Erol of Backford

There is a scenario Hell Hound (TotRM 15 p.15) which could be linked to your Jaclal and would be part of cleansing the bog, the whole Resurrecting (or not) Genert story line or at least bringing the river back to life as a continuation of the River of Cradles... I've been wanting to do this story line involving several sets of ruins with hints of ancient Egyptian flair. Who to have better build old ruins than the Mostali? Did they make the bodies of the Gold Wheel Dances like Hugo (example) and did some divine power breath life into them? Are sorts of sorcery, form set gold, fire, etc. Possibly in the deep basements of Sun Wheel Ruins there is an assembly line... maybe they are similar to the Silver Statue in some ways? Mostal made the Sun Wheel Dancers and Lokarnos brought them to life? Doesn't the Silver Statue turn an old Dwarven ruin into a new refreshed town or something? This would be a weird twist, that the metallic statue at Casino Town was a Gold Wheel Dancer as well? So now we have gold, silver and copper automatons given spirits by various divine entities... and a Jackal idol which must be a demigod in some sort of inanimate state something like Baroshi?

Could be a label on Bab's Beer! I agree and so any subterranean passages, warrens, grottos, etc. would still be there. Need to map out a bit of the Redrock Caverns, and other sample below, expand that with maybe a tributary of the Styx (not unlike the Toe Hole) that runs both as a spring (maybe like the geyser on Ogre Island or Only the Old One Old Faithful) to the top of the Plateau and some of which runs to the underworld. This could be the spring water they use in making the beer along with blood of course. Actually some of the real mapping of the Cave of the Winds, Wind Cave, etc in Colorado could be a great starting point for what is under Axe Hall... along with all the other old Rune Quest scenario cave complexes... Who knows maybe it links to the lower areas of Snake Pipe Hollow somehow? It'd be interesting to see a company of Bab's Babes suddenly appear in the Chaos areas of the Hollow

Thus the glass blowing as taught by Dwarves at or before the Dawn. GtG Lead: They invented plumbing, and later developed glassblowing. They work closely with the Quicksilver Dwarves. Lead Dwarves also specialize in making seals and wards to prevent entrance or to block off forbidden areas. GtG p.256 Wine, grain, gold, jewelry, bronze weapons, glassware, luxury goods, feathers, cloth, silk, dyes, and spice are traded from across the world... So there is good reason that there are black glass craftsmen working atop the Plateau or we'll play it that way and they'll have square bottomed beer bottles? Not related but I assume Dwarves like beer...

Creepy but fun! Mushrooms and roots... not citrus likely but wouldn't a large temple tend to also be somewhat able to support itself? I still think of pools of goop that grow vegetation for sustenance, some elves for gardening, well protected of course from the trolls, they are also BG initiates. Maybe the staff asks the PC's to run to Munchrooms and bring plants and or Dark Elves to assist with the garden or cavern food growth. IIRC there is a huge Chaos Garden which grows more than enough food for denizens in Shadow on the Borderlands. Giant mushroom blood soup with onions and other roots. The trolls want that with meat of any type thrown in. How many at Ax Hall, I'd guess 400-500 including tent village? Pilgrims would add another 100-250 depending on season and day. That would be another rabbit hole and another thread. We avoid healers for instance our Basmoli was raised at the Paps and learned some basic healing skills before departing and our party leader, the Vingan was to have been a Chalana Arroy healer but decided that violence is always an option after learning some basics... I agree, think on it, the Shadow Plateau is about the same height as the Blue Fox Hills or Rich Post. In the clips below the Shadow Mesa (it's a mesa isn't it) might look like this from say Duck Point but yes much much greener. The sand would be removed and given to the "glass blower craftsmen" who use imprisoned Lodri to create some of the most exquisite obsidian sand blow glass in all of Glorantha. Ha, a new reason to come to Ax Hall besides Blood Beer. But the Blood Beer does come in square bottomed bottles for more economical packing which also pays homage to the Earth Mother via its shape. Yes, yet another rabbit hole: https://www.beachcombingmagazine.com/blogs/news/west-indies-treasure-trove-of-black-glass Someone had mentioned a scenario near Geos by the Marsh where vampires stole the beer shipments? Does anyone recall as that would be something we could use if there is a source? Still also trying to find a copy of the of the old scenario Into the Wasp's Nest...

OK, I can work with that. I don't see it, I suppose looking at clouds does that, some people see the pig and others do not... (I am laughing as I know what you mean but...) It's a weird pig or at from what I know of pigs in the US Midwest. maybe not, but this one might be a snail or a turtle, a VW Bug? LOL, I am still using your early stuff from when you started writing for Glorantha. Waertagi submersible sea dragon car... Thank you for a great detailed (as always) outline as at the start of this thread we had 2 names and a rough population.

But she rides shotgun for the fertility earth mother, etc... she respects life for sure and only takes it from those who don't deserve it any longer... I am guessing.

Not at all but there could be some guarding the "temple complex" as it is surely not just one structure but an area or so we'd end up with that. Keep the pesky trollkin away for sure.

Rather than eat up the Pavis thread I thought this would be a good place to get more detail reasoning that the copper people and the Gold Wheel Dancers have some things in common... By Soltakss (sorry not sure how to quote from other threads without copying the entire thread) ...where they gained copper limbs and became Earth Children (the GWD's are fire children?) Not much to tell, really. They found an old, ruined idol in the Wastes and realised that putting a body part into its mouth meant that the mouth snapped shut, biting off the body part, but when they pulled back the body part was intact but made of living copper. They all had a go, of course and gained copper arms and legs Nobody dared put their vital locations into the mouth. Whenever they met people of the Earth, for example Oasis Folk, they could claim to be Children of the Earth, for who else had living copper limbs? Eventually, it became important in the Resurrecting Genert thread. One Adventurer gained an Earth Boon on a HeroQuest and asked to be entirely copper. He then blew a Copper Trumpet that awakened an army of Copper Warriors, which had a bit of a catch-22 in that the trumpet could only be blown by a Copper warrior and the Copper warriors were buried, like the Terracotta Army, so he got around that quite nicely. A lot of the threads in the campaign were intertwined, which is how I like it. Curious where it was located for you in Prax of the wastes? What sort of idol, jakel, reptile or maybe some sort of giant snake so as to be related to the Earth Cult? Did they repair the copper limbs when they were damaged and when they bled was it... what was it? LOL They are like Gold Wheel Dancers but made of copper? Makes me wonder how did the GWD's come to be, were they around in the God's Time as there were some, maybe 10 or so at the Dawn. Maybe there is an idol deep down in the subbasement 15 at the Sun Wheel Ruins that connects or nearly connects to the Underworld and Lodri is there... this could surely go somewhere but don't wish it to be to God Learner like their birthing machine like on Barren Island in TotRM 10...

Any wealthy city has 2nd homes for the wealthy... logical idea and like Capri. some of my first thoughts, not large settlements but small ones doing smuggling as well as a little bit of coastal raiding... I will stick with sheep, pigs belong in Ockless, near Ivory Plinth or by Red Eye's haunt for me. Recall some pig-broo in Troubled Waters, they can stay in Prax? Where does the pig myth come from? This is great information, add some scenarios and NPC's and the book is ready! Sorry, was falling asleep I think! It was Mr. Barran the Monster Killer I was saying could be looking for Nee-Gatta Norican Giant - Gnydron I like the idea that the PC's meet up with Mr. Barran before the Strangers in Prax scenarios. These islands could be the palace and the Norican Giant could be related to the Sea Cave unpublished portion somehow, was tainted there and it happens to be near Karse and or these islands, hidden away. The location is still TBD for this campaign. This is a nice add. I keep wanting to turn them into halflings but my childhood reading always goes back to Bilbo's parents drowning so it doesn't fit with as a duck substitute... unfortunately. This map seems cleaner, more clear than some others of the same vintage, thank you Mr. Scott! Would be nice to be able to get a full composite map to date. Would be nice mounted on some foam board and hung on the wall...

Yes, Nose-biter, famous and free-willed. I wonder if the High Priestess commanded Nose-biter to be subservient to a rune level if it would do so? Nakasa There is a huge waterfall running from some river or lake up there just south of Axe Hall. It obviously has a natural spring coming up inside the brewery. If it's an Earth Related temple you bet your Bab's Booty there is fertile soil or something else comparable up there, hydroponics of sorts with decaying butchered carcasses in some sort of organic cesspool of tatsey sludge? Maybe mushrooms as well.

Understood, as you mentioned 15kg+ a day, trollkin hunch Monday, left leg Tuesday, etc. If they come from the Lunar Empire I assume they understand New Pelorian at a low level but how do they communicate themselves, maybe they speak Auld Wyrmish to each other? Both are a good bit larger than hippogriffs, by say 5-7 SIZ points. Griffins seem a lot more intelligent as equal to humans... One note from Strangers in Prax was that Wyverns are able to learn spells if taught but hippogriffs do not show a stat for INT in the Bestiary nor in Pegasus Plateau? Are Wyverns able to join a cult. Let's say they had an INT of 10-12 on the high end. Would an Orlanthi cult let them join if they had a sponsor? Hadn't thought about flying mounts as being initiates but surely highly intelligent Griffins would join cults possibly, IIRC they sometimes visit the Sun Dome in Prax.

So 2 large hogs a month or 4-5 trollkin.

Wondering if you were to somehow befriend a wyvern and it became your mount, how much food does it need each day under normal activity. How many pounds of meat and how much water. Let's take a crocodile as an example, these carnivores are capable of eating wild pigs, deer, kangaroos and even cattle or wild buffalo... Looking at Nose Ring and his mount, guessing Albus is about the same size. Knowing Albus is much more active than a lazy saltwater crocodile I'd assume it eats much more frequently. Guessing maybe half a large pig or 2-3 trollkin a month? They are not as meaty. Sorry if this has been discussed before but the thought as to feeding mounts and doing other mundane daily events usually have not been focused on as sewing your ripped loincloth or washing them are not usually leading to MGF. Well unless you are playing an Eurmali? Any input sensical or not is appreciated.

Noticed County of the Isles. Didn't know it had a name or was a thing. GtG County of the Isles: These islands were traditionally governed by a companion of the Governor-King of Heortland. It is now a pirate stronghold... but we are starting our campaign at 1600 and Rollo Ortosso will surely be stopping if there is something to trade, sheepskin anyone? There do not seem to be major settlements on the islands, no named towns or cities. Are they mostly Orlanthi fishermen with a few headers thrown in, settled in scattered little hamlets with maybe a bootlegger gang or 2 hidden away on the less travelled coastal areas? With only 2k population average for each island its about 400 inhabitants give or take each. This spread out over about 20-25 square miles makes for a about 32 acres per person. If we guess 6-8 or more Hearths per Steading the rural population density goes down even more. Again if there is good grazing we may have a few sheep or cows being herded here. Less raiding from the neighbors as they are 10 miles away by sea. Could be pirates would be an issue, but not as much an issue say 1600 ~ 1610? I like the idea of using a take off of the river settlements in Sandheart 01 as a basis. Reading through Seapolis again beckons the add of a few sea trolls, a few groups of newtlings and maybe a turtle nesting area, mermen caves? Who knows maybe the Baron comes here to find the These islands may have some hills but not likely more than a few 100' I am guessing? Are they like islands in Ireland or more like Mediterranean coast, I am guessing more Mediterranean as several seasons take temperatures to the mid or upper 20's based on Nochet temps and that these islands are a little south of there. If a steading is 8-12 persons with anywhere between 50-250 persons at these imaginary hamlets there'd be 2-3 per island in or at the closest thing to a bay for a harbor or so I am guessing. Likely a few small lakes on the islands, again they are about 20-25 square miles each. The marsh south of Vizel and east of Casino Town likely have giant insects and a few chaos baddies as no one goes there much but newtlings would be there most likely. Has anyone done adventuring on these islands, I suppose the old scenario Sea Cave could be hidden away on one of these gems easily enough or even Nee-Gatta!? Better call the Mr. Barran!

Maybe puffer fish wound be a good export from Backford to Nochet slightly tainted... they actually explode and the spines/quills shoot out and poison you? They could be used in assassination plots in Nochet or Boldhome... put the fish in a pot and it explodes while being cooked... it must be eaten fresh so its kept alive... explodes on death chaos feature. They could also be a rare stone artifact from the Stone Wood for jaded rich clients... lots of opulences in Nochet that the Caprati would be wanting to make a profit on?

So having them over for diner and having them for diner are one in the same with the trolls even near Axe Hall. I assumed there'd have been some sort of mutual non aggression pact like Russia and Japan during WW2, until the end of the war of course. Don't trust and want their territory but bigger fish to fry elsewhere or more likely too much effort for not much territory? We will likely run with some trollkin (value trollkin of course) that are helpers and or "slaves" who work for the BG's and so avoid being food trollkin or such an abusive environment. Wait, do BG drink trollkin blood or use it for beer? I love the old QA session write ups... some of those old Lore Auctions are pretty good and the answers were only a dollar, besides when they asked what the God Learner's secret was after which they were charged the dollar and didn't get an answer... funny! In the Temple of the Wooden Sword thread there is a lot of info, it stated somewhere in one of the links that she had taken a troll love or was it 2? I was guessing she was close friends with this Taksag guy... Trollpak p.52-55 - She (Naimless) was seemingly with the first party of Humakti to raid Sazdorf. She accepted the challenge of Taksag to a duel, he gave her a "filthy skin of blood beer and a few coppers" when she bested him to first blood in their Humakit duel. This was 1611. Taksag left Sazdorf with Naimless, initiated and was given his first sword by Naimless. The payout had blood beer involved so makes me think there must be something that the brewers from Axe Hall the trolls in and on Shadow Plateau get together for, have a festival? What would a troll and BG Octoberfest be like? Lots of drunk nude people trolls and BG's wearing chaps!? Too funny. Babeester Gor fest, Babfest, Babeestfest... Gorfest? This is really good... assuming there is an Esrola-Argan Argar / Norinel-Kimantor husband-protector relationship... are there sources for Argan Argar being a protector? Might use even if not. Thanks for that Alex. Another thing on the elevation change, you are right, it's not terrible with mules and or insects for beasts of burden, I guess, Andrew's Glacier was about a 2800' change and we did it in 6 hours. I was just thinking it wasn't something to do once a week? Like hoping over to the market to get some bread. Maybe there are earth elemental powered elevators on the side of the Plateau or in cored tubes with platforms pushed up hydraulically via this magical river inside the Plateau which may not be there like a lock and dam with keyways? I suppose though, that'd be much too dwarflike for a troll area but maybe these "elevators" have been around since closer to dawn? GTG Obash Broos-Smasher: A dark troll warleader from the Shadow Plateau, whose magical guardian is a petty storm god. A Shadowlord of Argan Argar, Obash does not denigrate humans who also worship the god. He and his clan claim ownership of the roads to Dragon Pass, and often raid north into Sartar, and against Lunar convoys as well. He may or may not be a Earth protector? Noted the road running from Axe Hall, there must be some sort of low angle switchback road carved into the side of the plateau like maybe at Zion canyon?

I am really curious... do tell, maybe a new thread?

They dig human woman? Again Naimless had troll friends... Does BG forbid non humans to join? Maybe there are some troll females in the ranks as most troll warriors, that I've seen are males, possibly a female troll BG initiate would be a fun change? I agree to the less coming and going as who wants to do a 2.000' elevation change to say hello? That is unless there is some sort of magic boat that climbs falls or a river that is a branch of the Styx the flows upstream to the top? Why do people stay in a relationship that really isn't good for them?

Female Great Troll Axe Maidens, bad ass for sure.

I think this was discussed in the Backford thread a while back. Pink salt from the newly developed salt pans, oyster sauce and of course fresh and dried salmon. I'll look into the demon fish Are there pandas in Glorantha and if so should there not be a jack-o'bear panda? Not related to the Syphon but could come out of the Print, maybe a bear with an eagle or hawks head but a bit oversized for the bear body it is shouldered on? Thunder Rebels p.228: Varanorlanth caught Sashaka the Devil Fish using Dursela’s stinger as hook, Fa’s sinews as a line, Grar’s heart as a plumb, Iti’s feathers as a lure, and Rurudram’s carapace as a boat. Might be it could be used as a Hero Quest to gain powers associated with hunting, fishing, boating and crafting. Its a nice rabbit hole of course. Possibly any fish caught while on the quest would fetch a 10 fold price or actually be a devil fish of sorts... a fish that spits napalm gelatin which if harvested may be used for all sorts of nefarious Caprati schemes... Nochet: Queen of Cities: The demented underworld of Nochet wants weird fish... Is there a Chinatown of sorts in Nochet? Of course there is: Little Kralora. I see H60. The Helamta Stores. Hall Serdrodayo maintains this set of warehouses at the southern end of the Long Dock. As ships from Handra and Kralorela frequently dock at this end, the warehouses (including H60a and H60b) often hold goods from or bound to those distant lands. H61. Temple of the Rich Twins. Where is H73. Gems of Ornate Indulgence? Back to Backford and hellspawn. Other sorts of hell spawn could also appear, octopus, eels, almost anything, a rubber tie... (how to explain a tire).

Yes, from the original map, no plateau at all... just a few hills. Who didn't use that in the 1980's games.

Our boy Rollo is all over that. He's got a shuinjō from the Caprati to move dried fish from Backford to Nochet. Rollo is from Trade Talk 12 p.13 They traded wine for salt with the tribesmen somewhere near Vent from their shoreline saltpans and then went to Backford to salt the fish (salmon) swimming up the Syphon that the Strom Bull's were pulling out with nets. Every fish that gets through feeds a broo? This would have been followed by salted fish back to Nochet from Backford. If they can get the salt pans established at Backford they can keep the wine and use their own salt on the fish. I am guessing that Rollo would use the wharves designated as Caprati if they came to Nochet as we have Mr. Ortosso working for the Caprati all around the Bay. (I have decided his name was originally Oranaeo, from but he changed it slightly so he's not known to be of that house. With the name Oranaeo he does have ties to the Great Temple at Ezel... and he likely runs a little gem smuggling on the side? Also I see the House Oranaeo is somewhat between the Caprati area and the Knowledge Temple... need to sort out how the Caprati and Oranaeo are working together... I see the Du Tumerie's becoming jealous and setting up a smuggling ring and or a small pirating enterprise to thwart the Caprati advances...

But the Lunars happened... This was great, thank you all.

Unless they wished to plunder Refuge or Casino Town but I see your point.

So looking and thinking more parts of the Axe Hall picture take form and color: Jaja had suggested in another thread one might use the Redstone Caverns from TrollPak as a potential source of inspiration for what's under the Plateau but for Axe Hall to survive and prosper they must get along with the trolls and or trollkin pretty well, 26,000 trollkin in and on the Plateau, I think Mr. Richard noted? That is unless the trolls are just piss scared of the ax maidens, their alligator porcupine dogs and stay away? Guessing there would be some Argan Argar traders, lots of trollkin servants or slaves. Maybe they are free trollkin like those with Gonn Orta. Of course there would be many Nakasa guard dog/alligator/hedgehog/lion demon things. Hairy, striped, spotted with reddish scales and croco heads. With sharp pointy teeth like the rabbit from the Quest for the Holy Grail. Don't forget the needle quills.. and the roar that makes men and trolls pee their pants... Axe Hall is Babeester Gor's biggest holy place. She there struck down Ovodaka there but was it on the God's Plane or the actual Shadow Plateau in God's Time? Not much on this Ovodaka character, they are the Last Guardian, a demon god of death, underworld and darkness, they get Babeester Gor's victim's who go under the God's World hell? Makes me think there are torture chambers in the temple undercity where men scream out in terror as parts of their bodies are slowly cut and peeled away... I would hope that one of the spells she gets from Orlanth would be Command Air Elemental and or Fly as it'd be a real biyatch to get up to the top of the plateau. There may be a secret river, branch of the Styx that flows upstream as the Syphon but inside the Plateau to the top which then flows off in the nice waterfall at the west side visible from Nochet. When the wind is cold in storm season there might be snow up there as the dew point would be low but do temperatures get down to 32 if that is freezing in Glorantha? What does it look like warrior women who don't hate men just ones who abuse women and do things to Earth temples... Would the temple be part or mostly submerged which seems to be the case with a lot of places inside the Plateau. Just guessing the Shadow Plateau is about 2,000' above the surrounding areas base on contours, the site is shown as a ruin on the AAA map but its described as the largest Babeester Gor temple... I am curious if there are male prostitutes there, even troll ones? There is some evidence that Naimless had a few troll lovers, possibly 2 at once, not sure where I read this but it was insinuated IIRC... The detailed Shadow Plateau map posted by Mr. Richard is from: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/the-shadow-plateau/ I wonder if there is a Shadow Plateau Gazetteer out there somewhere? A pic of the lava flow near Cedar Breaks, which if you haven't seen, is worth stopping at to look down into if you are near Zion... its about as deep as the Shadow Plateau is high. The great partial pic of the western side of the Shadow Plateau (GtG p.656)shows some towns and villages, one of which might be Valadon? A detail zoom shows the throne and likely to the right, looks like ruins... maybe a few taller structures and some sort of mound? Do any potions made from vanquished foes blood act like strength or healing, simple energy drinks? Does the obsidian dust form a clay which could be Orlanthi woad with magical properties? There must be a few Tricksters there who are looking for a cheap date, take advantage of the tipsy Babeester Gor babes? I bet there is a trollish grog shop up there either in or next to Axe Hall to let the maidens relax a bit or to simple have a night cap after a hard days work with their axes?