Malkioni sorcerers

[Godlearner]

In Rokari culture, and among other Malkioni with no inter cast mobility, what happens to zzaburi children who do not meet the minimum requirements to learn sorcery which is going to be more than half?

[radmonger]

Brithini zzaburi generally don't have children except as part of of an elaborate magical project. The resulting child will be considered a disappointment if they haven't mastered their first spell by age 5.

Other Malkioni could be counted as aspiring to that idea, but not getting there. The more spots there are open for non-sorcerors in the zzaburi caste (scribes, priests, holy fools) the lower the resources required for elaborate marriage, birthing and education rituals.

If i recall correctly,  the new Rokari in particular aggressively search out for individuals of partial zzaburi ancestry, which manifests itself in an an early aptitude for wizardry. Such an aptitude may even be taken as proof of zzaburi birth, despite the child's parents admitting nothing of such a thing.

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by radmonger

[Godlearner]

3 minutes ago, radmonger said:

Such an aptitude may even be taken as proof of zzaburi birth, despite the child's parents admitting nothing of such a thing.

So these can be considered as the "lost" zzaburi and are being returned to the caste. 

5 minutes ago, radmonger said:

non-sorcerors in the zzaburi caste (scribes, priests, holy fools)

Are you basically saying that there are two types of zzaburi, that is capable of wielding sorcery (high zzaburi) and those who can not (low zzaburi)?

[radmonger]

I'd doubt it is the kind of simple binary the rules might suggest. More that.some zzaburi are not going to be producing much of useful value by means of sorcery. They may be 'subsidised' to do it anyway, even if makes no economic sense. Or they may just do something else for a living. So long as that thing is not clearly violence, labouring or ruling they are not really breaking any caste rules.

[French Desperate WindChild]

1 hour ago, Godlearner said:

In Rokari culture, and among other Malkioni with no inter cast mobility, what happens to zzaburi children who do not meet the minimum requirements to learn sorcery which is going to be more than half?

don't remember where / who  (so is it "canon"... I don't know )said that the zzaburi are choosen among the other castes if they meet some requirement (INT, etc...) then I suppose if their children don't meet they "go back" to their original cast: Grandfather was a dronar, you are a dronar

[Godlearner]

1 hour ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

if their children don't meet they "go back" to their original cast: Grandfather was a dronar, you are a dronar

We are talking in societies were there is no caste mobility if your grandfather was a dronar, there is no chance you will be anything else

[radmonger]

guide to glorantha, p49.

Note that Rokari wizards are actually _supposed_ to be celibate, so there is no automatic inheritance of zzaburi status. I suspect this is a relatively recent societal reform precisely to prevent the issue that plagues some other Malkioni societes of there being large number of useless zzaburi ritually prevented from doing anything much useful.

[French Desperate WindChild]

14 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

We are talking in societies were there is no caste mobility if your grandfather was a dronar, there is no chance you will be anything else

No you don’t understand what I « remember » ( I may be wrong)

in these societies the zzabur cast is an exception: 

there is no mobility between the other castes (a farmer will never become a soldier or a noble)

but the zzaburi (adult) visit the other castes and test their children (6 yo if I remember)

If they consider them good candidates they take them and teach them.

if they pass the different tests they become zzaburi ( i imagine a kind of dalaï lama process)

 

Not because their blood but because their capacities .

that is what I remember 

Without doing something like that I m not sure that zzaburi may renew their efficient population.

now do zzaburi have sex and even children ?  I m not sure or it may depends on the sect but in all cases if they want to have a critical mass of good sorcerers and  preserve a good ratio between castes they must 

a) find a process to get enough zzaburi

b) find a process to « remove » those born in the caste (if there are) but not able to play their role

[French Desperate WindChild]

23 minutes ago, radmonger said:

guide to glorantha, p49.

Note that Rokari wizards are actually _supposed_ to be celibate, so there is no automatic inheritance of zzaburi status. I suspect this is a relatively recent societal reform precisely to prevent the issue that plagues some other Malkioni societes of there being large number of useless zzaburi ritually prevented from doing anything much useful.

Oh nice my memory is not so bad !

[Richard S.]

33 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

We are talking in societies were there is no caste mobility if your grandfather was a dronar, there is no chance you will be anything else

Rokari wizards will snatch up any child they find who meets their INT requirements, regardless of caste. They themselves are supposed to be celibate.

"In the Rokari sect of Malkionism, children with an INT
of 16 or higher may be selected by age 5 to join the zzaburi
caste and train as sorcerers. Training in the processes of logic
and emotion necessary to manipulate the Runes begins from
the age of 6 and continues until the child reaches age 13 and
becomes a novitiate zzaburi (an apprentice sorcerer)." RQG p.389

Edited January 13, 2023 by Richard S.

[Shiningbrow]

This might be considered heresy, but wouldn't they have found a sorcerous "Bless Pregnancy*" type spell, in which they can invest characteristics (obviously, INT) into a foetus? Thus, any birth from Zzaburi would always have the appropriate INT to be a sorcerer.

Selecting from other castes is still a possibility.

 

(* maybe actual physical sex is not required??)