Lineage & Battle Boast rules from Saxons!

[Luca Cherstich]

I bought a pdf copy of Saxons!

I know it's an old edition, and I know it is supposed to be mostly for playing Saxons....but I found a couple of very interesting rules, and I was wondering about how (and IF)  to incorporate them into my regular KAP games, or whether it is worth to.

The first rule is about "lineage" which seems like a great idea for Cymric and Roman knights too (Saxons! p.67-69, 127 and 136).

I like the way it gives you some "recognition" of your ancestors, some glory per year and possibility to lose such a connection is some other families claim to have a better link (e.g. you fail the Love Family winter phase roll).

However....I'm not sure if this can really be used "as it is" for knights, since the glory they inherit from fathers (especially if one uses Book of Sires) is quite high, which means that they will all get very famous lineages.

 

The second rule that I like is about "Honor (Battle Boast)" (Saxons! p.122-123) which give you Honor bonus to a specific task but, if you do not perform it, you lose honor.

The author suggests to use also for other Pagans....but I was wondering whether this can be used also fro Christian knights making solemn vows to perform a certain duty.

 

Does anybody have any experience trying to adapt these rules to knights, preferably compatible with KAP 5?

Edited September 9, 2020 by Luca Cherstich

[Tizun Thane]

46 minutes ago, Luca Cherstich said:

.but I was wondering whether this can be used also fro Christian knights making solemn vows to perform a certain duty.

To be honest, in my game, if a knight makes a solemn vow to perform a certain duty, he can inspire himself under honor. He gains glory according to the task, nothing more, nothing less.

[Morien]

13 minutes ago, Tizun Thane said:

To be honest, in my game, if a knight makes a solemn vow to perform a certain duty, he can inspire himself under honor. He gains glory according to the task, nothing more, nothing less.

Probably the way I would GM it, as well.

Paladin has also some rules about 'wagering' Honor: Taking an oath to do something (or not do something) and gaining Honor thereby if you fulfill your oath.

[Luca Cherstich]

24 minutes ago, Tizun Thane said:

To be honest, in my game, if a knight makes a solemn vow to perform a certain duty, he can inspire himself under honor. He gains glory according to the task, nothing more, nothing less.

I have done the same thus far, but I kind of like the way it standardize the Vow and not fulfilling it.

11 minutes ago, Morien said:

Paladin has also some rules about 'wagering' Honor: Taking an oath to do something (or not do something) and gaining Honor thereby if you fulfill your oath.

Maybe I should have a look at it....thanks!

[Atgxtg]

On 9/9/2020 at 4:28 AM, Luca Cherstich said:

The first rule is about "lineage" which seems like a great idea for Cymric and Roman knights too (Saxons! p.67-69, 127 and 136).

I think the thing is that knights will end up eclipsing heroic ancestors, making the link less important. Being related to some "great hero" who died with 6 000 Glory probably doesn't mean as much when you've got 20 000 Glory.

On 9/9/2020 at 4:28 AM, Luca Cherstich said:

However....I'm not sure if this can really be used "as it is" for knights, since the glory they inherit from fathers (especially if one uses Book of Sires) is quite high, which means that they will all get very famous lineages.

Exactly. Glory is sort of a knightly prerogative, so almost any knight is going to have more glory than a non-knightly ancestor. It's also why medieval historians used to retoractively make famous people such as Julius Caesar and Alexander the Great knights. By chivalric thinking such men would have had to be knights in order to be so great.

On 9/9/2020 at 4:28 AM, Luca Cherstich said:

 

The second rule that I like is about "Honor (Battle Boast)" (Saxons! p.122-123) which give you Honor bonus to a specific task but, if you do not perform it, you lose honor.

The author suggests to use also for other Pagans....but I was wondering whether this can be used also fro Christian knights making solemn vows to perform a certain duty.

Probably, but it would most likely be frowned upon by the church. Most such vows were usually sworn "by" something, typically a God, and is actually what constitutes "swearing" -not profanity.  

On 9/9/2020 at 4:28 AM, Luca Cherstich said:

 

Does anybody have any experience trying to adapt these rules to knights, preferably compatible with KAP 5?

Some. I kinda used them to add flavor to some Saxon NPCs, but didn't use them for any PKs- mostly due to my downplaying Saxon heritage in order to make the Saxon PKs part of Aurelius & Uthers cadre or "modern" knights.  I did adapt the shapeshifter rules (quite a bit) to have a PK Ulfsark. A PK went mad during a fight, accomplish a few heroic things (the player was rolling low, and the penalties he was suffering ended up turning his die rolls into critical successes), and chased the enemy off into the forest. When he came too he met a strange one eyed traveler...

[Leingod]

3 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Probably, but it would most likely be frowned upon by the church. Most such vows were usually sworn "by" something, typically a God, and is actually what constitutes "swearing" -not profanity.  

On the other hand, clerical disapproval didn't stop people from swearing, they just made up minced oaths, and whatever the clergy might try to tell people about that, there are minced oaths being used in the Bible itself. So you can just make up some euphemistic way to swear the oath or vow.

[Atgxtg]

7 hours ago, Leingod said:

On the other hand, clerical disapproval didn't stop people from swearing,

No they didn't. Like many other things the clergy didn't approve of. Think of that the next time your knights get shot at by Milanese Crossbowmen. 

Plus it could away open the door for an indulgence.