D100 No Sanity for Magic

[Archivist]

I just noticed that in the D100 system, while it has Sanity, you can cast spells all day without it affecting your Sanity. I'd like to have spellcasting, particularly more harmful and significant spells, wear away at sanity. Is there a rule I can steal from somewhere or you can recommend so I can port it?

[Sean_RDP]

I don't think you need a complex rule. Each MP of say Sorcery or equivalent you use causes 1 SAN loss. At the end of the session roll 1d6 for each 6 SAN lost to see how much you gain back.  There may also be healing of a high level or soul binding spells that mitigate or return SAN or you can pass it off to someone else, but that makes it even more complex. Simple is better.

[Archivist]

You are my new hero!

[SDLeary]

1 hour ago, Archivist said:

I just noticed that in the D100 system, while it has Sanity, you can cast spells all day without it affecting your Sanity. I'd like to have spellcasting, particularly more harmful and significant spells, wear away at sanity. Is there a rule I can steal from somewhere or you can recommend so I can port it?

Dispense with Power Point/Magic Points and simply use the Sanity track; spells cost San Points.

This means that over time the magician will become more mentally tired, and thus more subject to shock from monsters and others vectors. If you are using spell skills, or spells as skills, a fumble in casting automatically causes a San check, or a fight/flight shock test (think Unknown Armies), or some other mental issue that seems appropriate. 

SDLeary

[Baulderstone]

8 minutes ago, SDLeary said:

Dispense with Power Point/Magic Points and simply use the Sanity track; spells cost San Points.

This means that over time the magician will become more mentally tired, and thus more subject to shock from monsters and others vectors. If you are using spell skills, or spells as skills, a fumble in casting automatically causes a San check, or a fight/flight shock test (think Unknown Armies), or some other mental issue that seems appropriate. 

SDLeary

Having Sanity be the sole cost for magic was the way it was done in CoC D20. The only real issue with it is that CoC NPC sorcerers often have 0 SAN, which means their isn't any metric for measuring how much magic they can use. I can't remember if they addressed it in the book, and I am not sure where my copy is at the moment. 

[SDLeary]

8 hours ago, Baulderstone said:

Having Sanity be the sole cost for magic was the way it was done in CoC D20. The only real issue with it is that CoC NPC sorcerers often have 0 SAN, which means their isn't any metric for measuring how much magic they can use. I can't remember if they addressed it in the book, and I am not sure where my copy is at the moment. 

Sanity should be recoverable, depending on what caused the loss. As I suggested, San Points would return. Characteristic San would only come into play after a severe shock. Presumably those that are insane enough to not be able to cast magic will have increasingly resorted to sacrifice to gain points to use.

SDLeary

[Baulderstone]

51 minutes ago, SDLeary said:

Sanity should be recoverable, depending on what caused the loss. As I suggested, San Points would return. Characteristic San would only come into play after a severe shock. Presumably those that are insane enough to not be able to cast magic will have increasingly resorted to sacrifice to gain points to use.

SDLeary

Sacrifice as an alternative energy source for magic makes sense. I don't really like the idea of being too crazy to work magic though. However, I have run games where you can't even use magic until you fall below a certain Sanity threshold. 

[Archivist]

Ooh.. Like unknown armies!

[Baulderstone]

40 minutes ago, Archivist said:

Ooh.. Like unknown armies!

That may have been an influence. 

[SDLeary]

On December 10, 2015 at 7:25 AM, Baulderstone said:

Sacrifice as an alternative energy source for magic makes sense. I don't really like the idea of being too crazy to work magic though. However, I have run games where you can't even use magic until you fall below a certain Sanity threshold. 

Its not that they can't work magic any more, just that they have become bonkers enough that they can't channel their own energy. Thus they need an alternate source. The common alternate source (sacrifice) generally gets them into hot water at some point with the authorities, or with the local townsfolk who tend to supply the batteries. 

Tap would also be a good source here, and could get you into the same social hot water if you HR and say that the "sacrifices" continue to walk around as souless beings.

SDLeary

[Mankcam]

I would go with ReignDragonSMH's suggestion, except just slow the SAN loss pace a little - possibly just drop the ratio to 1 SAN pt  loss per every 2 or 3MP used in Sorcery, depending on your tastes. 

Remember that the outcome of a spell may also cause additional Sanity Loss if it's particularly nasty.

For example 'Breath Of Death' is purely intended to cause suffocation, so watching that occur to the recipient should incur SAN loss, as it's certainly a hostile act designed to harm or kill. Another example is 'Curse of Sorcery', which horribly disfigures a recipient with some gruesome or monstrous quality, so seeing that would certainly incur some significant SAN loss.

Should work pretty well I reckon :-)

Edited December 12, 2015 by Mankcam

[Sean_RDP]

26 minutes ago, Mankcam said:

I would go with ReignDragonSMH's suggestion, except just slow the SAN loss pace a little - possibly just drop the ratio to 1 SAN pt  loss per every 2 or 3MP used in Sorcery, depending on your tastes. 

Remember that the outcome of a spell may also cause additional Sanity Loss if it's particularly nasty.

For example 'Breath Of Death' is purely intended to cause suffocation, so watching that occur to the recipient should incur SAN loss, as it's certainly a hostile act designed to harm or kill. Another example is 'Curse of Sorcery', which horribly disfigures a recipient with some gruesome or monstrous quality, so seeing that would certainly incur some significant SAN loss.

Should work pretty well I reckon :-)

SAN loss per spell seems pretty solid an idea as well. You could really do both a MP and per spell, if you were heartless and wanted to make Sorcery really feel like it cost you something. 

I might also suggest a sliding scale of sorts for SAN loss (again based on MP spent)

MP      1     2     3     4     5     6

SAN     0     1     2     4     6     8

So low levels cost you little or nothing of SAN where as a powerful spell really rips your mind apart.

SAN is going to be an optional rule for Skaerune' and I am not even sure how I am going to tie it in. Maybe even just two paragraphs and a chart.

[SDLeary]

3 hours ago, Mankcam said:

I would go with ReignDragonSMH's suggestion, except just slow the SAN loss pace a little - possibly just drop the ratio to 1 SAN pt  loss per every 2 or 3MP used in Sorcery, depending on your tastes. 

Remember that the outcome of a spell may also cause additional Sanity Loss if it's particularly nasty.

For example 'Breath Of Death' is purely intended to cause suffocation, so watching that occur to the recipient should incur SAN loss, as it's certainly a hostile act designed to harm or kill. Another example is 'Curse of Sorcery', which horribly disfigures a recipient with some gruesome or monstrous quality, so seeing that would certainly incur some significant SAN loss.

Should work pretty well I reckon :-)

Yeah, of course this is probably work very well.

The unwritten reason I ditch the MP is because I've come to the point where I still like crunch, but also want to track as few stats as possible each round. In my "house system" (such as it is), I use the San track for everything... simply renaming it Soul. Tracking both MP and San at the same time is somewhat off-putting.

SDLeary

[Mankcam]

1 hour ago, SDLeary said:

I use the SAN track for everything... simply renaming it Soul.

That's a pretty good idea SDLeary, and I was also considering something like that once, except I was going to call it 'Psyche'. Sounds like it works okay for you.

 

[SDLeary]

18 hours ago, Mankcam said:

That's a pretty good idea SDLeary, and I was also considering something like that once, except I was going to call it 'Psyche'. Sounds like it works okay for you.

 

Only mildly tested so far, no regular group here. But so far so good.

SDLeary

[Baulderstone]

On 12/12/2015 at 8:40 PM, SDLeary said:

Its not that they can't work magic any more, just that they have become bonkers enough that they can't channel their own energy. Thus they need an alternate source. The common alternate source (sacrifice) generally gets them into hot water at some point with the authorities, or with the local townsfolk who tend to supply the batteries. 

Tap would also be a good source here, and could get you into the same social hot water if you HR and say that the "sacrifices" continue to walk around as souless beings.

SDLeary

Yeah, I get what you are going for. The fun thing about magic is that because it doesn't exist, you can take so many different approaches to it. The rules I was working with were based on the idea that magic was deeply intuitive thing where you conscious mind could get in the way. Eroding the conscious mind gives easier access to magic.

It's equally valid to go with the idea that magic requires deep concentration and will. In that case, loss of sanity can destroy the mental strength and understanding required to harness magic. Insane mages make up for lack of control with the excess of power provided by a sacrifice. 

Thinking further on that idea, it could be fun to make sacrificial magic more prone to mishaps. Partly due to damaged users releasing a firehose of magic, partly due to relying on power from a soul that is likely to bear ill-will to the caster for sacrificing them. 

[SDLeary]

On December 13, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Baulderstone said:

Thinking further on that idea, it could be fun to make sacrificial magic more prone to mishaps. Partly due to damaged users releasing a firehose of magic, partly due to relying on power from a soul that is likely to bear ill-will to the caster for sacrificing them. 

I've been thinking along the same lines. This could be especially fun if the mishap occurs as the result of a summoning! 

SDLeary

[Baulderstone]

51 minutes ago, SDLeary said:

I've been thinking along the same lines. This could be especially fun if the mishap occurs as the result of a summoning! 

SDLeary

There is just something about BRP that encourages me to tinker with the magic rules more than I do with most other systems. 

[Gollum]

Yes. I saw that yesterday, while searching through the Big Golden Book just before sleeping. But thank you for the reference ...

It is a very interesting optional rule for heroic/cinematic campaigns where the player characters are supposed to be more tougher than their foe. And, as said in this box, it allows them to survive more easily their foe's critical successes, which gives an atmosphere more close from D&D ... Even if it will still remain very different.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Gollum