Need help to work out how to make races and species

[PauliusTheMad]

10 hours ago, soltakss said:

So, assuming the one in the middle is human, the one on the left is Great Troll sized in Glorantha, so I'd go with SIZ and STR 4D6+12. If you want average health stick with CON 3D6, if tougher than usual use CON 2D6+6, or if mega tough 1D6+12 or 3D6+6. It looks clumsy, so maybe 2D6. Int of 2D6+6 for humanlike intelligence, or 3D6 for humanish range but less smart on average.

The one on the left looks humanlike in SIZ and STR, if they are more agile than humans make DEX 2D6+6, same thing with CON and INT as above.

You could use different dice, Stormbringer used 2D8 for SIZ, for example. I think it adds complexity but it should work OK. I am so used to variants of 3D6 that I think in those terms.

With different dice ya, your example of 3d6 for less intelligent on average but capable of being as smart as humans makes me think that it would also be fitting to try perhaps 2d8+2 

My first draft for em then would be something like this, based on the feedback: 

Drork for now as their name (Not so smart conflation of their inspiration of dryads/ent wifes and orcs written in my native language when I was first toying with an idea with visual inspirations partially inspired by the quite famous "space orcs" of certain british sci-fi universe) 

STR - 4d6+10
Con - 3d6
SIZ - 4d6+10 

INT - 2d8+2
POW - 2d6+3
DEX - 2d6
APP - 1d6
EDU - 3d6 (As they are leftovers of an invasion so their "education" is a bit weak?)

They are plant based creatures, but I felt it's not fitting for em to be able to survive without eating as they are quite active, though I toyed with somewhat roleplay ability of them going dormant for long periods of time by rotting themselves and sorta being innert like a tree. 
Not sure if there would be any fitting traits? Maybe something akin to tough bark skin to increase armour by 1? 

Their flaw at least one I had written down had been: Need to be active at all times, as periods of few days of doing nothing to stimulate them leads them to going slightly mad (which I guess could work with mechanic of sanity? Sanity tests if left non-innert with nothing to stimulate them such as fight, tinker, talk, etc?)

 

Purovians - Humans for the most part, so these are easy, just mostly normal human profile: 

STR - 3d6
Con - 3d6
SIZ - 2d6+6

INT - 2d6+6
POW - 3d6
DEX - 3d6
APP - 3d6
EDU - 2d6+6

Granted, some would be survivors of fairly weird case of "bloody world war that worked like ritual of magical climate shift" thus was half contemplating doing something like - you get to do sanity test or gain some trauma from being veteran of that war but it leaves you with one minor magical power, but this is probably bad idea.

Disposer - Sorta alien that just appeared at random, these people being where they always been perhaps (in truth they are just sorta people off another world with their own little story), but ya, lizard like some, others more human, so perhaps these should have few limitations on professions for sure (their original draft was: pile of artists, flesh shapers, mad doctors, schoolars and sorcourers stuffed on an island taking care of the dead of slaver island chain where nothing rots propertly, so they got mad artists and scientists feel to them). 

STR - 2d8
Con - 2d8 
SIZ - 2d8+2

INT - 2d4+10
POW - 3d6
DEX - 3d6
APP - 3d6
EDU - 2d6+7 (This covers their weird nature of being sorta band of mad scientists and schoolars)

 

Edited April 11 by PauliusTheMad

[RedCrestedSlayer]

Hey all

This is my first time posting in the forum, and I'm curious about building custom creatures & races in BRP. I've got some experience DMing and playing, including in both DND and Call of Cthulhu, and I've familiarised myself with how the BRP system works from a theoretical level.

But I am wondering if there's a set method or easy way to build creatures from scratch. For example, I've been thinking on running a Warhammer Fantasy-themed game, and although the BRP creature list contains stuff like Orcs it doesn't contain goblins.

Say I know the 'narrative' aspects of a creature, like its height compared to a human, intellect/sapience and other basics, is there a good method for translating that into a stat-line? Or would it be just taking examples like for halflings and tweaking it to fit another being?

Off the back of that, what do you usually consider for making a creature feel 'different' and unique?

[Joerg]

11 hours ago, RedCrestedSlayer said:

Hey all

This is my first time posting in the forum, and I'm curious about building custom creatures & races in BRP. I've got some experience DMing and playing, including in both DND and Call of Cthulhu, and I've familiarised myself with how the BRP system works from a theoretical level.

But I am wondering if there's a set method or easy way to build creatures from scratch. For example, I've been thinking on running a Warhammer Fantasy-themed game, and although the BRP creature list contains stuff like Orcs it doesn't contain goblins.

Depending on your definition frame of goblins (e.g. outside of the AD&D frame where there seems to be an evolution of goblinoids) you may wish to adjust the characteristics of goblins.

The BRP stats of orcs are derived from the stats for elves undergoing a re-design at the will of Morgoth (or some other demon lord relevant to your setting). That explains their super-human dexterity.

Goblins are not known for super-human stats, except possibly fertility. They are stunted humanoids - which makes the RuneQuest stats for trollkin a good starting point.

11 hours ago, RedCrestedSlayer said:

Say I know the 'narrative' aspects of a creature, like its height compared to a human, intellect/sapience and other basics, is there a good method for translating that into a stat-line? Or would it be just taking examples like for halflings and tweaking it to fit another being?

The easy way is to take the closest example you find, take off its special abilities (like e.g. halfling toughness), and apply. In most settings the human stats are the default.

The trolls in RuneQuest are a good case study on how to modify basic human stats to produce variations in various terms, including the stunted trollkin, the huge but dumb great trolls and the demigod mistress race trolls. For less humanoid creatures, the dragonewts offer such a range of variations. Rather than human 3D6 (or 2D6+6), superhuman stats could add a D6 or two, or add a +3 or +6 (or several) to adjust for more powerful entities. On the lower end, you might substract a die, or maybe replace it by a straight +2 or +3 if that is too much of a change.

12 hours ago, RedCrestedSlayer said:

Off the back of that, what do you usually consider for making a creature feel 'different' and unique?

Not so much the ways a creature's stats are rolled up, but its memorable specialities. Adaptation to its habitat (which usually is somewhat hostile to humans) is a major factor. Immunity to certain toxins or physical challenges of its environment easily tips the balance towards the native creature. Weaknesses resulting from such adaptation may equalize this a bit. Swamp critters usually don't cope well with dry heat or with sub-zero temperatures.

Creature behavior and tactics may make them different and even unique. Different modes of communication like olfactory messages or color changes may make communication harder and possibly memorable.

Some of the most memorable critters include the Hokas by Pouk Anderson and Gordon Dickson , about man-sized teddy-bears which are fascinated by all things human, willing to imitate (selected aspects of) human culture and ideas to the extreme. They have a bear-like body plan, are furred and a little stronger than your average human, and otherwise not very different.

[Atgxtg]

15 hours ago, RedCrestedSlayer said:

Hey all

This is my first time posting in the forum, and I'm curious about building custom creatures & races in BRP. I've got some experience DMing and playing, including in both DND and Call of Cthulhu, and I've familiarised myself with how the BRP system works from a theoretical level.

But I am wondering if there's a set method or easy way to build creatures from scratch. For example, I've been thinking on running a Warhammer Fantasy-themed game, and although the BRP creature list contains stuff like Orcs it doesn't contain goblins.

Kinda. The easiest way to is use an existing race or creature and maybe shift a couple of points around. 

For instance Goblins are similar to Orcs (possibly the same depending on which source you use) so you could start with Orc stats and reduce STR and SIZ a little and maybe boost DEX a little.

 

15 hours ago, RedCrestedSlayer said:

Say I know the 'narrative' aspects of a creature, like its height compared to a human, intellect/sapience and other basics, is there a good method for translating that into a stat-line? Or would it be just taking examples like for halflings and tweaking it to fit another being?

There is the cube-square law. It's what scientists use to help estimate the weight of a creature. 

The law points out that if you increase/decrease the size of a object/creature proportionally, it's surface area (and muscle area, i.e. Strength) will be affected by the square of that change, and it's mass/weight by the cube of that change. 

That measn that if you double the height/width/depth of a object/creature you will multiply it's surface area (Strength) by four and it's weight and mass by eight.

 

Now in BRP game therms that means that if you double the height you add 16 points of STR and 24 points of SIZ. So you can use that to scale up/down existing creature to get reasonable new ones. So for every 3 point difference if SIZ there would be a corresponding 2 point difference in STR.

 

For instance if you wanted to make a goblin that was 3/4th the weight of an Orc:

Per p. 229 of the UGE an ORC is SIZ 2D6+2 (9) for an average mass of 55kg, so we'd want about 40 kg for our Goblin or about SIZ 5-6 ish. If we say SIZ 6 and give it a SIZ of 2D4+1 (6). It lost 3 points of SIZ so it should lose about 2 points of STR. Orcs nave a STR of 4D6 (14) so we want about 12 STR for our Goblins. Let's say we  go with 4D4+2 (12). Now there are other options (2D8+3, 3D6+1, 2D6+5), but I just picked 4D4+2.  Now I might want to give them a little more DEX, but I decide against it.

So there is a goblin writeup STR 4D4+2 (12), SIZ 2D6+2 (9). And that is one way to do it. But there are others.

I could have just used the 'Lesser orc" stats (STR 3D6, SIZ 2D6) from p. 229 for goblins. They wouldn't have been all that different. A point weaker but a point bigger. 

15 hours ago, RedCrestedSlayer said:

Off the back of that, what do you usually consider for making a creature feel 'different' and unique?

If's it's intelligent, personality culture and habits. If's it's a creature, appearance, diet (carnivore, herbivore, omnivore), temperament (aggressive, timid, docile)  and sociability (is it a loner, a pack animal, a herd animal, etc.). Existing creatures are a good starting point. For instance, let's say that I wanted to make a arctic predator similar to a saber tooth tiger, but polar bear sized, and acting more like a wolf. 

• I'd start with Tiger, or better yet Lion stats (because the Smilodon or "saber-toothed tiger" was  closer to a lion) so in UGE STR 2D6+2 and SIZ 3D6+6.
• To make it bear sized I'd increase SIZ to 3D6+10, and add another point of STR for 2D6+3.
• I'd up it's armour to 3 points, like the bear.
• To account for the larger fangs, I'd increase the bite damage die from 1D10 for 2D6  or maybe even 2D8.
• I'd have it be a pack animal like the wolf, with a strong pack hierarchy and communal raising of cubs.
• Since I've decided on it being a carnivore predator, I'd need to decide if it is an ambush predator (like a cat) or if it it a chaser (like a wolf), and adjust it's skills based on it's hunting strategy. I'd probably go chaser so skills closer to wolf that lion.
• Then I'd consider adding some details to make the creature unique. Maybe it has cammo colored fur? Or maybe it sees in the infra-red band, and finds prey by picking up their heat signatures?  It kinda depends on if it is a fantasy creature or sci-fi one. 
• OH, and I consider just how I wanted to use the creature in a adventure or campaign. There isn't much point in creating something the PCs will never interact with or have to worry about in some way. 

 

[soltakss]

17 hours ago, RedCrestedSlayer said:

But I am wondering if there's a set method or easy way to build creatures from scratch.

As Atgxtg said, take existing things and tweak the characteristics. That's the easiest way to do it.

17 hours ago, RedCrestedSlayer said:

Off the back of that, what do you usually consider for making a creature feel 'different' and unique?

If it is an unintelligent creature, then give it different attacks, skills, and maybe a shape.

Bear in mind that sometimes changes aren't that interesting. A lion, tiger, jaguar and leopard are basically the same creature, stats-wise, with a few tweaks in SIZ and STR, for example. 

For intelligent creatures, I go for differences in cultures and skills. Some might have tweaked stats, more or less intelligent, healthier or more sickly, stronger or weaker, more dextrous or clumsier, and so on, than existing creatures. Think of it like the Star Trek setting, Vulcans and Romulans are effective the same race, stats-wise, but with vastly different cultures and skills.

[Atgxtg]

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

Bear in mind that sometimes changes aren't that interesting. A lion, tiger, jaguar and leopard are basically the same creature, stats-wise, with a few tweaks in SIZ and STR, for example. 

Good point. Plus even if they are different they will all seem the same to a PC whose been pounced on. Only GMs see the actual game stats, players judge creatures (and NPCs) by what the GM tells or shows them. 

 

[RedCrestedSlayer]

On 4/14/2024 at 4:38 PM, Atgxtg said:

Now in BRP game terms that means that if you double the height you add 16 points of STR and 24 points of SIZ. So you can use that to scale up/down existing creature to get reasonable new ones. So for every 3 point difference if SIZ there would be a corresponding 2 point difference in STR.

 

For instance if you wanted to make a goblin that was 3/4th the weight of an Orc:

Per p. 229 of the UGE an ORC is SIZ 2D6+2 (9) for an average mass of 55kg, so we'd want about 40 kg for our Goblin or about SIZ 5-6 ish. If we say SIZ 6 and give it a SIZ of 2D4+1 (6). It lost 3 points of SIZ so it should lose about 2 points of STR. Orcs nave a STR of 4D6 (14) so we want about 12 STR for our Goblins. Let's say we  go with 4D4+2 (12). Now there are other options (2D8+3, 3D6+1, 2D6+5), but I just picked 4D4+2.  Now I might want to give them a little more DEX, but I decide against it.

So there is a goblin writeup STR 4D4+2 (12), SIZ 2D6+2 (9). And that is one way to do it. But there are others.

I could have just used the 'Lesser orc" stats (STR 3D6, SIZ 2D6) from p. 229 for goblins. They wouldn't have been all that different. A point weaker but a point bigger. 

 

Got it, so, my main question is if I wanted to start building from the ground up is that a way to do it for 'realistic' stats and then change it from there if these creatures don't conform to normal laws? i.e. if I make a SIZ 4 creature, they'd have something like STR 8 as an average?

[Joerg]

10 minutes ago, RedCrestedSlayer said:

Got it, so, my main question is if I wanted to start building from the ground up is that a way to do it for 'realistic' stats and then change it from there if these creatures don't conform to normal laws? i.e. if I make a SIZ 4 creature, they'd have something like STR 8 as an average?

Other that a creature should have at least a chance at lifting itself, you can assign much higher values independent of size. The typical giant ant retains not quite the proportional lifting capacity of an ordinary sized one, but will still lift itself and quite a load not because of physics but because of our expectations when encountering such a beast, despite the fact that its biology would not allow such a creature in current Earth's atmosphere at all.

It takes only four of Terry Pratchett's Mac Nac Feegles to lift a cow (each one at one hoof) and carry it away. Four ordinary humans would have a hard time even with a rather small modern cow. That would give these SIZ1 creatures a strength of around 2D6+6 or better.

[Atgxtg]

8 hours ago, RedCrestedSlayer said:

Got it, so, my main question is if I wanted to start building from the ground up is that a way to do it for 'realistic' stats and then change it from there if these creatures don't conform to normal laws? i.e. if I make a SIZ 4 creature, they'd have something like STR 8 as an average?

Yeah, most creature will have an average STR  within 5-8 points of their SIZ- basically what Joerg just said about having a chance to lift itself. Real world creatures probably wont vary by more than 16-20 points. Now you can do whatever you want to with the writups, but you are also going to need to account for anything weird. For instance if you modify a fruit fly to have STR 50 you'll have to explain why they aren't snapping people in half, or maybe they are snapping people in half. They'd probably need a lot of calories for those muscles too. Those muscles would probably add a lot of mass (well a lot for a fly) so they probably would have to flap like a humming bird to fly.

Just what you can get away with, depends on how well you can justify things, and as Jeorg noted above, some of that depends on if you are doing a realistic or fantasy setting.  It helps if you know a little about science, animal behavior and such (a 25 ton dragon is probably going to need to eat something, probably something big or several somethings), but really, you can do just about anything, assuming you can make people believe it. 

Experiment with some existing species to see how it works out. Take a wolf, add some STR and SIZ,  give it 4 point scales and you got a decent critter for an alien planet or fantasy world. Take a cat and give it teleport, and it probably okay for the fantasy world, but needs a bit more justification for a sci-fi setting (it would probably need to be intelligent and/or have mental powers). 

 

Generally speaking minor changes are easy to pull off (no one will probably even notice a SIZ 4 critter with 8 STR) but more drastic changes will be more obvious and might require more/better justification (SIZ 4 creature with 16 STR) or downright impossible to get players to buy into (without laughing). Like that STR 50 fruit fly. Magic helps a lot here.

 

 

[Atgxtg]

Oh, I just stumbled across something on my hard drive that might help. Way back in the early days of the BGB a couple of us got together to do a dinosaur book. While the project got stalled due to other things (a move and change of jobs), I did make up a spreadsheet for it to help scale up and modify creatures. I called it the critter Fitter!. You plugged in a existing creature and then scaled it to the size you wanted and it would scale mass attributes, natural weapons, other  game stats, and the dice required (you could customize the dice used, say from D6s to D8s for Chaos creatures). You could adjust armor based on a multiple of the damage bonus. It was a bit crude, but it worked, and did most of the "heavy lifting". It looked like this:

 

I could clean it up a little and make it available if it would help.

 

Edited April 20 by Atgxtg

[PauliusTheMad]

On 4/20/2024 at 6:34 PM, Atgxtg said:

Oh, I just stumbled across something on my hard drive that might help. Way back in the early days of the BGB a couple of us got together to do a dinosaur book. While the project got stalled due to other things (a move and change of jobs), I did make up a spreadsheet for it to help scale up and modify creatures. I called it the critter Fitter!. You plugged in a existing creature and then scaled it to the size you wanted and it would scale mass attributes, natural weapons, other  game stats, and the dice required (you could customize the dice used, say from D6s to D8s for Chaos creatures). You could adjust armor based on a multiple of the damage bonus. It was a bit crude, but it worked, and did most of the "heavy lifting". It looked like this:

 

I could clean it up a little and make it available if it would help.

 

That sounds and looks like a mighty useful tool indeed!

[Atgxtg]

3 hours ago, PauliusTheMad said:

That sounds and looks like a mighty useful tool indeed!

Maybe. The original idea was to allow me to stat up a lot of things at one go by finding a similar creature and then plugging in the difference in size. I use the same approach for statting up lots of vehicles and weapons too. But you do have to go over the final results to look for problems. A Woolly Mammoth isn't exactly the same as a scaled up Elephant, but a scaled up Elephant is a good start. And using the cube-sqaure law and the creatures mass will get you in the right ballpark. 

 

We were certainly getting lots of dinosaur stats, including stats for several species of allosaurus. It's a pity we didn't finish the book.  Here's a excerpt.

Allosaurus (Epanterias) amplexus

Average Length: 12 m

Average Weight: 2 tonnes

Diet: Carnivore

Period Extant: Late Jurassic

Characteristic	Roll	Average
STR	3D6+45	55-56
CON	3D6+28	38-39
SIZ	3D6+40	50-51
INT	3	3
POW	3D6+2	12-13
DEX	3D6+6	16-17

 

Move: 8

Hit Points: 45

Damage Bonus: +6D6

Fatigue: 94

Armor: 12 points thick scales

Attacks:

Weapon	SR	Attack%	Damage
Bite	5	65	2D6+6D6
Claw	8	55	1D8+6D6
Kick	8	55	2D6+6D6

Notes:

Skills: Skill 1, Skill 2 etc etc

Optional Statistics

Location	D20		AP/HP
	Missile	Melee
Tail	01-02	01-02	12/15
R. Leg	03-05	03-05	12/15
L. Leg	06-08	06-08	12/15
Abdomen	09-11	09-11	12/18
Chest	12-15	12-15	12/18
R. Claw	16	16	12/12
L. Claw	17	17	12/12
Head	18-20	18-20	12/15

 

Allosaurus europaeus?

Average Length: 7 m

Average Weight: 1000 kg

Habitat: Large, seasonally dry island with open woodlands.

Diet: Carnivore

Period Extant: Late Jurassic

 

Characteristic	Roll	Average
STR	3D6+40	50-51
CON	3D6+23	33-34
SIZ	3D6+32	42-43
INT	3	3
POW	3D6+1	11-12
DEX	3D6+7	17-18

 

Move: 9

Hit Points: 38

Damage Bonus: +5D6

Fatigue: 84

Armor: 10 points thick scales

Attacks:

Weapon	SR	Attack%	Damage
Bite	5	60	2D6+5D6
Claw	8	50	1D6+5D6
Kick	8	50	1D10+5D6

 

Notes: At this time the European archipelago was very close to North America, and whether this is distinct from all known Morrison Allosaurus species is not certain.

Skills: Skill 1, Skill 2 etc etc

Optional Statistics

Location	D20		AP/HP
	Missile	Melee
Tail	01-02	01-02	10/13
R. Leg	03-05	03-05	10/13
L. Leg	06-08	06-08	10/13
Abdomen	09-11	09-11	10/16
Chest	12-15	12-15	10/16
R. Claw	16	16	10/10
L. Claw	17	17	10/10
Head	18-20	18-20	10/13

 

Allosaurus fragilis

Average Length: 8.5 m

Average Weight: 1.7 tonnes

Habitat: Short wet season, otherwise semiarid with open

floodplain prairies and riverine forests.

Diet: Carnivore

Period Extant: Late Jurassic

 

Characteristic	Roll	Average
STR	3D6+44	54-55
CON	3D6+27	37-38
SIZ	3D6+38	48-49
INT	3	3
POW	3D6+2	12-13
DEX	3D6+6	16-17

 

Move: 9

Hit Points: 44

Damage Bonus: +5D6

Fatigue: 92

Armor: 10 points thick scales

Attacks:

Weapon	SR	Attack%	Damage
Bite	5	65	2D6+5D6
Claw	8	55	1D8+5D6
Kick	8	55	2D6+5D6

 

Notes: The remains the genus Allosaurus and its species

are based on are not adequate, so taxonomic designations

are not certain. All Morrison Allosaurus have usually been

lumped into this species, but there is considerable

diversity among the specimens, especially in the

length/height ratio of the skull, and it is improbable that

any one species spanned the 7 million years or more of

the Morrison. A lower Morrison skull and skeleton may

be a juvenile A. fragilis

Skills: Skill 1, Skill 2 etc etc

Optional Statistics

Location	D20		AP/HP
	Missile	Melee
Tail	01-02	01-02	10/15
R. Leg	03-05	03-05	10/15
L. Leg	06-08	06-08	10/15
Abdomen	09-11	09-11	10/18
Chest	12-15	12-15	10/18
R. Claw	16	16	10/12
L. Claw	17	17	10/12
Head	18-20	18-20	10/15

 

Allosaurus unnamed species

Average Length: 8.5 m

Average Weight: 1.7 tonnes

Habitat: Short wet season, otherwise semiarid with open

floodplain prairies and riverine forests.

Diet: Carnivore

Period Extant: Late Jurassic

 

Characteristic	Roll	Average
STR	3D6+44	54-55
CON	3D6+27	37-38
SIZ	3D6+38	48-49
INT	3	3
POW	3D6+2	12-13
DEX	3D6+6	16-17

 

Move: 9

Hit Points: 44

Damage Bonus: +5D6

Fatigue: 92

Armor: 10 points thick scales

Attacks:

Weapon	SR	Attack%	Damage
Bite	5	65	2D6+5D6
Claw	8	55	1D8+5D6
Kick	8	55	2D6+5D6

 

Notes: This has been placed in A. atrox, which is based

on inadequate remains. By far the most common

theropod in the Morrison, some Allosaurus species shared

their habitats with Ceratosaurus and Torvosaurus. There

may be more than one Allosaurus species in the middle

Morrison. The classic nontyrannosaur large theropod.

Skills: Skill 1, Skill 2 etc etc

Optional Statistics

Location	D20		AP/HP
	Missile	Melee
Tail	01-02	01-02	10/15
R. Leg	03-05	03-05	10/15
L. Leg	06-08	06-08	10/15
Abdomen	09-11	09-11	10/18
Chest	12-15	12-15	10/18
R. Claw	16	16	10/12
L. Claw	17	17	10/12
Head	18-20	18-20	10/15

 

 

 

 

 

 PM me an email address and I'll send you the spreadsheet and you can try it out for yourself. If it proves useful I might just upload the sheet to the forums.