Magical Geography

[kr0p0s]

The Guide is a goldmine of information. Having a look through and came across the info box and map on magical geography (GtG 296/7), giving the maps of the glowline and the spheres of influence of the Lunar and Orlanthi religions. The Lunar spheres being centred around Temples of the reaching Moon and Orlanths around various Holy Mountains.  Of course it explains a lot about the dynamic between the Red Goddess and Orlanth around Dragon Pass.

But, my eye was caught by the position of Mount Selon, right down on the end of the Mislari mountains. Very much an outpost of Orlanth. Although it does help to explain the history of the Orlanthi in the region, and why in second age Slontos "Many semi-civilized tribes remained in the southern reaches of the Arstola Forest of Maniria, clinging to their ancient Orlanthi ways". The initial shape of Kotor (second Age c700), with the finger pointing out along the Mislari Mountains toward Selon is also explained. I imagine Selon would draw pilgrims from as far away as the Salfester region being the by far nearest holy mountain.

A large part of what is now Solanthi lands and the Nimistor valley below Jaraz are not within a radius of a holy mountain of Orlanth. He can only be contacted at a consecrated temple in these regions.

• Would these temples have their own (lesser) radii, as the Temples of the Reaching Moon do?
• Would the influence of Orlanth be lessened as a result and the local population lean more toward other Lightbringers, Ernalda and local gods? 
• Would there be penalties for worship, POW gain, Heroquesting or Rune Inspiration outside the range the magical geography of a god?

What would the magical geography map for other gods look like? Would Ernalda be contactable more widely that Orlanth and The Red Goddess, except in areas of blight and chaos? Is it possible that we will see some further maps in GoG when it comes out?

Edited January 29, 2022 by kr0p0s

[Joerg]

Ernaldela is the land north of the Spike, possibly limited to the triangle formed by the Spike and the two northern corners of the Lozenge, with the western and eastern lands and Pamaltela having a differently addressed queen of the land. (Pamaltela has Faranar in the queen position and Aleshmara in the grandmother matriarch one.) But then the monomyth goes on to identify all of those as one and the same.

The Water deities are pretty much a no-brainer, other than Heler.

Darkness tends to aggregate around access paths to the Underworld, like the Castle(s) of Lead or the Obsidian Palace. Some of those places also manifest protective shadows, at least Dagori Inkarth /"Shadows Dance") and the Shadow Plateau.

Sky worship possibly radiates from the imperial palaces and/or their sun temples, whether in Dara Happa, Carmania, or the Vithelan successors..

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, kr0p0s said:

Would these temples have their own (lesser) radii, as the Temples of the Reaching Moon do?

Much more limited - really just the sanctified ground of the temple.

4 hours ago, kr0p0s said:

Would the influence of Orlanth be lessened as a result and the local population lean more toward other Lightbringers, Ernalda and local gods? 

Not necessarily.  Any hill consecrated and sanctified to Orlanth can still summon the presence of Orlanth.  The air is all about after all.

4 hours ago, kr0p0s said:

Would there be penalties for worship, POW gain, Heroquesting or Rune Inspiration outside the range the magical geography of a god?

If you think about it, Orlanth's magical "geography" is the Air.  If you've got air around, there should not be any penalties.  If you get to a magic mountain, there would be bonuses.  Only if you go underground, into the Sea, or into the Sky realm beyond the reach of Air would you face definite penalties.

Similarly, all the Earth is Ernalda's magical "geography".  If you're touching the earth, you are contacting Ernalda.

Now if you think about Yelm, his "geography" is daytime, particularly clear, cloudless skies beneath the Sun.  Many of his powers will not work well at Night.  And the powers of Darkness will be similarly limited in the daytime.

[kr0p0s]

17 hours ago, jajagappa said:

If you think about it, Orlanth's magical "geography" is the Air.

To a certain extent yes. But his core territory is clustered around the sacred mountains of Orlanth. To quote the Magical Geography section in GtG:

Quote

The Storm God Orlanth is manifest atop his Great Sacred Mountains, and he is most easily and directly spoken with there. Worshipers within a radius of nearly 650 miles from either Kero Fin or Top of the World, for example, may magically commune with the god atop those mountains each High Holy Day worship ceremony. Those within a radius of approximately 165 miles of a Great Sacred Mountain can converse with the god on every seasonal holy day. Those within a radius of nearly 100 miles of a Sacred Mountain can contact the god each Windsday. Otherwise, temples must be built and consecrated beyond these regions.

Worshippers within in these radii can commune directly with their god wherever they are. This must be a powerful affirmation of their faith and strengthen their devotion to Orlanth. Outside these areas your are reliant on the priesthood to provide you with contact, and all that entails.

The section goes on to say:

Quote

Some scholars speculate that the proximity to these different mountains accounts for many of the regional differences found in the Orlanth cults across Genertela.

Presumably in the case of the Orlanthi of upper Nimistor within the radius of Selon there may be some significant differences from Dragon Pass Orlanthi, possibly connected to the piece of the Sky Dome that fell there?

[soltakss]

23 hours ago, kr0p0s said:

But, my eye was caught by the position of Mount Selon, right down on the end of the Mislari mountains. Very much an outpost of Orlanth.

For me, what is even more interesting is the missing Sacred Mountain, between Selon and Mount Soren.

Ramor Mountain seems to fit nicely, has a tribe of Goat Hsunchen and is, in my Glorantha, the Sacred Mountain of Ragnaglar.

The 165 mile zones of all the other mountains overlap, except for Selon and Soren, but if you have zones for Ramor then they overlap, giving a continuous Orlanthi influence along the Rockwoods.

[Darius West]

On 1/29/2022 at 11:54 PM, kr0p0s said:

 

• Would these temples have their own (lesser) radii, as the Temples of the Reaching Moon do?
• Would the influence of Orlanth be lessened as a result and the local population lean more toward other Lightbringers, Ernalda and local gods? 
• Would there be penalties for worship, POW gain, Heroquesting or Rune Inspiration outside the range the magical geography of a god?

What would the magical geography map for other gods look like? Would Ernalda be contactable more widely that Orlanth and The Red Goddess, except in areas of blight and chaos? Is it possible that we will see some further maps in GoG when it comes out?

In answer to your questions, imo:

1st Question.

The Temple of the Reaching Moon is a form of magical technology that extends a certain amount of Lunar magic for Lunar initiates to call upon beyond that which their cyclical magic would provide.  We know it is just a form of magical technology because they are retro-engineered into Temples of the Reaching Storm later in the Hero Wars. Other temples don't work that way at all because they aren't tied to lunar cyclical magic and don't need that artificial boost.  Yes, temples are created via a sanctification of a space in the name of a specific god or pantheon, but that is where the similarity with the Glowline ends.  I would also point out that the Glowline doesn't represent a sanctified area, as non-Lunars who are killed within its borders can still use Divine Intervention, whereas if you were within the temple of a hostile god, that wouldn't be the case.

2nd Question.

The influence of Gods is proportional to their propitiation.  The more worshippers there are of a specific god, the more power that god has in Glorantha in general and in a specific region in particular.  I draw your attention to RQG page 284.  The number of worshippers determine the scale of the temple and the size of the blessing that can be obtained.  Worship amounts to the people saying "Hey you big wonderful anthropomorphized cosmic principle, remember us?  We formed a metaphysical connection with you a while ago, well, we have been mainly faithful to your preferences, and now we have made you a marvelous magical POW sandwich and in return we would like you to lend us your specific abilities as per our mutual agreement.  We hope this meets with your approval."  The bigger the "sandwich", the bigger the return.

3rd Question.

Yes.  Absolutely.  If you are in an area unknown to your god, you might also be "lost in the Hero Plane".

There is an interesting parallel to be made with how most cultures (as diverse as Norse and Koories) deal with the sacredness of land that likely applies to Glorantha as well, as it seems to be an integral part of Glorantha too.  Deities moved across the world, and interacted with it, altering the world and creating the landscape.  Moderns like ourselves look at a mountain and see interesting geomorphology.  A Norseman literally sees the grave of a giant.  Strange features on the mountain will be interpreted in light of the death of the giant.

Within Glorantha, one of the most difficult things to understand is what Glorantha was like Before Time.  Time is a recent thing. It may actually signal the slow motion death of the world through Entropy.  Perhaps time was cyclical before?  Perhaps not.  What we can say however is that Gods moved on the face of the world and altered it, and where they performed their deeds became forever linked to them.  The world back then had no Time, but it had Space, and the stories of the Gods play out across that territory.  Does it have a chronological order?  Sort of.  For example, we know most gods have a notional birth and childhood, which would seem impossible to us without Time, but can be understood within Space instead.

4th Question.

You ask about magical geography and what those maps would look like. Actually we already largely have those maps, because the gods have power where they are worshipped, with the exceptions of those lands that have sunk or been destroyed, such as the Spike.  Think about all the Yelmish hero quests that are no longer possible because the Spike no longer exists.  Destroy the land, change the story.

5th Question.

Is Ernalda more widely contactable than Orlanth or the RMG?  Let me put it this way.  If an Orlanthi is able to breathe, they are in connection to their god, and their god is within them in their lungs.  On the other hand, does that mean that an Ernaldan cannot use her magic because she doesn't have her feet on the Earth?  Of course not.  What is important is not contact with one's deity's element, but initiation and the size of the channel one creates when you sacrifice POW to your deity.

 

[kr0p0s]

1 hour ago, Darius West said:

Destroy the land, change the story.

The Godlearners spring to mind. Seshnela, jrustela and Slontos. They had their magical geographical rug pulled out from under them!