Erol of Backford

Not liking the Caprati have Lunar ties, not at all. Will need to change that a bit that is unless only Elena is tied and her husband isn't important. I am interested in the PC's somehow getting close to the Black Philosophers so they may find a shapechange to troll spell... keep going back to trollball and Mr. Erekanst the Humakti member of the Kobakuruum from the Wyrm's Hold scenario. Guessing there is a link to the Arkati via the Black Philosophers... if not will develop one.

So you impersonate trolls, fight Gbaji's minions and attempt to heal then her fight Gbaji's minions again...

Please make suggestions as to how one might get a teaspoon of Mistress Race Troll tears. Maybe there is a Hero Quest to where one of them are sad? What makes a troll cry?

Seems like the book of monsters and or the necronomicon? But surely when they are looking for information they must be tied to one faction somehow... it would behoove them to be unless being neutral is more their style, allowing them to approach any faction equally? This is what I am thinking, and any spell could be slightly different depending on who taught, inscribed or cast it? I like being able to find bits of a grimoire and the PC studies it or takes it to their favorite scholar to try to piece together the missing sections. It could cause something to go very wrong, backfired spell if you will but could be enjoyable to roleplay?

...but not permitted to govern but only assist with administration? Sounds like a somewhat snooty social class structure in play? Dart wars anyone? Read Prisoners of Geography last year, was interesting, it more or less calls out Russia looking for a fresh water port, seems like the Lunars no? The Giants trying to secure a river way for their children? Something like China wishing to secure water flow from the mountains? Broken tribes are not a threat as united ones are... curious why the Lunars didn't let the Sartarite tribes continue to fight one another at least those away from the trade routes? I didn't check but looks a bit like Donald Southerland in the video... historical, geopolitical rabbit holes one and all. Maybe that was the God Learner's Secret? Modify Gloranthian spirituality so they were worshipped ove the gods, similar to the untr rich nowadays, they become to thing that it is by their own nature their divine right? I am not knowledgeable about the Western Gloranthian history and so would ask, were there attempts to through out the rigid immobile class system at times? it seems like Loskam doesn't follow this IIRC but the other wizards in Glorantha in the West seem to be the Billionaires of the modern world? I think this is somewhat incoherent rabble but will post anyway... Thank you for the links, might rethink getting Ghosts of Empire and get the Romney book!?

Fine, they will sneak in via stealth in the tunnels... Any color is good, will be great to see it. Bribery works too. What faction is related to the Caprati?! This is all good stuff.

It'll take me a year or so as I read several books at a time, mental condition I guess, can't focus... want to equate Lunars to British of the 1750-1850 period but will have to read the book and a few more like it before it could be thought out. Same as saying Romans were like Lunars. Might be fun to discuss at length... much more reading needed before any attempt is made! HMS Victory for the win?

Feel like I just won a Gloranthian game show, weird monsters of the day... either would be weird enough for Glorantha.

So it 1600-1605, if the PC is a Lhankor Mhy initiate but not affiliated with any faction, they should be able to go in and do some snooping no? What needs to happen for them to do their own research, donate funds for time they intend to spend in the library? Also anyone have an idea as to what grimoires would the Monks of the Cryptic Library have confiscated from the western saintly orders and independent schools? So we will assume its in the "restricted section" unless taken out and hidden in the stacks somewhere for future quick access....

This grimoire necklace was noted to have last been seen on sublevel 3 of the Nochet Library, must have slipped off someone's neck, imported from Kralorela. Atyar the Horned Skull, its powers are not known, its tarnished black silver...

Adding: Jack-o-bear Giant can harmonize and spit pumpkin seeds at quarter damage bonus long range… can knockback. Thank you Mr. Absentia!

Can-do on the name Lewis... Lewis the Jack-o-giant Maybe even cross that with a Walktopus? Not sure where this comes from but maybe it's near the Upland Marsh? Just noticed the eels in the water... wooden floor. Might be an alcove in the Nochet Lhankor Mhy basement!? Not related but had to post the dual trunked biped elephant...

It's like a Jack-o-bear but a giant. I love it. A giant that can harmonize and spit pumpkin seeds that are acidic darts at long range with a hefty damage bonus. He'll be near Snake Pipe Hollow for sure. Just in time for Halloween!

Off the top of my head you'd have some catacombs thrown in, who knows, ghouls, vampires or of course our good friends Thanatar worshipers. I suppose the MOD scenario could easily have one of Drueke's friends living in a secluded part of said catacomb with there own restricted section, maybe even some copies of Drueke's Scrolls... it looks like there is some sort of tunnel leaving the Lhankor Mhy temple basement is it known? Of course there are others we don't know about... (Delaina’s Trace) I see the sewer and aqueduct but what is the tunnel looking thing just above U51 at red arrow... water running below with of course rats or rubble runners? Maybe there is a leader of rats a broo of sorts who heads the sewer rats. They access the library basement to find and steal grimoires, chew books, etc? Where is the EWF section in the Nochet Library?

That is very funny, we had an anything that floats contest in the river near where I grew up, from foam blocks to bathtubs... we didn't have Hungry Jack sized pumpkins however. I would be a really bugger to turn one of those back over if it were to become swamped I imaging. Does Glorantha have Attack of the Killer Pumpkins? I suppose a bunch of baby Hungry Jacks would be interesting?

I was assume something similar but not the rolled scrolls and what not. Not sure I have even touched something even replicating ancient scrolls besides some reprints of some of those which would hang in a tokonoma of a semi traditional Japanese home or temple. I think that the typical large library for Lhankor Mhy would be the same floor plan or nearly so. Perhaps the one in Nochet has longer sides, say 125 or 150' this would reduce the number of basements by 1 or even 2 but you'd still have 3 or even 4 basement stack levels... muhahaha! Yes even in real world books and movies, the original Blade Runner had test replicants as toy-companions, Guardians of the Galaxy 3 had the same as did one of the Toy Story Movies... who doesn't have a copy of the Stitcher Manual!? This is very very funny to me! It's like the book of monsters which will bite your hand or eat your shoe.

I was basing the layout on the Jonstown facility planning model. The only spaces on above ground counted as shelf space were those designated. None of the priest's chambers, the dormitories, the scriptorium, reading rooms, etc were considered "stacks" which is where 98% of the tomes would reside normally or so I am guessing. Even if you added 5% of the stack/shelf space to the total you'd still need 5 basements, which again is a good thing as it makes the stacks into a dark and dangerous place as MOB scenario shows. Another Glorantian rabbit hole which I have grown to love over the years. Still waiting for the hard cover book to come out Sir!

It's like bringing the lost spirit of a Gold Wheel Dancer back to its golden body... I like it. If only you had an idea where to look in the book stacks! Curious with 20M volumes at Harvard, was surprised to see online only 8M at Cambridge... how many scrolls, manuscripts and, I am sure a much lesser number of actual books might be at Nochet Library? Messing around with numbers there are about 19 miles of book shelf to hold 1M books. (read about the main harvard library building having 57 miles of shelf and could hold about 3M books) Assuming older Gloranthian books are much larger say only about half that number or less could be shelved per mile? Guessing 40 miles of shelf for 1M books, say 25,000 older books per mile. We'd need 16 miles of shelf space to house that that lore. 6.4 miles for 400k tomes... 33,792' of shelf. I am guessing that each wing of the Nochet Library is about 80-100' in length, assume the main center hall is about 110' of wall space on 5 sides less 15-20' for doorways. Based on the Jonstown Library in the Sartar Companion, the main hall is 90' of wall space and 16 shelves high rather than 10. Add the other 2 wings for dangerous items and overflow we get about 3,690LF of shelf space above ground. Unless we are using magic to store books and documents or they are on the other side somehow? Knowing that Asrelia doesn't have spells that work like a bag of holding or Felix's bag...how are they compressing the shelf space or are the basement stacks actually on the other side? Either way we'll need a few basements to get 400,000 tomes in here. If the basements are full floor plates with floors 12-15' high we'd get about 1500LF of shelf per wing with the center adding enough to get you to 5,000LF per floor. You'd need 6 basements at say 15' per floor. The library's basements would be 90' below grade. Some creepy stuff could go on down there and there must be spaces like the library in the book Name of the Wind... need a good bit of magic to prevent fires and or keep humidity manageable. Continual light spells Nochet Queen of Cities p.35: The scribes have accumulated and carefully preserved hundreds of thousands of volumes... Seems like between 400,000- 700,000 books/scrolls/manuscripts were at the Great Library of Alexandria... so the Nochet Library is likely equivalent to that of Alexandria? How many hidden grimoires or pieces of them would be in 400k documents? Of course this is all different if somehow the sublevels are square but that doesn't seem to go with Lhankor Mhy? Also the MOB scenario Getting of Wisdom makes more sense if there are 5-6 subbasments... lots of strange things could happen down there. Its even possible that a doorway the the actual Lhankor Mhy library is hidden down there in plain sight?

Reading this thread today has helped me make up my mind to purchase Ghosts of Empire... I was going to read the Mitt Romney book next but this must be better.... Somehow this made me think of the character Joerg linked that Martin Laurie posted in the past, "an extreme Humakti by the name of Onslaught in the old days of the Digest who had the charming feature of having iron teeth (much like Richard Kiel in those Moore Bond movies)." Not illicit powers so much as a power gamer PC who's lowest attack or parry is his bite which is 160%!? Most attacks and parries are over 200%. I don't know much background but assume he joined the Berserker and was one of his lieutenants? I don't think we had any character long term who had more than 2-3 stats over 100% gained through normal game experience in many years of gaming. Some came from Yelmali gifts to 100% but I don't recall any over say 110-115. Those were the power PC's in the old days in our campaigns. https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/GloranthaDigest/vol02/3103.html The 1999 scenario by Peter Maranci To Kill a Monster seems to have been prescient:

GtG says its in Sog City, is housed in the vast fireproof Library of the Ivory Tower. Makes me recall the old movie Name of the Rose. I suppose that's another great scenario possibility in any of the Sartar, Heortland or even the Nochet Libraries? Have any of the great libraries burned in recent history? IIRC the Nochet library was sacked and plundered but it didn't burn? What are the chances to find lost or hidden grimoires in the deep basement stacks of the forbidden section of the Nochet Library?

One would assume that all his friends were also illuminated after a time. I suspect if any happened to be cave trolls (maybe one had a high INT) they'd no longer detect as chaotic being illuminated? Say one of these Arkat friends troll or not was hit with a chaotic feature during the battles against Nysalor and they were illuminated, the feature taint make would not make them detectable as chaotic because of the illumination? IIRC, in the Red Cow material some children are born as Ogres? They are killed if discovered or am I remembering incorrectly? Why do trolls not kill the cave trolls who detect as chaotic, especially the Zorak Zorani?

So reading an article by Hervé Carteau titled Western Wizardry (Rule 1 Issue 04 p.13) I find that each Grimoire is an independent skill learned as such. Be it a page out of the Abiding Book, a bronze skull, etc. yes non canon but was perplexed by the lead grimoire in the Return to Apple Lane scenario... GtG p.51 & 203 says Loskalmi Man-of-All (right): study magical grimoires…are a mystical order of warrior monks who take vows to serve and defend the community, study magical grimoires… Several questions: Does Glorantha have something like the Grand Grimoire, “a very powerful and ancient magical text that is said to contain forbidden knowledge and dark secrets” or is it basically the Abiding book in Glorantha. Was thinking there might be something like the Necronomicon or an evil God Learner’s book of sorts? Maybe the library in the Barren Island scenario of TotRM 10 has some God Learner grimoire scraps on its shelves? The Book of the Faceless King seems to be a nice Dwarven grimoire and also it seems the Pavis cult possessed a sorcery grimoire that contained a ritual to allow half-elves and also half-Mostali. I thought a Dryad and a human could make a half-elf without special magics but maybe not? Also read somewhere that a five-leaf grimoire is an extremely rare magical object, whose fifth leaf represents a devil. Also known as a Grimoire of Despair: a five-leaf grimoire is created when a mage chosen by a four-leaf grimoire is filled with so much hate and despair that the book is twisted by his own dark emotions. Do we have something like this in Glorantha and if so, what is it? Has anyone gamed seeking and destroying something like this, an evil grimoire? Would a Trickster eating an evil grimoire destroy it? What about throwing it into the void? What would your ability need to be in read/write languages to actually pen or inscribe a grimoire? Along the same lines, in the RQ3 system as long as you had a positive magic modifier you could learn sorcery if you had a teacher. How long would it take for a character to learn to cast a sorcery spell? Is this described anywhere yet in the current game system? Lastly, in the Red Book of Magic it says that certain spirit magic may be offered to initiates as part of ceremonies on cult holy days, otherwise, learning a new spell takes one week of work. If the spell is offered, does it take no time to learn or is it just part of a ceremony or sorts that takes a few hours following the smoking of a pipe or something similar? Lastly for sorcery (residual RQ3) how long would it take for a PC to study and learn the Intensity skill if they had a teacher and a positive magic modifier? For spirit magic its POW x5 for casting…

Not at all, I love it as well as Guinness, especially when in County Tipperary! I just noted that Spaten was since 1397 and as its early 17th century in Glorantha... though the technological level is lower "Bronze Age"... maybe Optimator would be a good character name?

Forgot about them. Seems like trolls in general have no issue with being near them or using them as guard porters, whatever even though they are chaotic.

We'll send out Dalamides and Hazphar of the Lunar Survey Team. They always sort these sort of cartography mistakes. They adhere to the primary design principles of cartography: legibility, visual contrast, figure-ground organization, hierarchical organization, and balance. There shouldn't be many mistakes with Glotanthian map making as they have the equivalent or equivalent of Euclidean Geometry, the world is flat and flight is common or relatively so. I would imagine any models of the Glorantha surface and its features would be quite accurate. Is the basis of measurement meters of feet in Glorantha or does it simply matter which side of the pond you are on? When I think about the Old Wind Temple, being close to Dundealos lands, the Survey Team is slightly stymied as the clouds and winds hinder their work greatly. They cannot seem to get an accurate depiction of where the Old Wind Temple actually is...