Wrack?

[Oni]

I'm flipping back through the pdf of Magic World, because I'm thinking about running some flavor of BRP (which I have no experience with beyond reading through a few different versions) and I noticed the Wrack spell 1) seemed really terrible, and 2) raised some general rules questions for me.  

1) It says it's a touch spell, how are those resolved?  Does the caster have to roll something?  Does the defender get a defense roll on top of the resistance roll?

2) Can the caster move while casting spells, or is the poor sorcerer attempting to cast Wrack stuck in melee the entire time?  

3) Can someone casting a spell make a defense roll? If they do will they lose the spell?

4) Do touch spells hold as a charge, or can the target simply step back from you and spoil your spell?

5) I'm assuming it ignores armor, but the damage seems quite low for the apparent hoops you have to go through to cast it.  Is it as terrible a spell as it seems?

[NickMiddleton]

1 hour ago, Oni said:

I'm flipping back through the pdf of Magic World, because I'm thinking about running some flavor of BRP (which I have no experience with beyond reading through a few different versions) and I noticed the Wrack spell 1) seemed really terrible, and 2) raised some general rules questions for me.  

1) It says it's a touch spell, how are those resolved?  Does the caster have to roll something?  Does the defender get a defense roll on top of the resistance roll?

In combat use, I'd say a Brawl or Wrestle attack would be required, arguably an easy one (however you choose to assess "easy" rolls), with a Dodge or parry as a defense as you are simply trying to touch the target.

1 hour ago, Oni said:

2) Can the caster move while casting spells, or is the poor sorcerer attempting to cast Wrack stuck in melee the entire time?

IIRC They spend a round casting the spell, which becomes active at their INT in the Casting order - they then have until that point the following round to discharge it. SO if they cast it during a fight yes - but there's no necessity for anyone to KNOW they are casting it...

1 hour ago, Oni said:

3) Can someone casting a spell make a defense roll? If they do will they lose the spell?

Given the wording on 104 / 105 I'd say per that page they have to concentrate for the whole casting time so yes, Dodging / parrying whilst casting would lose the spell (as would taking 1 or points of damage).

1 hour ago, Oni said:

4) Do touch spells hold as a charge, or can the target simply step back from you and spoil your spell?

Effectively yes.

1 hour ago, Oni said:

5) I'm assuming it ignores armor, but the damage seems quite low for the apparent hoops you have to go through to cast it. Is it as terrible a spell as it seems?

I'd also assume it ignores armor. I don't think it is a terrible spell per se, but its use is not what its description might at first suggest. It was briefly discussed a few years back:

It's a terrible _combat_ spell (for better effects in combat use Sorceror's Razor / Sharp Flame or others...). But, besides its utility for killing rats etc consider this spells name: "Wrack"...

It's for torturing prisoners / intimidating peasants. It's entirely possible that non-Wizards will have no idea that it has been cast, so when the Wizard steps up and slaps the local loud mouth and their face erupts in suppurating boils etc the crowd will flinch.

The original intent of the spells in Elric! was to avoid the "fire & forget / mobile artillery" model of magic that is common in e.g. most version of D&D, so there wasn't originally ANY direct damage spell of this sort - no fireball / magic missile etc. IIRC Wrack is adapted from the Elric supplement "Sailing on the Seas of Fate" which adapted it in turn from the old RQ spell Disruption (that WAS Ranged).

Cheers,

Nick

 

[Mugen]

On 06/07/2017 at 0:46 PM, NickMiddleton said:

The original intent of the spells in Elric! was to avoid the "fire & forget / mobile artillery" model of magic that is common in e.g. most version of D&D, so there wasn't originally ANY direct damage spell of this sort - no fireball / magic missile etc. IIRC Wrack is adapted from the Elric supplement "Sailing on the Seas of Fate" which adapted it in turn from the old RQ spell Disruption (that WAS Ranged).

There was one, actually, whose name was something like "Flames of Kakatal". It was one in a series of 4 elemental spells, each named after one of the 4 lords of Elemental, which all cost 4 MP, and were a pre-requisite to learn how to summon elementals.

You can find it in the Big Yellow Book, but without the name Kakatal.

[NickMiddleton]

22 minutes ago, Mugen said:

There was one, actually, whose name was something like "Flames of Kakatal". It was one in a series of 4 elemental spells, each named after one of the 4 lords of Elemental, which all cost 4 MP, and were a pre-requisite to learn how to summon elementals.

You can find it in the Big Yellow Book, but without the name Kakatal.

IIRC the "Elemental Summoning" Spells are still in Magic World - but their wording may well have been revised. *pause, pokes iCloud drive* Yep - Summon Elemental on page 127 of Magic World mentions  prerequisites of "Bounty of the Sea, Flames of the Sun, Gift of the Earth and Wings of the Sky". As described on page 111 Flames of the Sun isn't really a good fireball substitute: it's basically a "create bonfire spell", so whilst it would certainly have a potential roll in siege warfare etc it doesn't really mimic the direct, immediate damage capability of a Fireball...

Did Flames of Kakatal allow the mass of fire to "firebolt" targets, or am I conflating that from a basic Fire elemental (possibly in earlier EC rules!)? My PDF of the BGB isn't in my iCloud alas (and my copy of Elric! is at home).

Cheers,

Nick

 

[Mugen]

11 hours ago, NickMiddleton said:

IIRC the "Elemental Summoning" Spells are still in Magic World - but their wording may well have been revised. *pause, pokes iCloud drive* Yep - Summon Elemental on page 127 of Magic World mentions  prerequisites of "Bounty of the Sea, Flames of the Sun, Gift of the Earth and Wings of the Sky". As described on page 111 Flames of the Sun isn't really a good fireball substitute: it's basically a "create bonfire spell", so whilst it would certainly have a potential roll in siege warfare etc it doesn't really mimic the direct, immediate damage capability of a Fireball...

Did Flames of Kakatal allow the mass of fire to "firebolt" targets, or am I conflating that from a basic Fire elemental (possibly in earlier EC rules!)? My PDF of the BGB isn't in my iCloud alas (and my copy of Elric! is at home).

Cheers,

Nick

Well, I never said there was a GOOD one.

The BGB version (Flames of the Sun) is 3 meters wide, and deals 1d6+2 damage per round. Though it's stationary, it can be cast anywhere in Sight range. It's big enough that avoiding it in combat would require a Dodge roll, in my opinion.

It's far from being a good substitute to FireBall, but it has a better damage per MP spent than most damaging spells in the book ( 3-8 for 4 MP versus the usual 1-6 per 3 MP).

 

Edit : I checked my Elric! book, and it matches that description.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Mugen

[Questbird]

4 hours ago, Mugen said:

Well, I never said there was a GOOD one.

The BGB version (Flames of the Sun) is 3 meters wide, and deals 1d6+2 damage per round. Though it's stationary, it can be cast anywhere in Sight range. It's big enough that avoiding it in combat would require a Dodge roll, in my opinion.

It's far from being a good substitute to FireBall, but it has a better damage per MP spent than most damaging spells in the book ( 3-8 for 4 MP versus the usual 1-6 per 3 MP).

 

Edit : I checked my Elric! book, and it matches that description.

A sorcerer in my campaign certainly used Flames of Kakatal to scorch a number of bandits.

[thefub]

When I run MW/BRP sorcery I use touch as a range of being engaged in melee combat. Therefor if a caster can get next to an opponent and still hold concentration on casting the spell, I let the spell go off without rolling for brawl or any other combat skill. Most sorcery spells have resistance which needs to be overcome and I feel there is little reason to add another roll. I simply think of as an energy jumping to the target that needs to be within a very short distance.