PhilHibbs Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 An admin on Wikipedia has flagged the Basic Roleplaying article as not having established notability of the subject matter, and thus may be considered for deletion at some point. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Role-Playing Now I know what you're all thinking, but don't. A flood of fans all logging on and saying "It's notable, we know it, it's historically significant and great and stuff" isn't going to help. Appologies for the characterisation, I exaggerate for comic effect. What *will* help is references to published material that states that BRP is historically significant to the hobby, and preferably which is independent of Chaosium, Games Workshop, and anyone else directly linked to the material. By this I mean reviews and historical articles in publications such as Dragon, Escapist, etc. or, even better, in mainstream publications outside the hobby. Blogs of prominent industry people like Ken Rolston are also good, even though he worked for Avalon Hill on the RQ stuff. If you find something, then you can either navigate the maze of templates and citation rules, or just post a reply here and I'll do that bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarulf Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Didn't Shannon Appelcline write a history of Chaosium over at rpg.net that might be useful? And here it is: http://www.rpg.net/columns/briefhistory/briefhistory3.phtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaot Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 My first thought was that whoever flagged it knows nothing about roleplaying other than D&D. My second thought was that both Steve Perrin and Shannon Applecline should be contacted about this. Both seem to be likely to respond. They would both have solid information about the history and prominence of BRP. Two other people who may have an abundance of citable sources for BRP are Peter Maranci and Nick Middleton. They both have high levels in their BRP Lore Skill. Actually, a lot of people on this board have a high BRP skill level (a certain Hibbs character comes to mind), so maybe someone else can weigh in on this. I don’t really have a working knowledge of the wikipedia editing process, but I can share an excel file that someone posted listing all of the BRP articles published in Legend, White Dwarf, and Different Worlds. Unfortunately, I don’t know how much attention Chaosium will pay to this. Quote 70/420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badcat Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Wikipedia is rather notoriously unreliable as a source of information, so what difference does it make in the great scheme of things? It's not like tabletop rpgs are ever going to be a mainstream media or interest anyway. Let them wallow in ignorance, I say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaot Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Well, some would say that wikipedia is just as good a source on information as the Encyclopedia Britannica. http://www.news.com/Study+Wikipedia+as+accurate+as+Britannica/2100-1038_3-5997332.html Regardless, it's a well known jumping off point for a large amount of people who want information. And the article in question seems to be fairly accurate. I wonder what the monkey who reported it was thinking. Quote 70/420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badcat Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 So they would. But more than once I have had people comment on inaccuracies in various Wikipedia articles. Enough to make me take information obtained therefrom with a grain of salt. I admit that sometimes I use it when I want a general idea on something; but if I want accurate trustworthy data I look elsewhere, and I think lots of other folks do too. For sure, I don't think it's worth getting worked up over. Monkeys will be monkeys, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trifletraxor Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Wikipedia might not be much reliable, but a lot of people stop by there. I have had many hits from the link I posted there, so I do hope the page will remain. SGL. Quote Ef plest master, this mighty fine grub! 116/420. High Priest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHibbs Posted September 14, 2007 Author Share Posted September 14, 2007 I think enough has been done in linking to Shannon's article on RPGNet. Thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Twig Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 I have a couple of books at home that talk generally about role-playing games and both mention Chaosium. How could they not? I think a couple of published sources would be valuable. I will post the relevant information here when I get back to the books. Quote The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970) 30/420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badcat Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Maybe they are D20 fans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enpeze Posted September 15, 2007 Share Posted September 15, 2007 I am shocked. They want to throw out the chapter about BRP? This wiki moderator is probably mad. I didnt know that it is even possible in Wikipedia that just one person decides if a certain wiki article is notable or not. Since I read this thread I was a fan of wiki. But now, I am not so sure anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monteblanco Posted September 15, 2007 Share Posted September 15, 2007 I checked the site and the discussions about it and I found no reference to taking the topic out. Perhaps the situation have changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Paul Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 Badcat- Good press, bad press it doesn't matter as long as they spell the name right. If it is found on Wikipedia people will find it. If the information is wrong then get in there and correct it. Joseph Paul Quote __________________ Joseph Paul "Nothing partys like a rental" explains the enduring popularity of prostitution.:eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badcat Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 You think? I don't see any reason why I should try to correct anyone else's ignorance on a wide open pseudo-encyclopedia, though...I'm the wrong guy to throw that particular challenge at. Anyway, I plan to do demos of BRP at local stores to help get the word out, as my part. I hope everone here has similar plans, even if it is to input factual material on wikipedia about the history of rpgs. Just do something. Every little bit will help.:cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorloc Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 Hm. now there's an idea... I don't actually have a presence at the closest game store (not intereseted in dnd or CCG, so they've got very little to interest me), but if I can get them to host the game, and I run it... or better yet, my wife runs it (she will get people in the door, even if they're then too intimidated to sit at the table "huh, huh... it's a ... a *girl*... <pant> ...with boobies and everything...") Oh, yeah, I can be harsh on my peers... Quote The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done." George Carlin (1937 - 2008) _____________ (92/420) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Paul Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 Face-to-face demos are a good way to popularize BRP on a local level. But let's not dissuade others from waving the flag in other venues. I don't see a problem with reliability if fans of the system are willing to make the information reliable in the first place which seems to be what has happened so far. Joseph Paul Quote __________________ Joseph Paul "Nothing partys like a rental" explains the enduring popularity of prostitution.:eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badcat Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 Fine by me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Twig Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Finally found my book. Here is are a couple quote that might be useful: "After Dungeons & Dragons, RuneQuest became the most influential fantasy role-playing game in the entire hobby." -p. 130 "...the RuneQuest system introduced many new ideas in the realms of character creation, task resolution, and combat resolution. Perrin's design went on to become both the first house system - it has been used in almost every game that Chaosium has done - and the first universal system. Eventually called Basic Role-Playing, it was used in the Worlds of Wonder multi-genre game set, published in 1982." -p. 130-131 Title: The Fantasy Role-Playing Gamer's Bible Author: Sean Patrick Fannon Publisher: Prima Publishing Copyright 1996 by Sean Patrick Fannon. ISBN: 0-7615-0264-7 Library of Congress Catalog Card Number: 95-70655 Quote The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970) 30/420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHibbs Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 I am shocked. They want to throw out the chapter about BRP? This wiki moderator is probably mad. I didnt know that it is even possible in Wikipedia that just one person decides if a certain wiki article is notable or not. Since I read this thread I was a fan of wiki. But now, I am not so sure anymore. It's not an encyclopedia of roleplaying, it's a general encyclopedia. There's no reason why any particular administrator should know the first thing about roleplaying. The article had no references to back up any assertion of notability, so an admin tagged it as such. Essentially he said "I see no reliable independent evidence that this is notable - provide such evidence or it will be considered for deletion". Note the word "considered" - it means that it will be flagged for debate. Not for deletion, but for debate. No reason to get wound up at all, this is just the system working the way it is supposed to. I spotted it, and helped to sort out the situation. Job done, move on, no need to get annoyed over anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Paul Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Thank you for your efforts Mr. Hibbs. Joseph Paul Quote __________________ Joseph Paul "Nothing partys like a rental" explains the enduring popularity of prostitution.:eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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