Traits for a Longsword Combat Style

[fulk]

I was thinking of starting a game set ~ 15C.  I'd like a Combat Style based off of Fiore dei Liberi's teachings: 

• longsword 2h
• longsword 2h in armor (half-swording)
• longsword 1h
• sword 1h
• poleaxe
• dagger
• grappling
• spear

He also has some sections on mounted combat but that could just fall under the other weapons.  Half-swording involved shifting one hand to the blade of the sword to provide leverage when trying to use the sword like a can-opener versus armor. 

As a Trait, I was contemplating:

Half-sword: when fighting an armored opponent you can reduce the weapon reach to M or S.  Shift Damage Bonus up one level (to represent effectiveness vs armor), or perhaps just +1 damage.  

Thoughts...

[RosenMcStern]

I would rather go with shifting damage bonus DOWN one level and allowing Ignore Armour as a non-critical effect.

The style is also very broad.

[fulk]

Ignore armor as a non-critical effect is pretty powerful even with shifting down one level.  If your db is 1d2, your damage vs some one in plate would be 1d10 + 1d2 - 8 (for plate) normally but 1d10+1d4 - 8.  Ignoring armor but lowering db would be 1d10 - 0.

It is broad, but it is what is in his fencing manuals and the weapons were taught together.  Another option, would be to just include longsword 2h and longsword 2h vs armor and let the other weapons default as reasonable similar (eg -10%).

[RosenMcStern]

Yes, but in this way the style becomes extremely effective also against a lightly armoured enemy with a lot of HP - which is extremely unrealistic, as you are actually losing a lot of momentum when you swing at short distance. If the effect is "help vs. armour", then you should limit its usefulness to armoured opponents - purely increasing damage does not do so.

[fulk]

Yes.  ONLY versus an armored opponent (noted in the original description). It isn't about the 'swing' as much as prying open armor joints (as I understand it).  So potentially only vs.  Plate & Chain or Plate or armor with 4 AP or greater (eg brigandine).  Something like that.  So no bonus against lighter armors. 

I think you could still allow the 'choke up' to M or S for other reasons (like your opponent got close to you)...but no increase to damage in those cases.

[Mankcam]

Perhaps the Half Sword trait just halves the AP value when used against Rigid Armour? 

Edited October 23, 2016 by Mankcam

[Vexthug]

8 hours ago, Mankcam said:

Perhaps the Half Sword trait just halves the AP value when used against Rigid Armour? 

I like this, perhaps you can give the fighter a piercing effect based off your weapon skill. You can ignore one armor point per 10%-20% skill rank depending on how challenging you want to make it.

Miles

 

[Mankcam]

9 hours ago, Vexthug said:

I like this, perhaps you can give the fighter a piercing effect based off your weapon skill. You can ignore one armor point per 10%-20% skill rank depending on how challenging you want to make it.

Miles

 

Sounds interesting - perhaps 1 AP of Rigid Armour reduced per 20% of Combat Skill sounds pretty reasonable, considering this is not a magic spell, its a Combat Style trait. 

Edited October 23, 2016 by Mankcam

[fulk]

Interesting ideas.  I think it just depends on preference.  At 20% of weapon skill you could end up halving (or more) the AP for full plate.  I think I'd prefer just bumping up the db one level (ie, 1d2 to 1d4).  I'd rather not have another calculation to do.   I do like the idea of tying it to skill though.

Adding it as an effect might not be a bad idea either.

 

NT

[Mankcam]

I think the Half Swording technique could also be a spot rule maneuver usable with 2H swords - perhaps you need to make a Hard or Formidable combat roll to perform it. The result would be that you automatically gain access to the Bypass Armour roll, regardless of whether a Critical Success is rolled or not. Only usuable against Rigid Armour.

Just an idea

[fulk]

Yes.  I think it would apply to 2H swords.  Many were quite pointy.  It probably also applies to later poleaxes which could be used in a manner similar to a longsword.

 

I think there are two parts:

(1) Change reach to M or S (from L).  Usable against any opponent.  Also what the manuals of that period show.

(2) Damage.  Personally, I'd prefer a simple approach like just making it an automatic Trait that bumps up your db vs. rigid armor (if you shorten up your grip).  All these other ideas work too.  Just depends how you want to model it.  Main point is that the overall idea seems reasonable.

[Darius West]

As a technique the half sword is shortened, reducing speed, providing extra leverage and the use of the point, so, worsen the strike rank, bump the DB up one notch and make the weapon have an impale chance rather than a cutting effect.

[fulk]

I'm not sure it would reduce speed to the point of reducing strike rank.  Range for sure, and yes, impale only.