Geneology of Gustbran ?

[Agentorange]

I was reading about Gustbran in the Gloranthan Sourcebook and over at the Well of Daliath and i was curious about Gustbrans place in things. His father is of course Lodril, and Lodril starts off as a fire/sky God and after a whole series of adventures nows occupies a slightly ambiguous position where some peoples view him as a earth god.

Anyway I digress. lodril is the father of the Lowfires - of which Gustbran is a member. Which leads me to my first question:

Who is or are the mother ( mothers  ) of the lowfires ? There's nothing on the family tree in the GSB to show and I can't see it mentioned anywhere. is the fact that the Lowfires are called " The fires of the earth" significant here ?

Next, it's said that Gustbran hid inside mahome until he came forth. Does this mean that Gustbran is simply an aspect of Mahome ? or that she gave birth to him via a sort divine parthogenesis ? is Lodril gustbrans father with mahome or  just in the sense that he fathered both of them and Gustbran hid inside mahome....Which leads us neatly back to whose the mother then ?

Edited January 9, 2023 by Agentorange

[mfbrandi]

17 minutes ago, Agentorange said:

Who is or are the mother (mothers) of the lowfires ?

Well of Daliath:

Quote

Lodril made many many gifts for Asrelia, and together they awakened the earth with their children.

Which seems a good enough bet. Of course, it is questionable whether the different “generations” of earth goddesses are really distinct entities. When Orlanth usurps the kingdom, he takes on the earth’s/Ernalda’s fiery children, too — Orlanatus the wicked step-father?

Storm Tribe (p. 217) has Gustbran hiding in Mahome’s cloak, rather than inside Mahome, but perhaps that is a euphemism and his sister is his mother, too. Or perhaps the cloak in question is the cloak that Vinga wrapped around Mahome (Storm Tribe, p. 168) — in tough times, when the forge fire is out, the hearth fire still burns and the forge can be re-lit from it?

[metcalph]

32 minutes ago, Agentorange said:

Who is or are the mother ( mothers  ) of the lowfires ? There's nothing on the family tree in the GSB to show and I can't see it mentioned anywhere. is the fact that the Lowfires are called " The fires of the earth" significant here ?

The simplest answer surely is that Gustbran has no mother and his mother is Mahome.  I don't see what the problem is.  Many other gods have conflicting parentages.

 

[Agentorange]

18 minutes ago, metcalph said:

The simplest answer surely is that Gustbran has no mother and his mother is Mahome.  I don't see what the problem is.  Many other gods have conflicting parentages.

 

There isn't a problem, I'm just curious if anything had ever been decided. I've got this idea for a story and wondered if there was an "official" version of the situation as it were.

[Agentorange]

24 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

Well of Daliath:

Which seems a good enough bet. Of course, it is questionable whether the different “generations” of earth goddesses are really distinct entities. When Orlanth usurps the kingdom, he takes on the earth’s/Ernalda’s fiery children, too — Orlanatus the wicked step-father?

Storm Tribe (p. 217) has Gustbran hiding in Mahome’s cloak, rather than inside Mahome, but perhaps that is a euphemism and his sister is his mother, too. Or perhaps the cloak in question is the cloak that Vinga wrapped around Mahome (Storm Tribe, p. 168) — in tough times, when the forge fire is out, the hearth fire still burns and the forge can be re-lit from it?

I like the Asrelia idea a lot. certainly dovetails nicely with the "fires of the earth".

[davecake]

Gustbran the smith god as the child of Asrelia, who is among other things the goddess of mining and so a source of metal, makes perfect sense. I’m sure many people believe it, if it isn’t canonical. 

[Agentorange]

1 hour ago, davecake said:

Gustbran the smith god as the child of Asrelia, who is among other things the goddess of mining and so a source of metal, makes perfect sense. I’m sure many people believe it, if it isn’t canonical. 

It certainly works for me.

[soltakss]

On 1/9/2023 at 8:01 AM, Agentorange said:

Who is or are the mother ( mothers  ) of the lowfires ? There's nothing on the family tree in the GSB to show and I can't see it mentioned anywhere. is the fact that the Lowfires are called " The fires of the earth" significant here ?

Personally, I like the idea that deities just spring from another with no other parent.

However, if you want a mother, Asrelia or Esrola might be good. Other people have mentioned Asrelia as Gustbran's mother, so Esrola for Mahome's mother works well.

Oakfed might be just the Holy Fire or Wild Fire, so he might not have a mother, or he could have been born of Caladra, who is a fiery daughter of Lodril.

 

[Agentorange]

1 minute ago, soltakss said:

Personally, I like the idea that deities just spring from another with no other parent.

However, if you want a mother, Asrelia or Esrola might be good. Other people have mentioned Asrelia as Gustbran's mother, so Esrola for Mahome's mother works well.

Oakfed might be just the Holy Fire or Wild Fire, so he might not have a mother, or he could have been born of Caladra, who is a fiery daughter of Lodril.

 

I think The Well of Daliath has Esrola or Ernalda as Mahomes mother ( Ernalda rings a bell ) I like Asrelia for Gustbran - what with the connection with mining and metals already mentioned it fits rather nicely.

[mfbrandi]

18 hours ago, soltakss said:

Personally, I like the idea that deities just spring from another with no other parent.

Splitting like amœbae (or amœbae as we used to conceive them, anyway), so we don’t know whether to say parent, child, or sibling?

[Joerg]

Just now, mfbrandi said:

Splitting like amœbae (or amœbae as we used to conceive them, anyway), so we don’t know whether to say parent, child, or sibling?

The Malkioni concept of devolution makes a clear distinction about generational weakening of the original rune, though it doesn't account for extra effort put in by one of the younger Srvuali to take back some of their siblings' powers.

[mfbrandi]

18 hours ago, Agentorange said:

I think The Well of Daliath has Esrola or Ernalda as Mahomes mother ( Ernalda rings a bell )

The Well has:

Quote

Amongst the Orlanthi, she is one of the traditional household goddesses who are the daughters and handmaidens of Ernalda — Mahome, who tends the hearth.

So you could say “not every handmaid has to be a daughter” or that they all are (to taste), I guess. And for those who don’t like either, there is always “what do the Orlanthi know, anyway?”

[Agentorange]

3 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

The Well has:

So you could say “not every handmaid has to be a daughter” or that they all are (to taste), I guess. And for those who don’t like either, there is always “what do the Orlanthi know, anyway?”

Frankly they're just a bunch of blue skinned thugs 😄