Please, update me on Pendragon's editions...

[smiorgan]

Oh, knowledgeable noble sirs and ladies,

I'm thinking of going back to Pendragon soon-ish... I've got the 4th edition of the game - the big softcover with Celtic magic etc. and several supplements for 3e and 4e. I also have the GPC for 5e, which seems mostly useable with 4e and bits of the Boy King for chargen.

Should I upgrade to the 5th edition? What am I missing?

What are the differences between 5.0 (Arthouse), 5.1 (Nocturnal) and 5.2 (Nocturnal/ Chaosium)? They have different covers, but apart from that?

Is a 6th edition coming out anytime soon?

Your humble squire,

Smiorgan Baldhead,    

[Morien]

2 hours ago, smiorgan said:

Should I upgrade to the 5th edition? What am I missing?

Not much, especially since you already have GPC.

There are some changes to the character generation, some minor changes to combat (such as Double Feint being dropped as a tactic), and the starting date has been moved back to 485 (480 in Book of Uther). However, the vast majority of the rules are the same. You can easily play your game with 4e. Frankly, since 5e has been rather deficient in new adventure books, most of us end up using 3e and 4e adventure books in their campaigns anyway, and it works out just fine.

Salisbury in 485 (5.2) is almost carbon-copied from 531 (4e), and you can get the free supplement, The Marriage of Count Roderick, to fill in the current ruling family as you go back a generation, with Count (Earl in 4e) Robert born in 492. It is available at Chaosium website. If you are really into Uther Period, then Book of Uther is a good buy, rather than 5.2 (which again, is repeating a lot of stuff you already have in 4e). However, personally I would advise you to stick with the regional nobles as portrayed in 4e and GPC (each county has its own noble in charge of the whole county), rather than using the scattered landholdings as in Book of the Warlord and BoUther (each higher noble owns bits and pieces of land all over Logres). Regional nobles are way way easier to GM and to explain to people, and since the change postdates GPC, you save yourself some conversion headaches, too.

Here is a link to my advice, including what 5e books to buy:

Note that it is geared towards a person who is starting with nothing. Since you have 4e and not 5.2, you would derive more value, IMHO, from BoUther than BotWarlord, simply because BoUther helps to fill in personages and the current state of things better. GPC does decently well in that regard by itself, though; I would not consider BoUther to be mandatory, simply useful. The rest of my suggestions are pretty much valid, though, except I would add that I keep hearing people singing the praises of the Book of Feasts, so that might skip towards the top of my list of books to buy. Especially since it ought to be useful throughout the campaign, too.

Edited June 20, 2020 by Morien

[Uqbarian]

8 hours ago, smiorgan said:

Is a 6th edition coming out anytime soon?

Apparently it's being worked on, but Chaosium haven't made an official announcement about dates.

[Call Me Deacon Blues]

Yeah, if you've got 4th edition, I wouldn't worry about getting 5th. The only changes in 5th, 5.1, and 5.2 are artwork and editing and a few-odd rules clarifications/updates. I actually prefer Book of Knights and Ladies for character creation, but they are planning on doing a new version of it, Knights and Ladies Adventurous, for 6th edition so i wouldn't worry about it unless you can get it in a sale/bundle, or you really want rules for foreign knights because the new one isn't going to include those rules last i heard. 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Call Me Deacon Blues

[Atgxtg]

6 minutes ago, Call Me Deacon Blues said:

Yeah, if you've got 4th edition, I wouldn't worry about getting 5th. The only changes in 5th, 5.1, and 5.2 are artwork and editing and a few-odd rules clarifications/updates.

That's true with teh core rule book, but overlooks all the cool stuff that came out in the various

 

22 hours ago, smiorgan said:

Should I upgrade to the 5th edition? What am I missing?

Probably not. 6th edition is supposedly in the works, and close enough to completion that all the announced supplements "in the pipeline" are going to be updated to KAP6 rules. So I'd suggest wait for KAP6 unless you want to run with the newest rules, now, in which case get 5.2.

 

But the KAP5 supplements are definitely still worth a look. 

 

22 hours ago, smiorgan said:

What are the differences between 5.0 (Arthouse), 5.1 (Nocturnal) and 5.2 (Nocturnal/ Chaosium)? They have different covers, but apart from that?

KAP5 was Greg getting control back of Pendragon after several years of it being owned by Green Knight. The rules are mostly the same as KAP4 but with a lot of editing errors. It really looks like whoever edtited it didn't understand the game, and put in a lot of "common sense" changes to fix loopholes that were actually design features in the game. It's best avoided.

5.1 is essentially a corrected (better edited) version of KAP 5. 

5.2 is pretty much the same as KAP5.1 but focused a bit more towards the early peroids of the game. It assumes Uther is King, and Arthur is something for the future. 

IMO, the stuff worth looking at are the various KAP 5 supplments (all except for the Book of the Manor which can ruin a campaign, and has been mostly superseded by the Book of the Estate). Just how much people like any given supplment varies from Person to person, so it's worth reading the decriiption to see what topics appeal to you. 

But, as in the past, none of the supplements are vital (The Great Pendragon Campaign comes close to being vital, and tops most people's list for required supplements, but a GM can run Pendragon without it). Also, as in the past, the core game hasn't really changed all that much (and probably won't in the future), so a GM can  still run older stuff with the newest rules are vice versa. 

22 hours ago, smiorgan said:

Is a 6th edition coming out anytime soon?

Who knows? All e really know is that it is in the works, incdlues changes that were mostly dfone by/approved by Greg before his passing, and that all the previously announced KAP5 supplements are going to be for KAP6 rules.

Considering the history of the game, I dobut there will be any radical changes, with the biggest differences probably coming in chargen, and possibly making everything consistent with the latter supplements (mostly minor economics stuff- the base manor income has been raised but to base manor upkeep has also been increased, so it's mostly a wash). There are a couple of things that Greg hinted at, like a tiered Chivalry bonus, but we don't know if any of that was finished and going to be implemented in the new rules or not.