Rules Questions About HeroQuest: Glorantha

[creativehum]

I'm pulling together a booklet of the HeroQuest rules in an attempt to clean up the rules, typos, and needed clarifications and get the mechanics presented in as simple and straightforward manner as possible.

It dawns on me I'm going to probably have many questions as I go, so rather than keep adding new threads I'll start one thread and keep adding the questions.

First Question: The Resolution Point Table (p. 70)

On an errata thread Oracle wrote:

p.70 – (as well as other pages) there are references to the “Resolution Point Table.” On p. 70, the second table is labeled “Extended Contest Resolution Points.” After looking for the “Resolution Points Table” and not finding it, I realized that the “Extended Contest Resolution Points” might well be the Resolution Point Table. Is it? If so, I don’t think it should be labeled “Extended Contest Resolution Points” — because it is used for both Simple and Extended contests. Yes? It simply is the “Resolution Points Table” and spits out information for Group Simple Contests and Group Extended Contests. (That is, if I’m correct about the Table’s purpose!)

I had the same confusion, but I do believe that this is the Resolution Point Table.

However, I have a new confusion. The rules state that "winning side" gets the point value listed in the table. But what if the Target value for each side side is the same and there is a tie? Do no points get given out? Is there a tie breaking method for the table.

I apologize if these rules are already in the text. I have looked and cannot find them.

 

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, creativehum said:

I had the same confusion, but I do believe that this is the Resolution Point Table.

Yes, it is used for both Group Simple and Extended Contests.

1 hour ago, creativehum said:

The rules state that "winning side" gets the point value listed in the table. But what if the Target value for each side side is the same and there is a tie? Do no points get given out? Is there a tie breaking method for the table.

No points are given out for a tie and the current totals remain the same.

There is no need to 'break' such a tie.  In an Extended Contest, you simply have another round and both sides roll again.

In a Group Simple Contest, a tie at an individual roll level has no impact on the final result.  For a tie at the group level, either the players can use a HP to boost the result and give themselves a Marginal Victory, or you as GM can determine what it means for the result to be a draw.

[creativehum]

Thanks so much for the response!

[creativehum]

On page 74 discussing Extended Contests the rules state the the winner of an exchange accumulates Resolution Points and that the first side to reach 5 RPs wins. 

However, on page 78 onward, the rules for Group Extended Contests state RPs won by a character are scored against his opponent, and that first person in a conflict to accumulate 5 RPs loses. 

Clearly, it's a mistake and one need only pick one way or the other. So I'm hear asking if it matters which method one picks. (It's late and I'm tired and I assume either method will work just fine. But if one falls apart because people can switch opponents in a Group Extended Contest or something, I'd love to hear it.)

[David Scott]

The example is incorrect. As I've said elsewhere on this site, it's on my list to rewrite correctly.

[creativehum]

Hi David, 

Thanks so much for the reply. (And I'm sure many of the questions I'm asking have been covered elsewhere. I asked on another thread if a comprehensive list of corrections is posted anywhere and haven't been pointed to it yet.)

Could you tell me which phrasing is incorrect? Each phrasing is the text of the rules themselves. So are the rules about each side trying to accumulate the RPs? Or scoring RPs against the other side?

[jajagappa]

5 hours ago, creativehum said:

RPs won by a character are scored against his opponent, and that first person in a conflict to accumulate 5 RPs loses.

This is the correct phrasing.  As a player, you want to push your opponent to 5 or more RP's.

[creativehum]

Thanks!

[creativehum]

Another question:

In Extended Contests, do Assists replace the method that one Hero can help another, or are both Assists and Augments available in Extended Contests?

If Assists do replace Augment in Extended contests, can a Hero still Augment himself?

Thanks!

[jajagappa]

7 hours ago, creativehum said:

In Extended Contests, do Assists replace the method that one Hero can help another, or are both Assists and Augments available in Extended Contests?

Assists are the method by which one player helps another.  Augments are the method by which a player helps her/himself.  You can only assist if you are not otherwise engaged.  Assists do not replace augments.

Example: Aren is fighting a Hell Hound.  He uses his Thane 1W as his base ability to fight and augments using his Fire keyword at 2W to create a flaming spear to drive back the foul beast.  The Hell Hound is a Very High Difficulty, so this will really tax Aren to defeat it.

The healer Sareranalda is watching the fight and realizes Aren needs help.  She casts her Heal Wounds at 1W upon him as an Assist with a Moderate difficulty. 

Note that successful Assists reduce the points against the target (i.e. if Aren has taken 3 points against him from the Hell Hound, and another Minor Defeat means losing the fight, then a minor victory by Sareranalda in her assist will remove 2 points from Aren's total, bringing him back to 1 in the fight).

 

Edited February 18, 2017 by jajagappa

[Chiarina]

Quote

Augments are the method by which a player helps her/himself. 

Excuse me... but is this really true?

Quote

P. 104: An augment is a bonus a hero gets to his target number as a result of a prior contest. This can be either a contest he took part in, or one performed by someone else, most likely a hero.

It seems to me the rule tells a different story. I´m confused...

 

[Joerg]

2 minutes ago, Chiarina said:

Excuse me... but is this really true?

It seems to me the rule tells a different story. I´m confused...

There will be a simple contest to determine the magnitude (if any) the augment will have on the player's roll. This can be a supporting skill the character uses to improve her chances, or it could be some other party member creating a better environment for the character to succeed in.

[Chiarina]

Allright, but this means, Augments are not only a method "by which a player helps her/himself", right?

[jajagappa]

5 hours ago, Chiarina said:

Excuse me... but is this really true?

Yes. Augments modify your chance of success with your ability.  For instance, you use your ability to Fly Upon the Winds 17, augmented by your Raise a Gale 13 ability so you can fly faster.

5 hours ago, Chiarina said:

It seems to me the rule tells a different story. I´m confused...

Continue on with the paragraph:  "an augment contest is conducted for the sole purpose of gaining a bonus" and the next paragraph: "To grant an augment to a hero in an upcoming
contest".

4 hours ago, Chiarina said:

Allright, but this means, Augments are not only a method "by which a player helps her/himself", right?

I've never used in any circumstance except a player augmenting their own ability.  The rules give you leeway to do so, but I just use Assists for such actions.

[jrutila]

We have always played so that a hero can augment another hero's ability. Assist is only used in Extended Contest to remove Resolution Points. Augment will increase ability value. In case of Simple Contests this is a neat way to get two heroes to participate in the contest as the other augments the other. But only one augment attempt (from himself/herself or from another hero) for one ability use in a contest.

[Chiarina]

That´s the way we do it, too.

[mikyra]

Do you know if it is possible to reduce the number of players participating in a "Group Simple Contest" below all players?

If this is possible, it could be a nice option to have a variable number of players instead of two  (one augmenting and one making a simple contest) participate in a contest without having to involve the whole group.

But I am not sure if this is allowed.

In the rules it says (see: page 70)

Quote

(1) A group simple contest can pit all of the participating heroes against a single difficulty, representing one obstacle.
(2) In a group simple contest, each player rolls a single time; the Game Master rolls the same difficulty
value once per player.

[...]

(3) The Game Master has everyone roll, and holds off on describing the action until all of the results are
tabulated and combined.

The part "all of the participating heroes" in (1) seems to make this an option.

Yet I am not sure if the part "each player rolls" in (2) and "The Game Master has everyone roll" in (3) is meant to be read as "each [participating] player" and "everyone [participating in the contest]"

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by mikyra

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, mikyra said:

Do you know if it is possible to reduce the number of players participating in a "Group Simple Contest" below all players?

Of course! There's no obligation that everyone be involved in any specific contest.  

3 hours ago, mikyra said:

Yet I am not sure if the part "each player rolls" in (2)

Everyone who is involved in the contest makes their own individual roll. The GM makes a corresponding roll for each contest, but always at the single set difficulty.

[mikyra]

Reading the rules on, again I stumbled across a number of questions.

Augments
Using the Quick Augments (page 104) option it says I should use the augmenting ability divided by 5 rounded up.

QUESTION: Does this mean I convert masteries  to score points first?

So for example an ability rating of "1 W 2" would grant an augment of +9 ?

 

Healing

QUESTION: May I make a healing attempt only once?

It seems there is no limit on the number of tries - well besides killing the patient by accident of course.

Is it meant to be that way, as a failed healing attempt may as well make things worse?
Or is it meant to be an attempt made only once per suffered SoA?

 

Pyrrhic Victories

Using the Pyrrhic Victories (page 109) option, a table is given linking Level of Victory to State of Adversity.

Now I am not sure how to interpret that, as it seems to make problems in either Simple Contests and Extended Contests.

(Group) Simple Contests
In a (Group) Simple Contest a tie is always a possible outcome.
But a corresponding entry is not given.

It seems the "not getting the prize may be penalty enough" idea doesn't fit so well, as even the consequence of a marginal victory would have been inevitable death!

(Group) Extended Contests
In a (Group) Extended Contest SoA is already determined by the RP points opponents scored against the hero.

So I am not sure, if using the Pyrrhic Victory option ...

(1) .. the SoA resulting from RP scored against a hero would be ignored?
(2) .. the hero would suffer BOTH SoA resulting from RP scored against him AND SoA according to outcome?
(3) .. is not a valid option, as it is meant to be used in (Group) Simple Contests only?

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by mikyra

[David Scott]

4 hours ago, mikyra said:

Augments
Using the Quick Augments (page 104) option it says I should use the augmenting ability divided by 5 rounded up.

QUESTION: Does this mean I convert masteries  to score points first?

So for example an ability rating of "1 W 2" would grant an augment of +9 ?

1W2 = 1+20+20 = 41

41 / 5 = 8 and a bit, so +9

so yes.

in my games, I alway get players to keep their scores as numbers without masteries. This really speeds things up.

[jrutila]

On 1/27/2020 at 6:14 PM, mikyra said:

QUESTION: May I make a healing attempt only once?

I would treat the healing contest just like any else: no repeat attempts unless the situation changes. Maybe time advancing is counted also.

Given the abstract nature of the system you can go quite wild with the healing ability. Just frame the (healing) contest so that it makes sense.