davecake

You missed an important one Dorastor: Land of Doom, pg 122 So no, that interpretation (which would be a stretch anyway) is explicitly counter to the text. (and same exact text in the 2019 Gods book draft, not just for the Telmori but the Basmoli too) So rather it seems that its intended to be a universal hsunchen principle, including all hsunchen tribes everywhere. Obviously there are other examples of hsunchen intermarrying with humans (the Pendali descendants of Seshnela, etc) but I think the hsunchen special magic is lost in such unions, and some curse may remain. I think it more likely that the House of Sartar is a special example, having been magically adopted as Telmori in Sartars time. Perhaps Sartar used his Larnsting magics to secretly demonstrate transforming into a wolf?

Very different. My current thinking is that, to an extent, to both genders, the power of Earth is somewhat associated with the power of adulthood and social power, IMO, though still more associated with women (for whom it is linked to motherhood) than men (for whom it must be sought out and earned by right behaviour). Earth as the natural, central, element for both genders in society, rather than a gender duality like the Orlanthi or Solars. I don't think there is an Earth goddess for young, unmarried, women, or at least not a major one. Young women are associated more with other deities such as Nyanka. Faranar I think is a cult that women join at marriage, and is strongly associated with the Wife role. She lacks the Fertility powers of Aleshmara, her mother, which also represents her ownership of everything and full social power, which she probably needs to have enough wealth to move out and start her own household to assume. And Aleshmara is the full power of the Earth, head of family, provider of the things that are needed for life, and owner of almost everything. But it's not open to younger women. It may be usual to join Aleshmara when you have an adult daughter? And then eventually, Yanmorla, the primal earth, for old women, when she is no longer part of a nomadic household. She casts responsibility for others aside, settles into full time dealing with the Earth mysteries, including sexual magic for its own sake (without reproduction). Earth is no longer about social power for her. But men or women that do not want to be part of a household, who do not want to be part of the central society, often end up in roles that are associated with other elements - Keraun (Air), Nyanka (Water), Sikkanos (Air), Noruma (Fire). Meanwhile, the 'default' element for men is Fire - Vangono is a deity associated with young batchelor men, and Balumbasta is the 'average guy' god, but more importantly Cronisper is basically the only old mans god - once men step out of a social role, their raw nature is Fire. But a mature and sensible man worships Pamalt, and so embraces Earth powers. The personal might of men might be about fire, but political and social power for men is all about Earth, and one of the central principles of Pamalt and Doraddi society is that social power is more important than personal might. Water is fairly strongly feminine among the Doraddi, too - the only two notable water deities are Nyanka and Tamakderu, both female, and Water is very strongly associated with feminine mysteries, reproduction and birth.

Yes, neither the Cinsina or the Torkani have a traditional right to Stonegate, the Maboder are not a tribe any more and not organised enough to try to take it, and everyone hates the Telmori and is happy to have a bunch of people willing to continue to be the buffer and do most of the Telmori fighting. And the inhabitants of Stonegate may be (largely) Lunar vets, but they aren't current members of the Lunar military or subject to Lunar government command - and many of then aren't Lunars at all. They are better neighbours than the Telmori. Its unstable, but I think they can hang on for a few (fairly unpleasant) years, until the issue comes to Argraths attention.

And Arkat being Illuminated by the elves of Brithos implies that Illumination spread among elves remarkably quickly, far outstripping the speed at which it was spread among humans by Nysalors missionaries. Maybe the elves of Brithos had representatives at the creation of Osentalka who brought the knowledge back with them. It is not strictly their homeland - and was initially quite forest covered, like much of Seshnela and Fronela was, so the elves may have quite outnumbered the Brithini. The Brithini have some sort of agreement with the goddess Britha. Though the Brithini exploit it ruthlessly, she is supposed to have volunteered for it. She may even have made some provision to preserve the elf forests as part of it.

sethI think the Vadrudi tend to basically treat everyone who opposes them the way Storm Bull treats Chaos. Of would if they had the power, as Vadrus did. So now instead they mostly have to skulk around the edge of civilisation, seething with rage that they must restrain much of the time.

It's a bit more complex. The Pentan ancestors are from Pent and thereabouts, but spread across Peloria and conquered most of it (as chariot riders at the time), reviving the Yelm cult and reviving the institution of Emperor, and while they were driven out in the early First Age (at the battle of Argentium Thri’ile in 230), they have always basically regarded themselves as the true rulers of Peloria in exile. There is a bit more to it - the Pentan ancestors also became essentially merged with the rider culture from around Saird and switched from chariots to cavalry, and the Pure Horse Tribe became their priestly caste, which has its own traditions around sovereignty. They aren't exactly an offshoot, the main Kargzant culture appears native to Pent, but the Yu-Kargzant cult and the Pure Horse Tribe (and adopting riding rather than chariots) could be regarded as things that Pentan culture adopted in the period (from pre-Dawn to early First Age) during which they ruled most of Peloria. Pentan and Dara Happen culture had a lot of intermixing and cross over in that period - and have mostly tried to keep very separate ever since, with significant animosity. While there are a few interesting exceptions over the years (the Char-Un in particular), mostly the nomads have always retained great animosity towards the Dara Happens, and this absolutely exploded under Sheng Seleris. Yes. They've just changed their relationship to the Earth, and grown reliant on the Vendref, but most of their traditions are Pure Horse Tribe. The Char-Un are also Pure Horse tribe, with some Lunarisation (and recognition of the Red Emperor as the Imperial Sun Emperor). We know so little about the origins of the Pentan Storm tribes that I don't even know if there is animosity between the Storm and Solar tribes or not - it is possible that the Storm tribes have always been there, and we just haven't known, given how much of what we know of the history of Pent is basically about the Pentan tribes in Peloria.

I agree it needs clarification.

Right, so you are reasoning that lack of information means the default, rather than pointing to a particular statement. So, in my opinion this is because the cult writeup is generic and attempts to cover all the Sun gods, and there may be no gender restrictions for worshippers of Somash or the Ralian Sun Horse. But I don't think Dara Happa or Pent are going to be any less patriarchal - maybe women can be lay members to indicate lineage, I don't know, but I doubt they can proceed to Yelm the Rider or above in those societies, or at least not without some special case. This section has been removed from the latest version, so there's now no mention of male dominance or gender restriction. Yes. Someone probably noticed Yellow elves are all male. I think removing that section is more about correcting that error than deciding that Yelm is suddenly no longer patriarchal everywhere else.

In the RQ3 writeup, it was 2 POW a year, on the High Holy Day. I think that is unsustainable for almost everyone. And applies to priests etc too. It suggests that most merman communities maintain a minor temple, probably from a hard core of fanatics or by swapping priests in and out of the role (and almost everyone being in an associated cult), but sometimes a large number of community members may initiate at once, mostly just to participate in huge community casts of Call Monster. Once the community enemies have been devastated by sea monsters, they let their initiation lapse.

I think of Vadrus as being pure hurricane, not lightning or thunder, just winds well over 100 kph, lifting everything that throwing it around at crazy speeds. Raw violence and power. I am also beginning to suspect that another child of Vadrus, over on the other side of the world, is the Pamaltelan goddess Keraun. She is normally considered beneficial to the inland Doraddi, to home she brings gentle rains, but she is the goddess of the typhoon, and feared as such by most of coastal Pamaltela. Just Pamalt, in his usual way, was able to talk her around to helping him out, without actually making her a good person.

Not usually, the Sevening Rites may be an exception.

This is exactly the sort of thing that hero questing is good for. Go find one of the gods Orlanth stole it from, and he might tell you a way to get it back. Possibly by beating up some Orlanthi deity, but maybe returning to the source. And if you did that, you could even be a hero that teaches the spell to other people. The question is, had any solar hero done this? None I know of. But you can always create one. Not sure about that. Abundant food is a privilege for people that behave and are grateful to big sky daddy. I think grouping everything together as krjalki is an ancient Malkioni thing, but not a modern one. The Malkioni, and possibly the God Learners, I think are the origin of splitting the Devil into two, Wakboth (moral evil) and Kajabor (entropy), though they arguably also think of Entropy as a result of divine error, a fact of the universe that is difficult to correct, but a regrettable one. Possibly both together is what creates Chaos - so Tapping is Entropic, but not Chaotic if used by a Brithini, and obviously Chaotic if used by a Vadeli, who are innately morally Evil, if I may channel Zzabur for a moment. The threat of Chaos was the thing that brought everyone together to cooperate with Pamalt. Vovisibor is the devil and was only defeated when everyone joined in to fight it. Only by everyone working together can Chaos ultimately be defeated, only by following the ways of Pamalt will everyone work together. The failure to defeat Chaos separately (by the Artmali, but also the individual efforts of eg Vangono, Qualyorni, the elves, etc) shows why acting separately will let Chaos win, so you better listen to what Pamalt says. So I think Chaos is always lingering as the big problem, but not quite as directly as it is to the Orlanthi or the Praxians. But I think there is a conception of Chaos being the big awful problem that threatens the world (like it is to the Orlanthi) rather than just the worst consequences of something else (disobedience or rebellion to the Yelmics, Error to the Malkioni, Spiritual Ignorance to the Easterners, etc) The Fonritans don't believe that of course, but that's because they are Chaos corrupted jerks. Ultimately, like almost all the problems of current Pamaltela, it is because the Vadeli are toxic, Chaos enabling, jerks and everything they touch turns to poison eventually.

I agree in general, but it seems to be firmly the case for the Central Genertelan cultures at least. I'd like to see less emphasis on it myself for the West and East at least. It seems to be heading very much towards the main womens gods are Earth goddesses in Pamaltela, even though Pamalt is the main mans deity too. Disappointing, Faranar was the mains womens deity and fairly free of elemental ties in earlier material. Especially the Fertility Rune, she is definitely still a healing deity and ultimately an agricultural one. It is her social power that seems reduced. Dendara really does seem to have a lot of her power hived off into associated deities where Ernalda holds much more of it herself. I hope this will change, but this may well be a conscious decision that Dendara is weak due to being in a sexist jerk society.

That's weird, because drawing on the same source, I saw nothing so definitive. So you might want to narrow it down to a specific statement, or are we drawing assumptions from what isn't said? I don't think Yelm the entity from a God Learner point of view necessarily has strong gender rules, and the writeup does lean that way by trying to cover multiple cultures, but there was nothing in the writeup than implied Dara Happa was not still extremely patriarchal.

Indeed. While I think I am correct in saying that a Luminous Stallion King (or a group of followers) who tried to (effectively) destroy the Feathered Horse Queen as a magical and political institution would be foolish, politically very misguided, and unlikely to succeed, it is absolutely the case that many people in human history have attempted similar efforts that are foolish, politically misguided, and unlikely to succeed. I think such efforts are more likely to be a doomed effort of a group of extremists than a realistic outcome. Which can make for a good story though. What war of conquest are you referring to? The first Feathered Horse Queen had a violent confrontation with the Chief (Esnandrol the Bright Champion), but it seems to have been a rebellion that ended in what is described as a magical duel, rather than a war or even a battle. She killed that Chief, and then made peace with his successor, the rest is politics not war. There is no record at all of religious violence within the womens cults, just some supported her at first and some did not. It's literally exactly how people work. Even in fairly violent societies, many long term changes occur mostly through political means. And that is exactly what is described - the new chief of the Grazers (Endars Stand-up) made a political call that continuing to resist change violently would ultimately fail, and would be horribly costly, so accepted change, and the conservative tribal members had to accept it or rebel against their rightful chieftain. And in large part what I am saying is that you see the Dendara vs Ernalda change as a core belief and worldview issue, and the Grazers do not, or at least not in the same way or to the same extent. Because literally they do not perceive it as a Dendara vs Ernalda issue at all, but a change in the understanding of La-Ungariant and her relationship to the Chieftain, and that is a lesser issue, if still a significant one. In part you are saying this because you have a firm belief about the nature of Dendara that is no longer considered true in Glorantha. The Gods book will say that Dendara and Ernalda are basically two versions of the same cult, though it may be true that they are not quite identical or not quite same entity. The version of Dendara published in RQ3 should be considered essentially superseded. This was a deliberate change by Jeff. After reflection, I pretty much agree with him. Or, alternately, if you think Dendara and Ernalda are distinct and different goddesses that are entirely dissimilar, why do you not treat the issue as La-Ungariant being a third distinct goddess who changes a few details of her associated cults by drawing on a different set of myths? As long as you consider the issue as about two very real and distinct goddesses, one of whom the Grazers barely know or acknowledge under that name, and their own goddess, La-Ungariant, as just a false deity, a misunderstanding, you are effectively saying that the best way to understand what is going on is from an entirely external point of view that assumes the Grazers are deluded. And then you wonder why it doesn't seem to work the way you think it should. There are certainly people around who think, to pick a roughly comparable more modern issue, that women should not have the vote, and have a fair bit of their identity constructed around innate male superiority. There are similarly probably ardent Yu-Kargzant fanatics who think the idea of the representative of Yu-Kargzant sharing power with the goddess is terrible. But most people adopt to the status quo, and adopt their worldview accordingly, and roll their eyes at the views of earlier generations that no longer reflect social reality. For cultural/social stuff like that, you really have to think of La-Ungariant as being separate to either. Dendara might be more associated with textile work (though actually, I think it is far more the other way around, with Ernalda's very close relationship with the Loom House etc), but La-Ungariant is from a culture of nomadic people who live on horse back and get everything they can from horses - there will be less weaving, and a lot more leatherwork. The Grazer women can get the vendref women to produce woven cloth for them. And the most significant magical/mythic changes are in associated cults, which will always differ within the cults a fair bit anyway - Ernalda has different associated cults in Esrolia than in Dragon Pass, especially in practice if not theory (eg Magasta is an associated cult of Ernalda in Esrolia, especially the coast, but I think you'd be hard put to find even an active shrine in a great temple anywhere in Sartar). In general, the biggest difference is that Dendara is a god more for the aristocracy, and Oria etc, the grain goddesses, are far more separated than the land and grain goddesses are from Ernalda in regular worship - separate grain goddess rites without invoking the Earth priestesses are weird in Sartar, but common in Peloria (among the peasantry). But in pre-FHQ Grazer society, they didn't have much use for the grain goddess rites anyway, growing crops was for other people. Dendara also lacks those magic powers about sovereignty in her own rites. She has the Bless Home power, though (not so useful for the PHP unless it also applies to yurts). Their Earth and Healing powers are about the same. Dendara has a closer association with horses, of course, mostly through a close association with Hippoi/Arandayla - even more so with La-Ungariant though (and in Saird, with Redalda). Overall I think the current writeup makes Dendara a bit too weak, but maybe later materials will boost her abilities. Ernalda has a much more powerful set of associated cults, besides the obvious pantheon differences. Ernalda can draw on both her husband-protectors, and the much more integrated and developed Earth pantheon centred around Esrolia. A Dendara priestess is unlikely to ever meet a dedicated Asrelia priestess or Babeester Gor warrior in Dara Happa. But Dendara, besides Yelm of course, has trick card with the Gorgorma cult - they may be sneakier than the BG killers, but I suspect they are every bit as nasty and effective in practice. And I think the Dendara and Gorgorma cults are very close in Peloria - they share temples.

Yes. So there obviously are exceptions. I agree that there was probably a special exception for the House of Sartar, with it being adopted as Telmori ceremonially somehow. And there may be some adoption rite or similar. But it seems likely to be very damn rare, and possibly necessarily magical in nature (such as involving the intervention of a Telmori deity). Well, Your Glorantha Can Vary significantly if you want. But the official write-ups, both RQ3 and forthcoming, say it is considered bestiality and carries the death penalty. Obviously there is some way to get around it, but I don't think is simply a matter of personal preference. The Dorastor RQ3 writeup, for example, says (under spirits of retribution) that it is considered one of the worst possible crimes, worse than murder or cannibalism (which merely merit exile and excommunication) and equivalent to murdering a chief or rune lord, and merits being hunted down and killed, with the magical assistance of Telmor to increase the tracking skills of the hunters. Sure, and I get that in your games players often play pretty fast and loose with significant cult tenets, and no reason you can't find a reason to sidestep the rule for individual situations in this case too (as happened with the House of Sartar obviously), or vary your Glorantha, I'm just pointing out what the cult tenets are.

He requires POW sacrifice annually, yeah, which is unsustainable for normal people. It is unusual. I imagine the actual sea monsters relate to him rather differently, but I don't how how. This is from both the draft Gods book writeup, and the RQ3 writeup. (not counting mermen that humans just perceive as monstrous, like Yssabau, I think they have to do the regular sacrifice thing too) I wouldn't entirely rule out a work around involving sacrifice of sentients to Magasta for particularly nasty merman societies as a possible variation, but it's not in the draft (or any previous) writeup.

Yes. But this would be difficult, as the Feathered Horse Queens are quite powerful and have a much firmer control over Grazer society than the priestesses ever had over previous Pure Horse People society (including her own martial resources like the Hiia Swordsman Humakti), and in all likelihood, it would hugely weaken Grazer society as a whole - they would no longer have the reverence of the vendref, alliance with other Earth cultists including the Shakers, or the magical power of sovereignty over Dragon Pass. So it seems that any Stallion King blessed with any political common sense whatsoever would be unlikely to think it a good idea. That's not at all the Grazer understanding though. The Grazers do not really think of La-Ungariant as being Dendara at all - Dendara is a Dara Happan goddess they barely have heard of, and don't care about (and if they did, would think the Dara Happans had completely misunderstood and perverted, even more than they did Yelm). The Cults book is only going to confuse you further then. But the Gods Book will definitely be making Dendara an Earth goddess rather than a Sky Goddess, with the same Runes as Ernalda. God Learners would say La-Ungariant was Dendara before and Ernalda now, but we know the God Learners misunderstood this stuff quite badly. And the Grazers aren't God Learners. The Grazers think that the Feathered Horse Queen showed that their goddess La-Ungariant was really the true form of this local Earth Queen goddess, and this showed them how La-Ungariant fit into this unfamiliar land. They don't think Dendara went away, was exterminated, etc at all, they'd mostly be 'Dendara who?' They just think that now they understand La-Ungariant better, or at least differently. I mean, still an Earth goddess, still the wife of the king, still the womens goddess and ruler, but now we understand her significance to people who aren't nomadic Pure Horse People, and her relationship to Kero Fin and Ana Gor, which is good, right? Especially as it means these locals understand that she has the right to rule over them now. And the right way to worship her for Pure Horse People is still as the wife of the Sun, just we see that the Pure Horse People are in a foreign land and must behave as one people among many now. But magically, it was successful, and so the FHQs won, and changed the status quo. But almost no one understands it that way at all. She changed the La-Ungariant rites, in ways that drastically enhanced her power and importance both within and without Grazer society. I think in practical terms, no one had to change to be part of a new cult, to re-initiate, to lose magic. They just changed their rites a bit. And naturally, most of the La-Ungariant worshippers (there were no doubt some conservatives who preferred it when their goddess, and all Grazer women really, were less empowered and more subservient), really had no issue with it. There were no doubt political struggles, but its mostly a paradigm shift not a war of extermination. Gradually there are less and less followers of the old way, but largely its because they convert to the new way. Some of them refuse to change, and just get sidelined, or get old and retire or die and then get replaced by a follower of the new way. A few will actively challenge the new way - but they generally lose such contests, or wins are partial and unconvincing and don't change momentum, just slow it a little. The next generation thinks it is bizarre to even want to go back to the old way, the generation after that barely even understands the controversy.

Magasta is a husband-protector of Ernalda too, though. And I think is mostly going to be approached either an ancestor of the local river god, or Choralinthor/local water body of water, rather than as an ancestor of his worshippers directly. There really is not much point in having much to do with Magasta unless you are near a large body of water, as he is mostly a sea monster god. And he is actually difficult to become/remain initiated to for even most Water creature, as becoming and remaining initiated requires large regular POW sacrifices. You mostly initiate to him en masse in times of danger when you want sea monsters or similar to destroy your enemies and save your people. Then go back to worshipping mostly less demanding and terrifying deities. He really is a bit Cthulhu-ish.

They regain Yelm cult rune points as if worshipping at an associated cult ceremony. So, some, but not as good as if they were worshipping at a Yelm cult ceremony. But then, they could probably do that before, if they understood that Yelmalio is the same as Kargzant (which is the cult that any Grazer man unlikely enough to not have the right lineage to worship Yu-Kargzant would be in). Yu-Kargzant and Kargzant are always acknowledged as associated cults by the Pure Horse Tribes - they basically understand the myth of Yelm returning to the world as Kargzant becoming Emperor of the world, succeeding his father. In Grazer society, their worship rites are probably combined anyway, so the point is moot until you get outside it. I assume the Grazers have acknowledged Kargzant and Yelmalio as the same god by now, in the time of Monrogh if not before. The rules are basically the same for a Dara Happan Yelm worshipper, but they conceive it very differently and the cultural context is different. They understand that Antirius was literally the part of Yelm he left behind when he was killed (separated into parts), and at the Dawn all Yelm's parts were combined again. So they see that Yelmalio and Yelm are of course associated gods, because one is literally part of the other. These funny barbarians who think Yelmalio is the son of Yelm are of course misunderstanding this badly. And while they might understand that Antirius was Yelm becoming part of the Many, and their recombining means Yelm is the One again but has knowledge of the Many (and is thus Illuminated), so it makes sense that mythic sense that anyone can participate in Antirius rites but only the elect participate in the sacred Yelm rites, the current social climate in the Dara Happan empire means that no one really sees a need for a separate Antirius cult, and it just doesn't practically exist there. But, you know, it could if anyone wanted it to, which no one really does in the heartlands (gods like Polaris or Yanafals Tarnils fill that niche now), but it's understood it survives among barbarians. This account lightly skips over many changes in Yelmic thought over the years (particularly about Illumination and the nature of Yelm), which individuals may know or understand differently, but that's mostly irrelevant from both a rules perspective, and for how it works in current Glorantha. To understand how a Grazer would relate to Yelmalio you mostly have to look at how a Grazer understands it, rather than how a Dara Happan Yelm worshipper would understand it - though it largely works out the same. But there is also the factor that the Sartarite worshippers of Yelmalio are going to have quite different reactions to Grazers and Dara Happan nobles wanting to join in their worship ceremonies.

The best way available to us as players to resolve these disputes is a playing Gods War.

It's basically an acknowledgement of having the right lineage. In many places in Dara Happa it is equivalent to being acknowledged as a full Citizen of the city (though it is a lot easier to become a Half Citizen, which carries many of the same benefits). The interesting thing is it really is initiation in a magical sense - the point of POW that would be sacrificed normally at initiation - just the real responsibilities and benefits haven't started yet. I think in Dara Happa, this is a kind of Bar Mitzvah for the ruling families, a ceremonial acknowledgement but before true adult responsibilities or active cult membership. I think that it is so socially important that even sons who are not expected to take any active role in the work of being a warrior-noble ruler (physically uninclined later sons, ardent Lunars, decadent dilettantes and confirmed members of the Drones Club (thanks Nick), and so on) and never become a full initiate will still go to the effort of becoming a lay member as a matter of course - it proves their membership of the elite rulership club, and is important for their descendants and social status. The small number of lay members, even if they might magically count as initiates, does not prevent Yelm from having many Great Temples, of course, as the majority of all the people in Pelorian society are in associated cults of Yelm and participate in major Holy Day ceremonies. David, what is your source for the 'no gender restrictions'? Yelm in its Dara Happan form has always been presumed to be as gender restricted as they get AFAIK.

The Pentan Yu-Kargzant worship mostly IS the Pure Horse Tribe. So they are the original culture the Grazers descend from - men worship Yelm as Yu-Kargzant, shamans are Golden Bow tradition, women worship Dendara as La-Ungariant, and they also revere Hyalor Horsebreaker and Hippoi. And they uses horses for everything, which isn't very practical, but magically important. Their shamans also often use the ascetic traditions that became the basis of Sheng's magic, and I think probably still have a lot of lingering adherents of Sheng's system (which combined that asceticism with a harsh version of Kralorelan mysticism). I think they also have some better access to a wider range of light and sky magic, and some other shamanic magic, than the Grazers do, but that is largely because the Grazers live in a landscape dominated by Storm and Earth worshippers - on the other hand, the Grazers have an easier life of it because many practical problems can be dealt with by getting the vendref to do it, and have access to more powerful Earth magic via the FHQ. But that is only one tribe of the 10 in Pent. Most solar tribes have a small percentage of Yu-Kargzant initiates at best, probably small clans among the tribes, the majority of the tribe worships Kargzant (effectively Yelmalio with all the phalanxes replaced with cavalry, mostly light cavalry horse archery, and no gifts and geases) and Eiritha as cattle goddess, and herd cattle, and also revere Hippoi and Hyalor. Yu-Kargzant is revered in Kargzant ceremonies with that hereditary minority acting as a priest caste, so Kargzant worshippers have access to a little Yelmic magic (just as Yelmalio does). They mix in a fair few other light gods, especially Polaris as a major fighting god (again, though, as a cavalry god rather than a phalanx god). Their shamanic tradition is much less focussed on Golden Bow (which still requires hereditary Yu-Kargzant lineage drawn from the Pure Horse clans), and more varied, and particularly includes ancestor worship and star captains that are tribal ancestors. A few other weird cults have drifted in as minority practices here and there, including some worship of the Blood Sun, and probably some lingering adherents to Sheng's harsh asceticism. And of course there is the substantial minority, 25%, of Pentans that are the Storm Tribes, still following the traditional Pentan/Yelmic social system, but with worship of Kargzant and Yu-Kargzant and other Sky gods replaced with the Storm gods, Orlanth, Humakt, Storm Bull and Gagarth. We still don't know much about them, but they sure raise a lot of interesting questions. I'm sure they still have Eiritha as their most common womens deity, but not sure who the average male rider worships. They still have a lot of ancestor worship and tribal ancestors.

GROY says Jenarong destroys the bird rider temple to replace it with a horse temple. That is in Raibanth, it takes a couple more generations of Emperors to finish the job across Peloria. Depends what you think the real truth about BernEel Arashagern might be as well. The idea that BernEel Arashagern was both, as a serpent deity, draconic, and a part of Yelm, and so Yelm was always a dragon was the justification the Golden Dragon cult used for putting a dragon on the Imperial throne. Of course, the more prosaic truth seems to be that BernEel Arashagern was instead symbolic of Yelm's fertility powers that he has always had, and is a serpent in the sense of being Yelm's 'trouser snake', seems better supported in the text. The 'galaxy brain' synthesis of the two ideas could be attempted, as Greg says at times (at least in relation to Kralorelan mysticism) that the mystic dragon/serpent is the Kundalini coiled serpent, but that is an enormous stretch. A better supported theory is that Yelm is pictured sitting on a dragon throne, and like Orlanth Yelm wins his sovereignty by conquering the dragon powers, as Burburstus the celestial dragon, and they serve as a symbol of his kingship, just in Yelm's case suppressed, literally sat on, and its dragon conquering that is important to early Dara Happen religion. Which compares interestingly with Ursturburn in the Entekosiad.

Yep. If you can't prove your descent from Yelm, you are going to have real problems. A female hero quester could seduce a minor Sky deity or hero known to be descended from Yelm, and then let her child found a Yelm cult (HonEel did something similar for different reasons), but it is very much a great heroic thing to found a new lineage of the Yelm cult. And it appears to be a universal Yelm cult thing, not a Dara Happen cultural one. Yes! And this is how the Yelm cult generally operates in Dara Happa or most of Pent, though in the Pure Horse Tribes including the Grazers, the majority of men are Yelm initiates,