Troll Sacred Time?

[Martin]

Do Trolls have Sacred Time rituals? I wonder what they do in these if they celebrate it...

[Joerg]

At a guess, even broos, vampires, Vadeli and antigod races will have sacred time rites.

There is a Kyger Litor quest depicted in that rather trollish relief style somewhere in Trollpak, showing a formative quest of KL. That would be a good candidate for uz sacred time rites.

[JRE]

I believe the plentiful ritual and heroquests in Sacred Time mean that even if it is only defensively, most peoples will have their own rites and communal heroquests in that period. 

IMG most long duration magics stop working during the Sacred Time, which is why everybody is busy renewing them. Even long duration sorceries tend to fail in the high magical background, unless they have at least one full year remaining duration.

That reinforces the global character of the event, though it may just be the days the Mostali take their holidays and the rest of Glorantha need to step up to keep the universe going.

[AndrewTBP]

Why would the Uz use the Theyalan calendar at all? The AA folks might know it to coordinate caravans, but why would KL folks care? 

[mfbrandi]

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

At a guess, even broos, vampires, Vadeli and antigod races will have sacred time rites.

And if the Uz still see themselves as an Underworld people, they might join in: this is the time of year when Yelm starts to spend more of the day above ground.

But — for the sake of an alternative point of view — perhaps “Sacred Time is the best time” is a Lichtbringerlich way of looking at the world — and Kyger Litor isn’t their friend. “Everybody agrees.” But the Orlanthi can’t count — “0.81, 0.82, 0.83, 0.84, 1.”

Sacred Time marks the renewal of the world, where that is understood as:

• life
  “one must descend into death and be reborn”
• time
• dawn
  spring
  return of the Sun
• the integration of entropy (Chaos) into the world
  the binding of Chaos to the world (inside) — but Chaos wants to be free (outside)
• compromise
  balance

Members of the awkward squad might object on any of these grounds, but not necessarily all, and not necessarily the same subset for each grumbling diehard. For example:

• Vampires might object that they were never quite dead and are certainly not now alive again.
  They reject the cycle of death and rebirth, surely, even if some say that they parody it.
• Hardcore death cultists might object to cyclical time and new life, too.
  The road to death is straight — and strait — and there is no permissible return.
  “It shouldn’t be allowed — they could have spent that money hanging people. It’s an outrage!”
• Stasis cults might protest that time and entropy admit change into the world.
  “And besides, the world is not renewed; it is worse every year.”
  Yes, they are all a bit cracked. And they are not happy about that, either.
• Hardcore apocalypse hounds don’t want the world renewed.
  “Stop fixing the world! Can’t you see I am trying to break it once and for all?”
• Yelmalio: “I will not die and be reborn. I will stay lit if it is all the same to you.”
  Though maybe he will light a candle for Bartleby at Sacred Time. He is a perverse god … but Emily loved him.
• “This is not the right point in the cycle to celebrate renewal. The return of the horrible scorchy thing in the sky? Are you mad?”

If humans as diurnal creatures are fond of celebrating winter solstice (“it gets better/lighter from here”) and spring equinox (“from here on, the light is dominant”), mightn’t cults of surface darkness celebrate summer solstice (“it gets better/darker from here”) and autumn equinox (“from here on, the dark is dominant”).

And maybe many darkness cults think that deepest Dark Season is the best time to heroquest?

So Lightbringers, quasi-Lightbringers (7M), and cults of illumination (Yelm, Nysalor) think Sacred Time is … sacred. But expect dissenters.

Edited June 26, 2023 by mfbrandi
whitespace/formatting

[JRE]

My point is that IMG the First age big councils did their big magics in the Sacred Time, and by pure magical firepower they forced other cultures in contact with them to do the same or be overwhelmed. That spread with the God Learners so it became the new magical reality. It will have different names and different rationales, but I am happy with all of Glorantha doing big magics at that point in time. I have most large magics ending at the beginning of the Sacred Time so even if you disagree with its justification, you still have to do rituals and quests, or your world is not remade.

Of course these same rituals and quests are why the world has not really changed much in almost two millennia, and most events are cyclical. Maybe it would be better if conservatism was not built in yearly to keep things the same, but then people will call me an illuminate.

Theyalans will tell you it commemorates the Great Compromise and the first Dawn, but I think that time is lost, and it really marks the moment when the Sun moved again after the Sunstop.

Edited June 26, 2023 by JRE

[Bohemond]

All Gloranthan peoples observe the Sacred Time in some manner, because it is a moment when the cosmic order might collapse and therefore needs to be reinforced with rituals that reaffirm the cosmic order and strengthen the gods in their constant struggle during the Godtime. So even if they don't organize their calendar the way the Theyalans do, their calendar has a two week period that happens to coincide with the human Sacred Time. 

Probably the first day celebrates Subere, the Dehori, and the most ancient ancestors who first emerged out of the primal darkness. 

I imagine that Gorakiki's rituals and those that honor the mothers of the various insect species happen early in this period. 

Yelm's arrival is certainly remembered, though not celebrated. He invades, they fight him and lose. 

Argan Agrar and Xentha are honored for their leading the trolls up to the surface world and establishing a place for them there. This would be a very somber ritual, because it marks the trolls exile from Wonderhome and thus probably has some element of lament in it (perhaps a two-day ritual--on the first day they must prepare to leave Wonderhome and on the second day they commemorate establishing their specific community as one of the deeds of Argan Argar). (Part of me is picturing this as a sort of trollish version of the Passover...) AA's defeat of Lodril is probably also commemorated.

Kygor Litor's rituals would probably involve something honoring her role as the Great Mother. Her defeat of Thed would be a major ceremony as well (re-enacted with a broo or other chaotic creature)

Zorak Zoran's rituals would reenact some of his most important conflicts, such as his defeat of Yelmalio at the Hill of Gold. Xiola Umbar's ceremonies commemorate one of her great healings or midwifery events. Her ceremonies may take place at the same time or right after ZZ's rituals (since they are twins).

The last day probably commemorates whatever the trollish version of the fight with the Devil in the Underworld looks like--devouring pieces of him, honoring Arachne Solara for spinning the web that holds Time together. 

Looking at this, I can imagine that the first week is mostly peaceful and celebratory, honoring the troll ancestors and the primary forces and darkness. I picture lots of drumming and dancing, interacting with the ancestors and darkness spirits. At the end of that week, Yelm arrives. The second week is all about the events of the Lesser and Greater Darkness (or however the trolls term those period). These rituals are more about violence, conflict, suffering, and the triumph that destroyed the Devil and secured the safety of the cosmos. 

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Bohemond said:

Yelm's arrival is certainly remembered, though not celebrated. He invades, they fight him and lose. 

Clearly Fireday of the First Week. The subsequent Wildday would be an absolutely terrifying day with fire demons burning indiscriminately. I would guess this is also the day that Nysalor wounds KL/Korasting.

1 hour ago, Bohemond said:

Argan Agrar and Xentha are honored for their leading the trolls up to the surface world and establishing a place for them there. This would be a very somber ritual, because it marks the trolls exile from Wonderhome and thus probably has some element of lament in it (perhaps a two-day ritual

Godsday of the First Week and Freezeday of the Second Week - the latter seems natural when Darkness claims its place in the Surface World (and in the Sky with Xentha cloaking out the stars).

The subsequent days mark victories over Water (w. Himile's aid), Earth (becoming Husband-Protector), and Storm (the battles of Gore and Gash possibly). On the second Fireday, ZZ defeats Yelmalio at the Hill of Gold and takes Fire for himself. Possibly Wildday marks KL's defeat of Thed. The Great Compromise is achieved on second Godsday with Darkness assured its place in the world once again.