Ingnew - Humakt's iron smith

[Karlak One-eye]

Hi folks - looking through the Prosaepedia I can see no sign of Ingnew. Is he no longer canonical or is there some other reason he is not mentioned? Asking because I have a Humakti character in our campaign, who is also the Temple smith.

[David Scott]

3 hours ago, Karlak One-eye said:

Ingnew

Inginew

Assuming you are referring to the online prosopaedia - Inginew Redson first appeared in the now deprecated Storm Tribe and then in Sartar Kingdom of Heroes. He was a son of Gustbran so is just a mask of Gustbran. Humakti smiths are likely Gustbran lay members who are on good terms with the local metalworking guild, or initiates. If you want to keep him as a subcult, it's straight forward to do, with Inginew = Gustbran. Inginew is the name of a lowly lowfire who fashions fancy weapons. Members have access to the heat metal spirit magic. If they want the metal enchantments, they'd have to join Gustbran (Gustbran initiates can learn enchantments).

[Jeff]

1 hour ago, Karlak One-eye said:

Hi folks - looking through the Prosaepedia I can see no sign of Ingnew. Is he no longer canonical or is there some other reason he is not mentioned? Asking because I have a Humakti character in our campaign, who is also the Temple smith.

Humakt does not have specialised smithing subcult, although dealing with iron is one of his secrets. 

[Erol of Backford]

So did Humakt simply put an apron on and do some smithing and Humakt made the Diamond Blade, Uz Cleaver, Mazta's Invisible Sword and the Wind Sword when he decided to hit the forge or is Ingnew his own cult separate from Humakt?

[David Scott]

7 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

So did Humakt simply put an apron on and do some smithing and Humakt made the Diamond Blade, Uz Cleaver, Mazta's Invisible Sword and the Wind Sword when he decided to hit the forge or is Ingnew his own cult separate from Humakt?

According to ancient texts (a 1980 letter that Greg to Different Worlds #6, page 137)), Inginew Bonesmithson was a mastercraftsman, and a subcult of the Sartarite Smith God. I'd suggest keep it simple. As Jeff said, Humakt does not have specialised smithing subcult. So keep it Gustbran.

I'd be happy with a smith who was a Gustbran initiate and lay member of Humakt, or vice-versa or even an initiate of both (like the Armourer on the Mandolorian)

[JRE]

Craft Bronze and Craft Iron are both Humakt Cult Skills and among the skills useful in becoming a Sword, so it is an intrinsic part of the Cult, unlike Orlanth, who has the Enchant Iron but no metallurgy by himself, as that is what Gustbran is for.

Taking Humakt's cutting off family, IMG he does not rely on them, doing all things important to the cult on their own, and of course that includes crafting and enchanting swords. I always have Humakti initiates at a forge as one of the ways to become one with their blade, by crafting one and understanding it.

And for those humakti that abandon their family and community for the sword, being able to maintain your armor and weapons is important. So more typical for wandering swords and mercenaries than swordthanes, as those still have the support of their community.

I do not like the current metal enchantment rules, where it is the object and not the metal what is enchanted, though it make sense for those flighty Wind Lords who just have someone else make their toys and then enchant them. 

[Shiningbrow]

On 6/7/2023 at 3:00 PM, JRE said:

Craft Bronze and Craft Iron are both Humakt Cult Skills and among the skills useful in becoming a Sword, so it is an intrinsic part of the Cult, unlike Orlanth, who has the Enchant Iron but no metallurgy by himself, as that is what Gustbran is for.

Taking Humakt's cutting off family, IMG he does not rely on them, doing all things important to the cult on their own, and of course that includes crafting and enchanting swords. I always have Humakti initiates at a forge as one of the ways to become one with their blade, by crafting one and understanding it.

And for those humakti that abandon their family and community for the sword, being able to maintain your armor and weapons is important. So more typical for wandering swords and mercenaries than swordthanes, as those still have the support of their community.

I do not like the current metal enchantment rules, where it is the object and not the metal what is enchanted, though it make sense for those flighty Wind Lords who just have someone else make their toys and then enchant them. 

While that sounds good in theory, in practice it sort of lacks sense for the black/Iron smithing.

Certainly, for the first few years of a Humakti's life, they should learn and develop their redsmithing skills, but I doubt that they' also pick up the iron-smithing skills around the same time - that's really only likely to start after they become a Sword - and at a very rough guess, from around 25-27 years old (unless exceptional). And that's a rather old Humakti (given how often they're in combat).

So, starting iron-smithing from becoming a Sword isn't likely to make one very competent.

And therefore, it makes more sense to have a dedicated ironsmith for the local cult, rather than expect everyone to do their own.

[Erol of Backford]

On 6/8/2023 at 7:42 AM, Shiningbrow said:

So, starting iron-smithing from becoming a Sword isn't likely to make one very competent.

Start being a smith apprentice and hone skills for several years while rising as a Humakti... we have played several campaigns where one of the PC's was an apprentice of sorts and they went to assist smiths in places they traveled to but were not always welcome of course...

[Squaredeal Sten]

On 6/8/2023 at 2:42 PM, Shiningbrow said:

While that sounds good in theory, in practice it sort of lacks sense for the black/Iron smithing.

Certainly, for the first few years of a Humakti's life, they should learn and develop their redsmithing skills, but I doubt that they' also pick up the iron-smithing skills around the same time - that's really only likely to start after they become a Sword - and at a very rough guess, from around 25-27 years old (unless exceptional). And that's a rather old Humakti (given how often they're in combat).

So, starting iron-smithing from becoming a Sword isn't likely to make one very competent.

And therefore, it makes more sense to have a dedicated ironsmith for the local cult, rather than expect everyone to do their own.

However might it be possible to learn blacksmithing as Humakt cult lore even with minimal practical exercise?  Start at 5% after the first classes, maybe these consist of:  watch a smitthng job done. Pump the bellows?  Filing the edge should be similar for bronze and iron.  Watch a qualified Smith temper, get the lecture on what color it glows?

Edited June 10, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
Spelling / typing

[JRE]

I see Humakti initiates as mainly of two kinds. Professional soldiers, who I agree have little interest or opportunity to do ironsmithing, just doing their tithes and learning the magic that helps them in combat. But you also have the fanatics, those who already know they are walking the path of Humakt. Whose whole life is bent to become a Sword of Humakt. And iron is the metal of death. They are those that devote the time, and even spend extra if they can. They are the ones that take those looted Lunar scimitars and reforge them as swords, even if they cannot enchant them yet and will not be allowed to use them. Because when they become Swords they will no longer have much time for this. So all temples will have a smithy, even if it is only for reforging captured weapons, repairing weapons and armor and crafting new ones for the Swords. 

Just looking at the Sword requirements, IMG almost all Humakti temples will have one or several initiates that have chosen the Smith path for Sword status. And they are probably the ones most likely, barring poor POW rolls, to actually make it. Once they are Swords I am sure they will be welcome in most temples, as it benefits the whole temple having a skilled smith. 

What is more likely to be a skilled armorsmith and weaponsmith? A Humakti temple smith serving two hundred professional warriors, or a clan smith, servicing 20 or 30 full time warriors and three hundred amateurs?

A Gustbran smith in Jonstown may well be an iron master, but most will not, and outside such a big town most smiths will have very limited experience with iron. Each Humakti temple (but almost no shrine) will have several iron panoplies, with the required maintenance, and will probably be one of the first places anyone willing to sell iron items will stop.

It is unwise to extrapolate the world from the rules, but among the Orlanthi, most cults have Enchant Iron, but only, as far as I know, only Humakt has Craft Iron or Bronze. We know from the advances that Gustbran will have the metal Crafts, but that still leaves Humakt as the most likely to have Iron to train with,  but that may change with the Storm and Earth cult books.