Dismiss Elemental - relevant Rune.

[Scornado]

The Rune for Dismiss Elemental description says the relevant rune "varies on elemental being summoned". That rather misses the point - the elemental is present already, but I guess that's just a proof-reading error.  Superficially it makes sense to use the same rune for dismissal, but that makes it quite difficult for an "opposed" cult member to dismiss an elemental.  For Example, Seven Mothers offers "Dismiss Darkness/Earth/Fire/ Water Elemental (small only)" but the cult runes are Death, Moon and Fertility, so an Initiate is unlikely to have a particularly high rating in any Elemental Rune other than Moon.  The Dismiss Elemental Rune Spell is therefore likely to be ineffectual.  Is that intentional? Would it be reasonable to provide some bonus for Dismissal in such circumstances?  Is choosing this as a cult Rune Spell just a bad choice?

Edited June 14, 2020 by Scornado

[soltakss]

It really does depend on the elemental.

Someone should be able to use the Air/Storm Rune to dismiss an air Elemental.

Similarly, someone with Earth Rune should be able to use it to dismiss an Air Elemental, due to the Elemental Progression Table.

A worshipper of Argan Argar should be able to use Darkness to dismiss a Fire Elemental (As Argan Argar chained Lodril)

 

So, for me, the following should apply:

• You can dismiss an Elemental with the Rune corresponding to that Element
• You can dismiss an Elemental with the Rune corresponding to the Element that defeats the Elemental's Element on the Elemental Progression Table
• You can dismiss an Elemental using a Rune based on the events of your Deity
• You can dismiss an Elemental using a Rune based on what is cool when you narrate it

53 minutes ago, Scornado said:

For Example, Seven Mothers offers "Dismiss Darkness/Earth/Fire/ Water Elemental (small only)" but the cult runes are Death, Moon and Fertility, so an Initiate is unlikely to have a particularly high rating in any Elemental Rune other than Moon.  The Dismiss Elemental Rune Spell is therefore likely to be ineffectual.  Is that intentional?

This is a tricky example, as the answer is not in the RQG Rulebook.

The Red Goddess freed the Young Elementals of Darkness/Water/Earth and Fire/Sky, on her GodQuest. She made these available to Lunar cults, so the Seven Mothers, for example, has a Subcult of the Young Elementals, so have access to those elements.

Now, some people will say "It's not in RQG so how can we use it?", but it was part of the Red Goddess and the Seven Mothers writeups in the past and I expect it to be present in Gods and Goddesses of Glorantha.

[Scornado]

Great, thanks Soltakss, I like your suggestion.

[Lordabdul]

5 hours ago, soltakss said:

the Elemental Progression Table

The what? Where's that? Are you talking about the Elements "wheel" diagram? (which doesn't have any "directions" that I can tell?)

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, lordabdul said:

The what? Where's that? Are you talking about the Elements "wheel" diagram? (which doesn't have any "directions" that I can tell?)

There are illustrated versions of this (see Zzabur's Sigil below from the Guide), but it is also summarized on RQG p.8 "The Elemental Runes are commonly conceived as being arranged on a wheel, where Fire/Sky is overcome by Water, Water by Air, Air by Earth, Earth by Darkness, and Darkness by Fire/Sky before the wheel cycles again."

Using this cycle, not only could you use the summoning element to dismiss it, but also the Element that overcomes it.  E.g. Use Water Rune to dismiss Fire elemental, use Air Rune to dismiss Water elemental, etc.

Alternately, you could draw upon the sorcerous minor Runes noted on RQG p.382, e.g. Darkness has minor Runes of Earth and Storm, Earth has minor Runes of Darkness and Fire, etc.

So I'd argue that the Elemental Progression Rune that is dominant over the elemental will give you the best chance to Dismiss it.  The same element will work too, and a minor Rune that is not dominant could also be invoked.  

Moon is an odd one.  There are no minor Runes and it is not part of the Elemental Progression.  However, Moon has associations with the Young Elementals, so I'd argue that this allows the Moon Rune to dismiss a small elemental of the four included (Earth, Water, Fire, Darkness).  Moon cannot dismiss Air elementals though under that logic.

[Lordabdul]

40 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

There are illustrated versions of this (see Zzabur's Sigil below from the Guide), but it is also summarized on RQG p.8 "The Elemental Runes are commonly conceived as being arranged on a wheel, where Fire/Sky is overcome by Water, Water by Air, Air by Earth, Earth by Darkness, and Darkness by Fire/Sky before the wheel cycles again."

Ok so yeah that's what I thought you were talking about, but since I could not find Zzabur's Sigil (the "wheel thing" I mentioned) in RQG, I didn't know how people who only have the rulebook would know about it... I had forgotten that it was explained simply in text in the introduction.

So yeah, thumbs up to your proposals -- using an elemental Rune that is known to overcome the elemental's nature fits perfectly.