideas and efforts are welcome to this discussion. The activity seems nowadays quite at zero. Does this mean you stopped working on your conversion? Actually what have you finished? Not finished by a long shot. I am still waiting for Andrew to OK posting of the conversion, but also, my efforts have stalled a bit as a result of real life getting in the way. I hope to be able to get back into it this week. I also have been having a brief conversation with Miles, indirectly Jorune related, and I need to take care of something for him in that regard. I would be happy if this forum returns to that sophisticated level of discussion and exchange of ideas which I formerly read with great pleasure. Anyone can drop ideas in, and I will happily respond. Also, as I said, I hope to get back into it this week and start posting some more chargen thoughts. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vagabond Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share Posted July 27, 2009 Yeah - I got a Jury Duty summons. Translation - should be about 6 hours of solid BRP Jorune work ... Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merak Gren Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Never thought of it like that, but it seems like a much better use of time. Quote Likes to sneak around 115/420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vagabond Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share Posted July 27, 2009 It helps that my employer actually encourages those summoned to actually fulfill their obligation by providing full compensation. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samwise7 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Any updates on this? Quote "Everything important in RPGs happens the moment you stop holding onto the rulebook with both hands." -Jeff Rients http://samwise7.yolasite.com (Art, Blog, RPG Settings, YouTube, Etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samwise7 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I'd love to see how you treat the races. Quote "Everything important in RPGs happens the moment you stop holding onto the rulebook with both hands." -Jeff Rients http://samwise7.yolasite.com (Art, Blog, RPG Settings, YouTube, Etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vagabond Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 No updates yet - real life has been extremely busy. However, as mentioned, I have Jury Duty coming up, and as long as I am sitting in the calling room without any activity, I should have a good 4 hours or so of nonstop work on Jorune. A limited number of available PC races will be handled first, basically Humans, Boccord, Muadra, Woffen, Bronth and Crugar. Isho and Dyshas will most likely not be complete. But, I will pull basically from the original game as far as the use of skills and outline some abilities to help differentiate the races, as well as the standard stat mods. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vagabond Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 Well, Jury Duty came and went, and things moved forward a bit. Still not ready for "publishing" yet, but once I tweak some wording and decide how much text to provide vs. "You need the Jorune rules", I'll get the initial document up. The initial contents will include generating characters, with an emphasis on the initial playable races (human, boccord, muadra, bronth, woffen, crugar and tologora). There will be info for most of the rest as well, but I will the real meat for them in follow up chapters. I will get skills and professions in, as well as combat (including most of the weapons and armor). Unfortunately, while my Isho/Color/Dysha stuff is progressing, it is still not ready for prime time. I will have the characteristics, as well as Isho and Color Points, and perhaps some core stuff (i.e. Crugar and Woffen rules with regards to natural dysha use may be in rough but usable form). And, all docs will be living until I feel they can be frozen. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merak Gren Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Glad to hear progress is moving along. Looking forward to the first draft. Quote Likes to sneak around 115/420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vagabond Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 OK, just wanted to drop in a thought: So, the SIZ characteristic, for some/many, has been issue. What does it represent? Mass? Height/Length? Some arbitrary combination? I decided to circumvent that problem altogether by doing something a little different. I am using SIZ (or, perhaps I will rename it to MASS) as a frame size/mass density modifier. Since Jorune provides a lot of the height and weight numbers for the races, I basically derived a formula as follows: Weight (kg) = Height (m) * sqrt (STR) * (3*SIZ) My thoughts are that one should be able to derive and approximate weight by looking at STR and Height, and modifying that result with some factor to represent the race's overall mass/density/frame size. The numbers worked out quite well in most cases, with some exceptions (and a few exceptions can be easily explained - Cleash, for example, are specifically weaker than humans, but their bulk is accounted for by their heavy carapace shells). The values ranged from ~3 (Muadra frex) to ~9 (Bronth) - I truncated or rounded, and sometimes fudged a little due to listed weights being odd or discrepancies in data in various texts/editions. And, the numbers made sense - Bronth are by far the most massive/dense (up to 1000 lbs with an 8 ft frame), Boccord and Corastin have the same SIZ modifier since there frames are comparable (though, since Corastin are so much taller, I increased their SIZ to reflect that fact), and Croid are denser than Corastin (shorter, but stronger). I have also figured out how to use this SIZ factor to determine damage bonuses (the formula actually fits the standard STR+SIZ table pretty well) as well as HP (though I may use a STR+CON avg modified by a SIZ factor). I was also able to use the numbers to figure out some decent STR ranges for the extreme races - Croid, Corastin, and Bronth. However, while I have logically (at least in my mind) come up with a suitable and useful (in some ways) SIZ concept, some of the old uses for SIZ are no longer valid (for example, armor fitting certain SIZ or a range of SIZ - but I was never really happy with that rule anyway). Anyway, I just wanted to enlighten you all with my SIZ philosophy in an effort to hopefully generate some discussion/debate. I can put up a file with basic stat blocks for all major races in a few days so you can see how things work out. This won't be a complete character chapter since it will not have professions, skills, and racial modifiers/abilities, but it should allow people to start rolling up characters and using the standard Jorune profession/templates to get some idea of how things will work out. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merak Gren Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 My understanding of SIZ is that it represents Mass. This is corroborated by Ringworld, were SIZ is renamed as MAS. Other sources in SB adventures and supplements include creatures and demons were SIZ is quite high due to density, but apparent SIZ is lower. I have to say I do like SIZ as a stat. It is completely arbitrary, incomprehensible anf ambigous, but I really do like it. I'm looking forward to seeing the stat blocks. Quote Likes to sneak around 115/420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al. Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Wiser heads than mine have pointed out that most of the BRP characteristics are either rather woolly and ambiguous or cover at least two related but different (and possibly contrary)* things. par example Dex = gross motor co-ordination (Agility) AND fine motor co-ordination (Manipulation) Pow = strength of one's link to the gods (AND by semi-concious inference) willpower AND luck Str = explosive strength AND static strength Con = stamina AND general health Int = memory AND capacity for abstract thought AND acuity of senses App= physical beauty AND physical ugliness AND capacity to impose one's point of view on others AND charm and likeableness Edu = formal education AND life experience So Siz being defined originally as mass end of discussion and it then being used as a basis for height, armspan, indside leg measurement, shoe size and hat size seems to me if anything cleaner and less ambiguous than other 'inherent' scores. I have considered and never got round to making each of the stats in fact a pair. Generate the base score then swap upto 3 points within the pair. i.e. Dex becomes Agl/Man I roll a 13 and being a powergaming munchkin swap 3 points to make it Agl/Man 16/10 In the white heat of character generation and running games I've never quite made it to actually going to this much effort. The difference with your suggestion of having a calculation for deriving mass from STR, SIZ and (racial constant) is that you are providing some kind of real world number upon wwhich to hang some suspension of dissbelief. So good luck to you! Al * for one, marathon runners develop great stamina and thus one would expect high CON but (empirically at least) have weaker immune systems and less reserves and so are prone to colds and infections and thus low CON. Quote Rule Zero: Don't be on fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vagabond Posted September 1, 2009 Author Share Posted September 1, 2009 Dex = gross motor co-ordination (Agility) AND fine motor co-ordination (Manipulation) I agree with this. Pow = strength of one's link to the gods (AND by semi-concious inference) willpower AND luck But not this - only in games where gods matter does this hold. Str = explosive strength AND static strength Also, I don't agree - I find that explosive strength would be related to static strength, so in my mind, it's one in the same. Con = stamina AND general health Agree here. Int = memory AND capacity for abstract thought AND acuity of senses But not here - there are specific skills to represent the senses, and INT may affect them, it is not by means of representing acuity of the senses, but rather interpreting the information the senses collect. App= physical beauty AND physical ugliness AND capacity to impose one's point of view on others AND charm and likeableness Disagree here as well. Beauty/ugliness is the same thing, but APP does not represent charm, likeableness, nor imposing ones POV on others. It might affect it, but it is not the same. This is the old CHA vs. APP as a stat argument. While the CHA roll derived from APP might point towards some sort of direct relationship, again, there are a number of social skills that isolate it. Edu = formal education AND life experience Agree here, but EDU is not always used So Siz being defined originally as mass end of discussion and it then being used as a basis for height, armspan, indside leg measurement, shoe size and hat size seems to me if anything cleaner and less ambiguous than other 'inherent' scores. The difference with your suggestion of having a calculation for deriving mass from STR, SIZ and (racial constant) is that you are providing some kind of real world number upon wwhich to hang some suspension of dissbelief. So good luck to you! Al One of my main problems with SIZ as a stat is that it ambiguity leads to consistency problems. Also, there is some redundancy with STR. Higher STR implies more muscle mass implies more mass implies more SIZ anyway. My methodology extracts STR from the picture, removing that redundancy. If SIZ were a pure representation of mass, that would be one thing, but, as you say, it represents so many other things. And, as a result, I think it muddies the water so much more. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vagabond Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 OK all, here are some thoughts on Isho, Color and dyshas. As mentioned before, one rolls 3d6 (modified for race - either more dice, different dice, or flat ads, I haven't really decided yet) for Isho and Color. Isho determines Isho Points, modified for race. Color yields points to spend on the various Moon and Isho related skills (potentially things like Interference, Unweaving, and the various dynamic and static Isho skills). Again, these points, and to some degree what they can be spent on as well as how they are spent, are determined by race. Dysha using players/races can specialize in one or more Moons, giving the some advantage in their use, but this yields disadvantages when using other Moons/Colors. To learn a dysha, a player rolls against the primary Moon Skill (Color) for that dysha. There are modifiers based upon the number of additional Colors involved in the weave, as well any Moon Skill specialization and inherent dysha difficulty. Also, using Shanthas, Hishtins, and Muadra as teachers, will yield modifiers as well. Optionally, instead of a difficulty modifier based upon each Color in the dysha, I may require individual rolls for each Color. While closer to the original Jorune mechanics, this does add some additional complexity. Once known, list the dysha on the character sheet. I am still tinkering with either individual skills for the weaving of each dysha, or basing the weaving roll on the appropriate Moon skill(s) with modifiers. If I go with individual skills, then the learning process will set beginning level based upon the primary Moon skill, modified perhaps by level of success. Another option would be a generic weaving skill, which is modified by Moon skill level and other factors. Anyway, just wanted to put this out there for some comments. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merak Gren Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Learning dyshas: how about one roll under all the other TN's? Ie roll under your lowest skill. Its back to RQ sorcery but I always envisioned dysha weaving as sorcery done right. With regard to weaving, I'd favour basing it on Moon skills rather than a separate skill for each. Its the bad thing in RQ sorcery again where improvement is painfully slow for each spell. I'd favour a small set of skills that can be mastered and allow for different effects dependong on how you mix them. I imagine that when a maudra gets good with certain Moon skills picking up a completely new dysha will not be a problem. Quote Likes to sneak around 115/420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vagabond Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 Learning dyshas: how about one roll under all the other TN's? Ie roll under your lowest skill. I go back and forth a little here. It penalizes a high Moon skill, while the reverse, basing it upon the highest skill, ignores the lower skill levels. I think I'll defer to the highest skill, but set some difficulty mod based upon the other lower skills. Its back to RQ sorcery but I always envisioned dysha weaving as sorcery done right. With regard to weaving, I'd favour basing it on Moon skills rather than a separate skill for each. Its the bad thing in RQ sorcery again where improvement is painfully slow for each spell. I'd favour a small set of skills that can be mastered and allow for different effects dependong on how you mix them. Agree on both counts. Hence I am leaning towards the Moon skills. I just need to determine the best approach. The plus for going with individual dysha skills, it is much easier to work with. But, then you have 7 Moon skills, an unlimited number of dysha skills as new ones are created, and all of the Isho skills ... That's a lot of skills. I imagine that when a maudra gets good with certain Moon skills picking up a completely new dysha will not be a problem. Yes and no. Picking up a new one is easier, when there are resources to assist such as Shantha, Hishtins, etc. But, for creation of entirely new dysha (or there is no Shantha or Hishtin or other Muadra), it might be a little tough ... But, good thoughts. Keep 'em coming. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickMiddleton Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Predictably (given what I did in my port of Isho and Dysha's to BRP), I prefer the separate skill for each Dysha. I liked the Jorune 3e system that emphasised the martial-arts like feel of Dyshas - and I think a separate skill re-infroces that. For me, muadra Dyshas' are orders of magnitude more crude than anything the shanthas do with isho... Which is why for them it's always a big deal. Cheers, Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vagabond Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 Hey Mick, Predictably (given what I did in my port of Isho and Dysha's to BRP), I prefer the separate skill for each Dysha. I liked the Jorune 3e system that emphasised the martial-arts like feel of Dyshas - and I think a separate skill re-infroces that. For me, muadra Dyshas' are orders of magnitude more crude than anything the shanthas do with isho... Which is why for them it's always a big deal. Hmmm, good point, and one I think I had running around in the back of my mind, to some degree at least. For Muadra, Woffen and Crugar, dyshas do not come as naturally, but seem to be more academic, or, to go along with your martial arts likeness, at least more studious and meditative in nature. But, for the natural Joruni life - Shantha, Corondon and such, it is a natural process (though quite refined in the case of Shantha). I would lean more towards Shantha being more meditative and Muadra, Woffen and Crugar more studious. Anyway, it makes sense then to have dyshas as separate skills for Muadra, Woffen and Crugar (and others ...), and have Shantha and other Joruni natives base it directly upon the Moon skills or a simple weaving skill heavily influenced by Moon skills. I think I'll go this route for now, which will allow me to get Isho stuff out for PC races faster, and then develop the more natural/innate methodology later, and leave it as an alternative system for all Isho wielders. This leads to some other thoughts: IIRC, Thriddle taught Woffen and Crugar their dyshas, and Thriddle supposedly have studied Isho enough to be versed in some Isho skills similar to Boccord (don't forget, Thriddle worked with Lamorri, and Lamorri were able to create technologies that were able to manipulate and process Isho, so Thriddle may have been exposed to some of that - another scenario carrot ...). But, IIRC, in other sources, Muadra taught the Woffen the Power Hold dysha, I believe during the Ninnindrue Plague slayings. This actually makes for some good RPG setting stuff - what if the Thriddle taught the Crugar Lighting Blast, and Muadra taught the Woffen Power Hold during the Crugar onslaught? Why did the Thriddle teach the Crugar? Did the Thriddle have an alliance, or wished to manipulate the Crugar for their own purposes? And how do the Thriddle react to the Muadra intervention? Some more good scenario seeds and gives the setting a more interesting dynamic. Also, with the Lamorri interest and success in harnessing and manipulating Isho, which Lamorri races have access to these devices? How much about Isho do the Thriddle know about? What about Ramian? And, if Thivin are Ramian offshoots, either natural mutations or Lamorri engineered, do they have more Isho use? More to chew on ... Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vagabond Posted December 18, 2009 Author Share Posted December 18, 2009 Some more Thriddle thoughts - to give people more fodder. Bear in mind, this is my interpretation (or, rather, reinterpretation) of how things are, to fit how I envision things and how to make life on Jorune that much more interesting. So, as I mentioned before, it seems like there could have been more interesting stuff done with the Thriddle. For whatever reason, the Thriddle (Bennid Ho-Gomo) taught the Crugar the Lightning Blast dysha, and the Muadra (perhaps Caji Gends himself) taught the Woffen the Power Hold dysha in response (during the Ninindrue Plague slayings most likely). Again, why? I find it rather odd that the books say it was an honest mistake. So, let's think about things. Much of the Tauther Guide, and indeed, most of the Jorune history included as text in the game books, comes from the Thriddle. Now, we know the Thriddle were a slave race to the Lamorri (both the Thriddle and Corastin/Croid home worlds were conquered and consumed by the Lamorri, whereas the Cleash were a client race - which I will come back to later). Now, the Thriddle probably played a large part in the Lamorri's success in harnessing and tapping into Isho, as well as the Lmaorri's understanding of Jorune itself, including Shantha. Perhaps, the Thriddle covertly were able to assist the Shantha in defeating the Lamorri. This would serve multiple purposes. First, the Thriddle's oppressors would be overthrown, exacting revenge and freeing the Thriddle from slavery. Also, this would give the Thriddle an opportunity to become an important race on Jorune, considering they could act as go between for the Shantha and the Ramian and Corastin/Croid. The Cleash, however, would be mightily upset - they are now stuck on Jorune because of the Thriddle treachery (wow, and how the Cleash hate Thriddle) since the Cleash were not a slave race, but a client race. No going home for them (whereas the Corastin/Croid and Thriddle apparently have no home to go back to). So, the Corastin and Croid would be pretty satisfied - they hated being slaves, and probably hated the Lamorri in general. And, the Corastin and Croid seem to get along with Thriddle fine. The Ramian might be a little indifferent, or at least mixed. The Ramian, again, are like monkeys to the Lamorri. Enslaved, perhaps experimented upon, they would also welcome their new found freedom as well (and, again, Thriddle seem to be more accepted into Ramian folds - they can distinguish the sexes for example). Some Ramian may be upset that they can no longer return to their home world, but some may relish the thought that they do not have to. Now, what does this have to do with the humans, mutants and Iscin races? Well, the humans had peace with the Shantha. Humans naturally assert themselves. Some humans may have made inroads with Ramian and Corastin/Croid. These new humans and human mutations could potentially topple the Thriddle as the single most important race on Jorune - they could become the go betweens, the diplomats, etc. The Thriddle would not be so keen to have this happen. So, again, knowing that the Thriddle may have had a behind the scenes role in the defeat of the Lamorri, they may have also played a similar role in the Shanthic attacks on humans. And, creating chaos between the Crugar and Woffen could go a long way to disrupting things as well. Oh, those innocent Thriddle ... Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merak Gren Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Nice. Read some Larry Niven books with Puppeteers (aptly named). I've only read the Ringworld books so far. The pupperteers are the most cowardly and yet passive aggressive race in the galaxy. They started a war to eliminate their two biggest threats in the galaxy, effectively controled human and K'zin breeding over generations. Engineered all sorts of events to ensure the advantage to their species. Very interesting. I agree there is more to the Thriddle than meets the eye. A lot can be made of them in a campaign. Here's a challenge now, what else could the Thriddle be responsible for? Quote Likes to sneak around 115/420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vagabond Posted December 18, 2009 Author Share Posted December 18, 2009 Nice. Read some Larry Niven books with Puppeteers (aptly named). I've only read the Ringworld books so far. You assume I haven't already I agree there is more to the Thriddle than meets the eye. A lot can be made of them in a campaign. Here's a challenge now, what else could the Thriddle be responsible for? The existence of Thivin, Trarch, Muadra, Boccord? Bochigon are descended from Corastin/Croid stock, but did they come from the Corastin homeworld, or engineered on Jorune? Much of the Lamorri Isho tech, including whatever is under Ardoth and the Thoosahs? Various Ramian aggressions in search of Shirm-eh? The Cleash in Githaw, where they naturally would never go? The isolation of Tologora? Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merak Gren Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Crikey. You've done your homework. There's a lot of hood stuff there. I think you've covered just about most things. I'm in the middle of a xmas party now but will have a ponder in next few days. You're awesome. Quote Likes to sneak around 115/420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.