David Scott

You are correct, Praxian Yelmalio is not dependant. As I said they come to pay their respects, then go. It's not a cult centre. Correct. This leads in nicely as to how Yelmalio became established with the Praxians. He was there already, rather she was: An altered set. I don't think the geases are standard over the whole of Glorantha. Useless ones would disappear and more relevant one replace them.

I only buy PDFs, hence my shortsighted outlook.

I'm not sure of how many RQ 6th editions are out there in the shops, but it can't be many, they'll soon be gone. Shiny Mythras will take it's place, and a new a shiny Chaosium RuneQuest will be prominent on the shelves. I can't see this ever being a real problem. If they do accidentally buy an old RQ 6th edition, I'm sure they'd like it and could then go and buy the new Chaosium edition as well.

I ran our Snakepipe Hollow playtest with the RQ3 version with no conversion problems. I didn't realise that @Jeff meant I should use the RQ2 version! That was actually all I did Rune points and a passion for some npcs is all I did. Most Chaos creatures had Hate Outsiders :-)

It's in the nature of the land. Cults of Prax tells us that the Paps are all that remains of a great earth temple. Now the complex supports only a few goddesses compared with it's previous age. Aldrya was one of those goddesses, her presence is still there, slough tiny. There are plants in the Wastelands, that need help to live in its now fragile ecology. Aldrya supports that. As an echo of the past, some nomads are born strong in the Plant Rune, worshipping Aldrya is a natural extension of that. There's no way forests can grow in the Wastes, even with Aldrya's help. Tada's Loincloth has been missing since the Dawn, the fertility of the land has gone, and hasn't been replaced. Oakfed helped destroy the forests, but isn't allowed to burn them anymore, Waha sees to that. The plants need all the help they can get, what's there can be maintained, but not expanded. Aldrya in the Wastes is very different to what the elves have: Aldrya is part of the Praxian tradition, so no conflicts with any of the other tradition cults:

@MOB can probably fill you in on a bit more than I can. The Yelmalions interact more with the Garden elves than the nomads likely do. Although there must be some nomad contact as there are about 300 Aldrya initiates and 3 priestesses scattered throughout the tribes and at the Paps.

They've always been there. The base information is in Cults of Prax. There's an appendix with % cult membership per tribe. The new numbers are based on this chart. For some reason this info has been pretty much ignored. I dont see Nomad Yelmalio worship this way. Firstly it's an intertribal society, so groups will be mixed tribe or single tribe. Initiates have no need to visit, but khans certainly do. Using the 1% magic rule there are about nomad 150 light khans. They likely only visit every 5-10 years, like Paps visits. Certainly not as a huge group. This keeps everything manageable. There are certainly prohibitions laid down by Sun County and the nomads for precisely the reasons you mentioned. There is also the security aspect. The outnumbering may cause problems and take overs would happen. And clearly they haven't. All khans including light khans have the prohibition about staying in houses so that would be one reason not to take over. The sables are split in to 5 phratries (once there were more). Two are pro-lunar, one neutral and two conservative. So it's more complicated. I'm not sure Yelmalio sables fought at Moonbroth, they would have been opposing Yelmalio impalas. I suspect yelmalions on both sides sat it out. I don't think that has really changed. There are just a few groups of tolerated nomad yelmalions dropping by every so often. They don't get involved, they pay their respects, do the rituals and go. Yes, stuff has been passing between us. It's important that our info matches, especially with the timeline extending to 1627.

Not in a tales, nor Different Worlds. The only places I've not looked is WF11 & 13, I pretty much have access to searchable text versions of all published products and Greg's notes. As for Cons, may have come up at a lore auction, but I don't recall.

I'm not too worried about the accuracy of a 1913 book of folklore, as I said: This is about inspiration not accuracy. If the spirit is a house spirit, it can still be used as a fetch, likewise an evil spirit twin of a person as a fetch would be ideal for a Thed shaman.

I would agree with this. It's worth looking at the origin of the word "Fetch" as in real world shamanism, it doesn't really exist. Generally speaking the shaman has a number of different helpers, who may perform a singular activity or many activities depending on their role. They may be of different forms, ranging through animal, humanoid to anything you can imagine and beyond. Depending on culture, these have different names; Power animals, spirit helpers, tutelary spirits, ancestors,etc. Some specific names exist in some cultures - A Book of Folklore by Sabine Baring-Gould (1913) tells us the origin of the word "Fetch": http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/bof/bof07.htm Fetch is specific to Ireland, and further on in the (short chapter) it talks of All of these are useful in describing the helper spirits of the shaman. I use this all the time - the spirit husband, spirit wife, Spirit spouse. This is what i'm intending with Praxian shaman. Wikipedia covers the concept well here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_spouse Have a look through sacred-texts.com and you'll find loads of useful material.

There are about 14700 Yelmalio worshippers amongst the Praxian tribes. The population of Sun County is only 20,000, given that half are children, the remainder is half men. That gives a maximum of 5000 Yelmalio initiates. The nomads outnumber them about 2:1. The structure of Yelmalio is different amongst the tribes - they have only Light Khans, no priests. So the Yemalio temples are their major worship temples. Yes they are welcome, and yes there are ancient pacts in place that prevent them overrunning the land. Look when the Praxian lords of Sun County ended for when these pacts came into place. Numbers for the interested: 7800 - Impala tribe 163 - High Llama tribe 5625 - Sable tribe 400 - Bison tribe (No Morokanth other than PCs:-) 225 - Agimori tribe 90 - Rhino tribe 90 - Ostrich tribe 40 - Unicorn tribe (No Baboons other than Melo Yellow and PCs) 158 - Bolo Lizard tribe 34 - Zebra tribe 42 - Pol-Joni tribe (No Basmoli or Newtlings other than PCs:-)

@Jeff also has the same idea and we can't find it.

Thanks for all the pointers. We know less of Jaldon than we think - there are massive gaps in his history (not including the ones where he doesn't do anything as he's dead.) I'm looking at where he first dies and the curse that prevents him returning to Prax. I think Jaldon's Wrong River is where he's first killed and cursed. There's a well know dislike of between rivers and Waha due to the treatment of the Founders river. There are two versions of the myth - a pro-water version for Water rune khans (mainly high llamas) and anti-water version for the others. Jaldon was bison tribe, and I suspect the EWF magician drew him into a version of Waha versus Water heroquest and killed him. Hence Jaldon's wrong river.

Can anyone ( @Joerg, @metcalph, @M Helsdon to name but a few) point me towards a source for the name of this river. I'm working on Jaldon's history at the moment and am looking as to why this is so named. For those unfamiliar with it, the references are: Gazetteer of Dragon Pass (extended PDF) Map on page 28 Sartar Rising tell us that The Broken River is in A2 of the map.

We are both right! Page 53 has Moon. Page 409 has Dying phase and Spirit Rune. The section on page 53 is about Praxian societies and Page 409 the Lunar society. This is fundamental to the society, Praxians can approach it from the Moon rune. Lunars on the other hand are tied to phases. The School is effectively a subcult of Jakaleel from the lunar perspective, hence the difference (I went back through the edits on Jakaleel that we did at the time). Jakaleel is complex as a Seven Mothers subcult - members are treated as members of her Immortal cult. Any experimental subcults/societies are directly attached to the main cult. The same happens with the Sartarite equivalent that also uses the Seven Moons form.

You're correct. But each will be their own standalone version of BRP. They are not designed to be compatible. It's a step back to the old days of Chaosium. Each setting with its own separate engine. Granted they do have similarities and you can mash them together if you like, but it's not a factor in the design. I'm not sure that the BGB and Worlds of Wonder were ever great sellers, those that want generic systems to tinker with are likely already doing it. Personally I like RPGs with the system and world in the same book. Bringing the new version of RQ into line with CoC7, BGB, RQ 6ed, etc. just seems a bit pointless, and a lot of effort for no gain except for those who want a grand unified system (perhaps a handful of people). You are not compelled to buy or use the new products, and those with established groups are unlikely want the hassle of converting. If you are concerned, stick with what you know works and don't buy it. As @soltakss points out, sales will tell if the product is successful.

@simonh I'm pretty sure I've heard Greg speak about the subject at cons as well. It's probably helpful to look at where they come from - Irish Mythology (I'm sure that's where Greg got the idea from). The Irish word is geis, the Scottish word is geas whose spelling we seem to be more familiar with. If you look through the Irish Myth cycles you come across the mentions of geis and its context. Myths and Legends of the Celtic Race by Thomas Rolleston (1911) has this helpful definition: There's an element of honour that @Jenx mentions, which I suspect is near the mark. I don't think it has direct rune connections. As noted in this definition, they are akin to Tabu which appear in the game as Taboos for spirit charms and also Lunar strictures. Yemalio and Humakt are "Early" cults in the development of Glorantha, Greg likely thought it would be cool to include geases into the cult system somewhere.

Here's the Shaman initiations for the main Praxian Shaman paths, you can easily work out any minor ones from the following patterns. I see this initiation as solo for the assistant shaman. I do them outside the game with the player as it's pretty boring for the others sitting around. The entry back into the game is the rebirth point. There are no rolls for any of this, generally speaking the outcome should be a new shaman, unless there is a very good reason for the Hero to die! The initiation for Waha Shaman is on page 170 of HeroQuest Glorantha. The remaking section was removed for space: Eiritha One difference in the outcomes: Daka Fal, initiation only has two outcomes: Help woman's is similar to Daka Fal's:

I'm on my way back from uk games expo so don't have my references with me, so... apprentices don't have any form of fetch until their shamanic initiation. That's what's awoken with in them at the initiation. The initiation simply put is where Bad Man tears the candidate apart, the assistant's spirits collect the pieces and take them to the horned man who reassembles them. If they have less parts than normal, they die, the same they can never become a shaman, but survive, more the extra part is their fetch. details on the different shaman paths to follow.

That should be in HeroQuest Glorantha (it's the Prax book where the text can from), Practitioners can take one step into the spirit world (so they are very localised), Shaman's assistants can enter fully and take a few people (including non-spirit practitioners), Shaman enter fully, can take more people and have a protective fetch. Some spirits can corporate into the Middle World, but not all. As a practitioner, you get access to the Tradition spirits (spirits with the same runes as the tradition, and those of any spirit society you are a member of. Shaman can get you spirits from their societies, and if Daka Fal, spirits with any runes with a back story. Possibly, but that maybe a bit specialised for a con (might just be me and you :-)

@soltakss Given your RPG/Rune list, you don't seem satisfied with what's out there. So what do you suggest?

Part of the problem with Animism (and the practice of shamanism) is that it's experiential. There's no liturgy or doctrine that specifies what's going to be there ahead of time. It's down to the purpose of your visit to the spirit world as to what will you will meet when you get there. In an RPG, you want to know what's there ahead of time for the GMs sake. So everything you wrote above is true, including the last line. Disharmony in a spirit situation is likely to be caused by external forces. a quarrelsome spirit in a house is likely indicative of something going on, like the breaking down of a relationship between those living in the house. Disease spirits found in a house might be indicative of an illness present in someone, but hidden. A completely out of place spirit might be portend something happening, etc. I've often toyed with the idea of running an introduction to shamanism at cons, but it would take too much con time (I normally run courses over 6 six weeks, one evening a week). An afternoon wouldn't do the subject any justice.

I forgot to mention the other one we use - http://www.ukroleplayers.com Go to the forum and there's a clubs and players section.

I suggest looking at and putting yourself on Nearby Gamers: http://nearbygamers.com It's worked well for our club in West London (http://nearbygamers.com/groups/64nzS-The-Tuesday-Knights)