Tarshite Sun Dome Temple questions

[Professor Chaos]

Looking closely at the maps in the Guide it appears to me that both Ever New Glory and Goldedge are located beyond the Deathline (it is difficult to be precise as I believe the only depiction of the Deathline in the Guide is the Genertela map on page 140 - but you can zoom right in).

However the zero, first and second wane maps in the Sourcebook and the Tarsh Map in revised King of Sartar both show the death-line some miles to the south and east of where it is in the Guide c.1220 map - so Ever New Glory would be outside it.

So which is correct? - or is there a sort of forbidden but not actually lethal zone between the two lines where a Sun Dome Temple with the right magic might have survived but in relative isolation?

Goldedge however if it was a Nysalorean foundation must surely have been abandoned if not destroyed throughout the whole inhuman occupation (unless whatever we call the Elf-cult of Yelmalio now maintained it as a shrine).

Goldedge is also interesting in that we are told it is the home of the Goldedge foot which in multiple sources of varying canonicity is always described as a standard Tarshite shieldwall or whatever the current term is and not a Sun Dome Templar unit.

So was Goldedge refounded much as Vaantar was but under the patronage of a Tarsh king? 

And does the Goldedge SDT actually run the city and have its own Sun County or is it just the largest temple in a city with a predominantly Lunarised/lowland Tarshite population?

I also wonder why if there was a functioning Sun Dome Temple at Ever New Glory just three or four days away from Elkoi all throughout the Third Age how the Yelmalio (or Tharkantus or whatever the hell it was called) cult in Balazar became as degenerate (or perhaps just atypical) as it appears to have become?

Surely the citadel priests at least would have sought training at Ever New Glory and you would expect it to have maintained some trade with the three citadels?

And if tribal Yelmalion Praxians from all across the wastes treat their nearest Sun Dome Temple as a pilgrimage site wouldn't Balazaring Yelmalions have had a similar relationship with Ever New Glory?

(They don't - as Griffin Mountain tells us they gather instead at Elkoi for Yelmalio's High Holy Day even though they could have carried on just another 3 or 4 days to celebrate at a real Sun Dome Temple with the golden dome and everything).

I am inclined to the view that whatever community survived the Dragonkill at the site of ENG was relatively tiny (for a start you'd rather expect pretty much the entire adult male population to have joined the True Golden Horde and been slaughtered) and sensibly kept themselves very much to themselves throughout the Inhuman Occupation - and it was only with the Lunarisation of Tarsh that it became a fully functional SDT (in the sense of having a full hierarchy of priests, light sons, templars etc) again and that as a reformed if not refounded SDT they regard the Balazarings as barely Yelmalions at all.

 

[scott-martin]

6 minutes ago, Professor Chaos said:

is there a sort of forbidden but not actually lethal zone

I wouldn't be surprised if the kill lines primarily frightened people to death, ensuring that only the most desperate locals or ignorant strangers from far away would dare take their chances testing the edges. Maybe most died at first but a few came back to tell the tale. Like the Ban the effect would evaporate with repeat evidence that crossing the line isn't necessarily inexorable doom . . . in that scenario the line would roll back for the right people under the right circumstances until the land was completely reopened.

So people could have persevered behind the line. Odds are good they don't like to talk about it. 

[Joerg]

28 minutes ago, Professor Chaos said:

Goldedge is also interesting in that we are told it is the home of the Goldedge foot which in multiple sources of varying canonicity is always described as a standard Tarshite shieldwall or whatever the current term is and not a Sun Dome Templar unit.

 

Where do you think would the Gold Edge Templars have been stationed during the Dragonrise of 1625? The Native Furthest troops are a kind of fyrd rather than professionals.

[M Helsdon]

41 minutes ago, Professor Chaos said:

However the zero, first and second wane maps in the Sourcebook and the Tarsh Map in revised King of Sartar both show the death-line some miles to the south and east of where it is in the Guide c.1220 map - so Ever New Glory would be outside it.

Ever New Glory is a relatively new temple city, postdating the repopulation of Dragon Pass, founded after the conquest of Saird. Unlike Goldedge, it doesn't provide a regiment to the Tarsh Provincial Army.

41 minutes ago, Professor Chaos said:

Goldedge is also interesting in that we are told it is the home of the Goldedge foot which in multiple sources of varying canonicity is always described as a standard Tarshite shieldwall or whatever the current term is and not a Sun Dome Templar unit.

The latest canonical description lists their weapons as long spear and large shield, so they are probably phalangites, like the other Yelmalion regiments.

Edited October 10, 2018 by M Helsdon

[M Helsdon]

46 minutes ago, Professor Chaos said:

I also wonder why if there was a functioning Sun Dome Temple at Ever New Glory just three or four days away from Elkoi all throughout the Third Age how the Yelmalio (or Tharkantus or whatever the hell it was called) cult in Balazar became as degenerate (or perhaps just atypical) as it appears to have become?

There isn't a hierarchy of temples, and Tarsh has a history of enslaving Balazarings, so any trying to travel to a temple there are more likely to end up on the block at Slavewall... In fact, the various Great Temples are unlikely to be as monolithic as they might appear - we only have details of the one in Prax, and that's atypical in several ways.

Edited October 10, 2018 by M Helsdon

[Professor Chaos]

Dragging out Tarsh in Flames I find Notes on the History of Tarsh and a map which being by Greg himself surely counts as 'canon' - and I see there is in fact a Danger Line which is roughly where the Guide map puts it and a Deathline where the Sourcebook and King of Sartar put it.

We're also told by Greg that the valley of the Black Eel was devastated by the Trio Weave - three dragons that killed most of the population and then flew east towards the mountains and directly over where Ever New Glory would have been if it had existed in 1120 - and that the human survivors of the Trio Weave attack did not stay but fled.

As for the Danger Line anyone passing it was 'acutely likely' to be attacked by dragonewts or dream dragons and no one getting as far as the Death Line  ever returned from it.

Greg also tells us that a Barteri tribe was formed after the Battle of Falling Hills (which means the sourcebook maps which show it occupying the area where ENG is much earlier are wrong) and seems to have been a buffer between Tarsh and Holay for several decades and then disappeared and that by the reign of Illaro the Carafandoli tribe are occupying the area between Borni's Landing and Tarshford having according to another map attributed to Greg driven out the Balazarings from the same area.

The Carafandoli - which according to the article on the tribes of Tarsh from same publication - are based at Tarshford and were responsible for the slave raids into Balazar therefore appear to occupy exactly the territory that you would expect to be a Sun County (and a fully fledged SDT surely does need significant agricultural territory to keep its dome gilded and maintain its priesthood and its Templars). 

In any case it is surely clear that neither Tarsh Sun Dome Temple can have been continuously occupied since the Dragonkill and at some point they must have been refounded by someone....

 

[M Helsdon]

7 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

In any case it is surely clear that neither Tarsh Sun Dome Temple can have been continuously occupied since the Dragonkill and at some point they must have been refounded by someone....

One appears to be fairly new, the other re-consecrated. Both probably from a surviving temple to the north.

[Brootse]

12 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Ever New Glory is a relatively new temple city, postdating the repopulation of Dragon Pass, founded after the conquest of Saird. Unlike Goldedge, it doesn't provide a regiment to the Tarsh Provincial Army.

The latest canonical description lists their weapons as long spear and large shield, so they are probably phalangites, like the other Yelmalion regiments.





Phalangites have pikes and smaller shields.

[M Helsdon]

10 hours ago, Brootse said:

Phalangites have pikes and smaller shields.

I know - it's probably an error in the army list. One thing they aren't is a fyrd.

This is based on the best information I can find (though the colors are my supposition and the change in shield size is my own assumption based on how they fight).

Goldedge Foot
Type	Heavy Infantry
Armor	Lacquered Leather/Linen
Weapons	Sarissa, small phalangite shield
Morale	Regular	4
Patron Deity	Yelmalio
Notes	Yelmalio cultists organized around their Sun Dome Temple.
Magic Factor	Low	3
Missile Factor	0
Melee Factor	3

Raised by the Goldedge Sun Dome Temple. Their helmet decorations are dyed yellow or orange.

The regiment survived the Battle of the Auroch Hills in 1622 but took losses at the Battle of Dangerford in 1625.

Edited October 11, 2018 by M Helsdon