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Learning a New Skill


Tywyll

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Hmm, looks like the RQIII errata paragraph didn't get pulled across. Tthey went as follows: it takes a full 50 hours, and then the character gets 1d6-2, plus skill category modifier (if you are using those), and until you have a positive skill (remember, those category modifiers can be negative...) you keep spending tine in 50 hour blocks toget further 1D6-2 increases )no skill category modifier afetr the first time). Once you have even 1% in skill, the normal skill training rules apply.

Cheers,

Nick

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Hmm, looks like the RQIII errata paragraph didn't get pulled across.

It's there Nick. Page 184 under "Required Skill Training Time." Organization-wise, it probably should have been front-loaded to an earlier chapter near...oh I don't know..."Skills" :P instead of being cribbed after "Terrain and Weather Modifiers" and before "Combat."

This always runs into a bit of a logic problem (that happens with the current BRP characteristic training too, and perhaps is worse); if you can only get such things from training, how did it get established in the first place?

Nightshade, see page 49 allows (at GM's decision) an untrained 00% attempt, especially if you use the Category Bonus option (which I do). The Wild Chance option or the Wits and Talent option are there if you feel generous. I suspect that in RL that is how skills are developed. You take related disciplines and drill into it with other disciplines. It doesn't happen often that you invent something that's actually a "teachable" skill, but that's how dads throughout the ages seem to pass off Parenting to their spawn as if it were first nature, so there is RL precedence. Also, on a more serious note see "Parkour" and see how that wild combination of acrobatics, running, and climbing are clabbered together by somebody with related skills just trying something new and inventing a new discipline (doubtless hurting themselves a lot in the process).

There is also the Complementary Skills option on page 50 if the skill you are looking to improve is somehow related (a grey area subject to different interpretations). If the GM has "Call of Cthulhu" in their repertoire (as I know you do Nightshade), then at the GM's call, you invoke the Brainstorming option from page 202 of the Keeper's Companion Volume 1. No skill checks there, sorry.

Brainstorming, An Earnest Option Rule (paraphrased)

If baffled by a problem, or need a skill not present among team members, the GM may suggest they brainstorm to pool a solution appropriate for the problem.

Allow each character to contribute skill percentiles toward the common goal. No one contributes more than one skill and no none contributes more than 25%. The group chooses a leader for the operation and her player rolls D100. None of the players receive skill checks for the roll, regardless of success/failure.

Edited by FunGuyFromYuggoth

Roll D100 and let the percentiles sort them out.

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This always runs into a bit of a logic problem (that happens with the current BRP characteristic training too, and perhaps is worse); if you can only get such things from training, how did it get established in the first place?

The GM (or a Muse, or an Epiphany, or Divine Inspiration, or a Brain Fart, etc.) said, "Dude, you get this skill/stat rating, k?"

"Men of broader intellect know that there is no sharp distinction betwixt the real and the unreal..."

- H.P. Lovecraft

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I have the opposite worry. My observation (YMMV) is that one needs to stop and open the rulebook for something frequently enough, players will start losing trust in the GM to tell the story and in turn derail the atmosphere that you've worked weeks to create. Some "rules' should be intuited. Some calls have to be made. That's the GM's responsibility.

Edited by FunGuyFromYuggoth

Roll D100 and let the percentiles sort them out.

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I have the opposite worry. My observation (YMMV) is that one needs to stop and open the rulebook for something frequently enough, players will start losing trust in the GM to tell the story and in turn derail the atmosphere that you've worked weeks to create. Some "rules' should be intuited. Some calls have to be made. That's the GM's responsibility.

Quoted for Agreement.

I don't think GM's intervene, especially with Rule Zero. It's the GM's job, in my mind, to interpret the rules and actions in a fashion to support the setting, provide a challenge, and keep the game moving smoothly. I think this is actually the most fun part of being a GM; making my mind work and coming up with solutions to fit sudden circumstances.

Memorizing every spot rule word-for-word is not only NOT a pre-requisite for this, I actually recommend a loose understanding of the rules to keep the mind "on its toes," as it were.

Edited by Ars Mysteriorum

"Men of broader intellect know that there is no sharp distinction betwixt the real and the unreal..."

- H.P. Lovecraft

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Quoted for Agreement.

I don't think GM's intervene, especially with Rule Zero. It's the GM's job, in my mind, to interpret the rules and actions in a fashion to support the setting, provide a challenge, and keep the game moving smoothly. I think this is actually the most fun part of being a GM; making my mind work and coming up with solutions to fit sudden circumstances.

Memorizing every spot rule word-for-word is not only NOT a pre-requisite for this, I actually recommend a loose understanding of the rules to keep the mind "on its toes," as it were.

That may be, but if something isn't doing what it should, I'm far more prone to houseruling than ad-hoc ruling; the latter should be reserved for one off events that aren't going to ever come up again; otherwise you're just asking for contradictory decisions to be made from one time to the next, and I see absolutely no virtue in that.

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BRP is a intended as an easy to play ruleset for minimalists. We should not make the mistake to Gurpsificate it. For such minor questions like learning new skills every good GM should be ready to come up with his own ruling.

I don't consider BRP a minimalist rules system, nor do I consider that a minor question, and as such I don't think addressing it is "GURPsifying" it. Nor do I see a virtue in making this more GM dependent than other areas the rules already covers.

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How does someone learn a skill that starts at 0%? How long do they spend if being taught or researching before they get to make an improvement roll?

Good catch.

Normally, training time is supposedly equal to hours per percentile in a skill, but with a 0% in a skill, I'd suggest that the GM require a minimum of time (1D3 hours, for example) for an instructor to drill the character on the rudiments.

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It's there Nick. Page 184 under "Required Skill Training Time." Organization-wise, it probably should have been front-loaded to an earlier chapter near...oh I don't know..."Skills" :P instead of being cribbed after "Terrain and Weather Modifiers" and before "Combat."

The philosophy there was that all of the rules to play one session would come first, then be followed by the rules for continued play.

Should the day come when a BRP 2.0 is written, and should I be involved with it, I'd probably reorganize it so that characteristic improvement is covered after the section on characteristics, and information about skill improvement would go in the skills chapter.

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I don't consider BRP a minimalist rules system, nor do I consider that a minor question, and as such I don't think addressing it is "GURPsifying" it. Nor do I see a virtue in making this more GM dependent than other areas the rules already covers.

Neither do I. I think it's just a matter of interpretation in a system that can exist as rules light (option boxes checked off) or rules heavy (all option boxes checked on--perhaps at risk of some of options not playing well with each other). As prospective GMs, we can exist in the same BRP framework and exist all along that spectrum.

After all, part of the purpose of this forum is to present ideas and possible approaches that work for you and could help others in similar circumstances. :) I won't dispute your preferences when stating mine, but will certainly try to learn everything I can from everyone here (even if I don't use most of it).

Roll D100 and let the percentiles sort them out.

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Neither do I. I think it's just a matter of interpretation in a system that can exist as rules light (option boxes checked off) or rules heavy (all option boxes checked on--perhaps at risk of some of options not playing well with each other). As prospective GMs, we can exist in the same BRP framework and exist all along that spectrum.

That's pretty much my take too.

I just think this sort of thing comes up often enough in certain sorts of campaigns that the "Let the GM decide" take isn't being particularly reasonable; it comes across as "I'm fussy about having rules for the things that matter to me, but since this doesn't I don't see why the system should bother with rules for it."

(And to make it clear, I'm not accusing you of that view.)

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Oh, I know Nightshade. We're all friends here. :D:innocent::lol:

I can be pretty blunt and in-your-face when I think its needed; I just like to make sure when someone sees me as attacking their views (I try really hard not to attack the person, though I'm sure I sometimes fail) that I really am. When discussing a position shared to various degrees by multiple people, its way to easy to either lump them together or seem to, though, so I like to try and remain clear about it.

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I can be pretty blunt and in-your-face when I think its needed; I just like to make sure when someone sees me as attacking their views (I try really hard not to attack the person, though I'm sure I sometimes fail) that I really am. When discussing a position shared to various degrees by multiple people, its way to easy to either lump them together or seem to, though, so I like to try and remain clear about it.

It's easy here to misunderstand and to be misunderstood. :innocent: I think that's part of the problem of not seeing a face and having to account for millions of years of social interaction--all of that interpretation having to be compressed into pixels on a shiny screen. Add what we already know about human nature and the readiness to reach for that heavy rock when somebody annoys us. :lol:

Roll D100 and let the percentiles sort them out.

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