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Premature death issues


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A PK died while his heir was 14 y.o. so I encouraged the player to make a kinsman to play while the heir grows.

He made a 50 y.o uncle and it was fun for all, but now some bad luck (major wounds and getting old) made his APP decrease to 3. And the heir is still 16... What to do now?

I don't want to make him play another kinsman but he wants to play the heir as squire and don't think it'll be a good idea (there are only two players in my campaign and the other one plays a 8000 glory PK). 

Also there's the issue with the servitum debitum of the manor as the old uncle can't fight but still lives and there is no knight till the heir becomes knight 😱

What do you think?

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This would be the reason why I usually ensure that each PK family starts with three brothers spread about 7 years apart. The eldest is the PK and the other two are the spares. Once the first generation is finished, there are often cadet branches established by these younger brothers, ensuring that there are plenty of interesting cousins to play while the main branch heir grows up. And makes it much harder for the whole family to die out. 

But to bring this back to your question, you kinda shot yourself in the foot by allowing for a 50 year old uncle to start with. If the Player wants to play a squire, let him. A couple of years and some heroics on his part, and he is ready to get knighted at 18.

Since you have only two players, this is no problem whatsoever. Frankly, make him the squire of the other, glorious PK, and watch hilarity ensue. You can easily, easily throw appropriate adventures for such a pair for a couple of years, such as the knight interacting with the noble host and hostess, while the squire gossips with the other squires and even servants.

Servitium debitum is not a problem. The old uncle takes vows and retires to a monastery, and the liege, already the legal guardian of the heir, simply makes up for the lack with one of his household knights.

What year is this happening?

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34 minutes ago, Morien said:

But to bring this back to your question, you kinda shot yourself in the foot by allowing for a 50 year old uncle to start with

I allowed because the player insisted he wanted to experiment with the role of a veteran and it was fun enough, which is the main objective!

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I've been keeping some of the initial knights' family trees somewhat loose in the early years, to allow for "bad luck, here's your brother Sir So-and-so" situations.

I had one player lose a character relatively early, who wanted to have her replaced with her newly-created twin brother. I agreed. It was all fun and games until the aging checks...

(EDIT: Keeping it vague also adds something extra to the Family Events at the end of the year. Maybe you get an interesting story out of one of them, and the player decides to adopt the family member affected as a PK later on.)

Edited by SaxBasilisk
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20 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

I don't want to make him play another kinsman but he wants to play the heir as squire and don't think it'll be a good idea (there are only two players in my campaign and the other one plays a 8000 glory PK). 

It could be fun to play a squire a few years. Good RP dynamics between the players.

Otherwise, you could keep the ugly uncle a few years more, and ignore the rules for now.

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21 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

It's the end of 500, next year 501. Next year I'm planning to run the wedding of Morgan using for the first time the BoFeasts so I think it will be a nice chance for the squire to do things.

Yes. 502 is not a particularly 'busy' year, either, by which I mean there are no big battles or such. You should be able to throw more 'social' adventures at the Players, or testing ones. Especially if the Squire's family characteristic is something useful that the Glorious Knight doesn't have, such as Hunting or Faerie Lore. Faerie-related adventures might work well, since they tend to rely more on traits than skills, and this would even the playing field between the Glorious Knight and the Squire. If you have not run the Adventure of the White Horse (3rd and 4th edition rulebooks), that could be a good one. I'd make sure that the Squire gets to ride his father's Charger or something for that adventure, though.

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1 hour ago, Morien said:

Faerie-related adventures might work well, since they tend to rely more on traits than skills, and this would even the playing field between the Glorious Knight and the Squire.

What do you think (as you recommended not to use the Savage Forest during the Anarchy) to run some adventures related to the Forest of Gloom/Glamour? Maybe taking advantage of Glorious Knight being an officer of Salisbury (seneschal).

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58 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

What do you think (as you recommended not to use the Savage Forest during the Anarchy) to run some adventures related to the Forest of Gloom/Glamour? 

Yes, that works as a good substitute and is right outside Salisbury. Besides, in BotW, there is clearly some friction there, what with the neighboring hundreds having been part of Summerland. The peasants there could easily be 'weird', still. Suspicious of outsiders, etc.

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  • 2 weeks later...
38 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

Apart from the White Horse what adventures do you recommend for a glorious and a squire in the 501 year? Preferably in Salisbury, as the knight is the seneschal...

Mysterious Manor might work. Light on battle, heavy on talking to people. (Adjusting to the time and location, of course... No Brus sans Pitie yet.)

Birthday Hunt from Dragons of Britain #1, with some adjustments (Robert is too young but maybe some other noteworthy youth in Salisbury?).

Edited by Morien
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I just ran an adapted version of the Mysterious Manor as an all-squire adventure, as it happens, and it worked pretty well.  A bit of a sitcom, with the long-suffering squires having to get their bumbling, lustful knight out of a pickle.  (The year was even 501!)  

It’s in Tales of Chivalry and Romance.

Edited by Voord 99
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2/8/2022 at 2:31 AM, The Wanderer said:

Also there's the issue with the servitum debitum of the manor as the old uncle can't fight but still lives and there is no knight till the heir becomes knight 😱

The heir's family can pay for a mercenary to fill the role for 2 years.  This is the origin of scutage.

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In this situation, I believe the rights go to the lord until the heir is of age, as the heir is legally the lord’s ward (as Morien says above).  It sounds as if the lord appointed the uncle as steward of the manor, which is reasonable enough.  But if the uncle is not able to carry out his duties, then the lord can remove him from the stewardship and appoint someone who can.  The uncle serves as steward of the manor at the lord’s pleasure.  He has no actual rights to it (and so no duties connected with it, either) unless the lord so chooses.  

The uncle could definitely offer to pay for a mercenary in return for being left in charge of the manor, but it would be up to the lord whether or not they wanted to accept that.  Of course, a wise lord might well be happy to accept that rather than anger an important vassal’s family.  But a greedy or arrogant lord might look to extract a little extra, in return for going along with it.  How have the uncle’s relations been with Roderick (or whoever)?

Edited by Voord 99
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