Squaredeal Sten Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 On 3/31/2018 at 7:30 AM, M Helsdon said: ....... The hull is usually lined with very thin sheets of lead to provide protection from worms and other marine creatures. This permits the ship to stay in the water throughout the sailing season, unlike a warship, but increases its weight and reduces its maximum speed. These ships are often used as .... Roundship Length 40 ft. Beam 11 ft. Draught 4-6 ft. Speed Knots Duration Sail: 2-5 Daylight Lined with lead? Or sheathed? Sheathed would make more sense to me, because lining can only have an effect after the worms have eaten through the wood, while sheathing is preventive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 1 minute ago, Squaredeal Sten said: Lined with lead? Or sheathed? Sheathed would make more sense to me, because lining can only have an effect after the worms have eaten through the wood, while sheathing is preventive. Lined or sheathed, depending on circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Lead line as early as 5th century BC or or lead lined as early as 3rd century BC? http://course.sdu.edu.cn/Download2/20220221170932002.pdf Interesting article even calls into play ASTM testing but how was it fastened to the hull? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 8 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: but how was it fastened to the hull? Copper, bronze or brass tacks or nails. I have read of gilded nails to minimize corrosion, but that was rare and expensive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Zinc dipped nails, made me think of Maze Nails Peru Illinois. Zinc coating has been around since it was first used to protect iron pillars in ancient India, more than 16 centuries ago. Zinc has been used to protect armor and in recent times became part of the process of galvanization. This occurs when items like screws or nails are hot dipped in a molten zinc solution. I suppose lead is somewhat mailable and combined with a pitch/tar underlayer possibly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: I suppose lead is somewhat mailable and combined with a pitch/tar underlayer possibly? Hulls seem to have been treated with pine pitch. Some papers suggest there was sometimes a layer of cloth between the lead and timber, but I haven't read of any archaeological evidence of this in our ancient world. In Glorantha, zinc or a similar metal may exist, perhaps associated with Lodril, given his associations with brass. Instead, as in our ancient world, nails might be marked with magical signs and inscriptions. A footnote from my WIP: Hammered and rolled to a thickness of 1-2mm and held in place with short wide-headed copper or brass tacks. Complete sheathing can prolong the life of a hull by protecting the pitch sealant from wear, forming a barrier against fouling and marine borers, sealing joints and seams, increasing rigidity, and by reducing sagging. Patches of lead can also be used to reinforce areas of damage or rot. Such protection is too heavy to be used for a galley. Edited February 8, 2023 by M Helsdon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 12 hours ago, M Helsdon said: Some papers suggest there was sometimes a layer of cloth between the lead and timber, but I haven't read of any archaeological evidence of this in our ancient world. Would have thought any cloth would have been applied with the tar pitch or was saturated with it. It seems strange that any lead would have been on the outside as it would have worn off rather speedily if the ship beached regularly but maybe they were careful with that? On another note has anyone has scenarios where say, creatures like the Loch Ness Monster attacked a harbor of fishing settlement? Yes, I know Harpoon is there in Sun County for that reason but instead along the Plateau? If so curious as to plot, season, aggressors, maybe a God Learner mind controlled monster or something? Vampiric plesiosaurs maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said: Would have thought any cloth would have been applied with the tar pitch or was saturated with it. It seems strange that any lead would have been on the outside as it would have worn off rather speedily if the ship beached regularly but maybe they were careful with that? Tubs and round ships were rarely beached, being more difficult and hazardous to haul fully out of the water (and they have to be unloaded of cargo and ballast), and lacking sufficient crew to do so. Instead, they were taken out of the water at most at the end of the sailing season. The sheathing was perhaps regularly repaired and replaced. When draft beaching the ship would rest on her keel, still in the water, and the keel probably wasn't sheathed. The pine pitch was painted directly onto the timbers. It is likely that the pitch was refreshed when the sheathing was maintained, perhaps once a year. As previously noted, the main use of lead sheathing was to protect the pine pitch and deter fouling and ship worm, so it had to be on the outside of the hull. 12 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said: On another note has anyone has scenarios where say, creatures like the Loch Ness Monster attacked a harbor of fishing settlement? Sea monsters are but one threat encountered at sea by Gloranthan mariners. Plesiosaurs would be among the least monstrous.... Edited February 8, 2023 by M Helsdon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 8 hours ago, M Helsdon said: Plesiosaurs would be among the least monstrous.... least monstrous.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manunancy Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) If you consider the element's wheel, a lead sheathing sounds better than a copper one : darkness is strong against water, and water is strong against Earth. Asl ofor using magic, you're probably better of warding agasint Water with Darkness rather than Stasis since your ship needs to move... Edited February 10, 2023 by Manunancy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joerg Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 32 minutes ago, Manunancy said: If you consider teh element's wheel, a lead sheathing sounds better than a copper one : darkness is strong against water, and water is strong against Earth. Asl ofor using magic, you're probably better of warding agasint Water with Darkness rather than Stasis since your ship needs to move... The bore-worms may be closer to Darkness than to Water, at least for the destructive part of their life cycle. IIRC they are really snails, not worms, which leaves me at a loss which daughter/descendent of Sokazub would be responsible. Quote Telling how it is excessive verbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfbrandi Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 3 hours ago, Joerg said: bore-worms … are really snails … which leaves me at a loss which … descendent of Sokazub would be responsible. What is wrong with Molluca? Quote NOTORIOUS VØID CULTIST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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