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You think MRQ is the best version of RQ/BRP! Oh, maybe you mean MRQII? As for reverting to eariler form, I think the current form is bad enough. Tick off RQ fans with the RQII name, then drop the name and leave fans and 3rd party vendors in the lurch.

With luck RQII/Wayfarer/Legend could become History. Does anyone still think Mongoose Publishing is a good thing for BRP?

becuase in a fight, you can ingore those complications. I doesn`t matter much if the guy you shot is going to be crippled for life, or that he might die in 3 hours if neither effect kicksin until after the battle. As far as BRP goes, unfortnately, there are only two results. The guy either runs out of HP somewhere (or takes a major wound), or he is still fighting. Things like brain damage, or other permanet types of damage, are not factored ito the game. First off, my point is that this result is enitrly based on luck and weapon damage die, rather than skill. Secondly, the results might be what you expected, but as people have been saying, our expectations are wrong. 97% of people shot in the chest by assault rifles don`t just drop. BRP is, in fact, far more lethal than reality. No, high skill is a minor advatagein BRP. Each of those terrorsts have a much better chance of dropping the SAS guy with a burst from thier AKMs than he has of pulling off the head shots. The 2D8 assault rifle damage plays a much larger factor than skill or hit locations. Remember, torso and abdomen hits are about as deadly, and limb hits can incapacitate and kill in BRP.

I'd take a 7.62/.303/.30-06/etc. over a minie ball any day, damage wise. I think the n\major reason for the minie-balls "deadliness" was Civil War era medical care. The "big slow bullet" argument really doesn`t hold up. Otherwise modern armies and police would simply take some powerder out and put more lead in to thier bullets. Size helps, especially mass, but you still need sufficient energy to do real damage.

There is an unofficial FUDGE supplement, Knuckleduster, that is a nice compilation of US weapons made during the 1800s. It has some good info, and lots of weapons, many of which could end up in China, or are very similar to what was in China. In BRP terms, you can probably only do so much. Especially since firearms did not have interchangeable parts in those days.

That might be why the tactic was considered "cowardly". Most cultures tend to villify any tact that works against them. Soem Celtic tribes used to go into battle naked, and considered it very cowardly of the Romans to wear armor. During the American Revolutionary War the British considered it cowardlythat the Americans used to hide behind trees and rocks instead of lining up to be shot at.

I think SAN really only holds up for CoC. Even then, it stems more from Lovecraft`s mental disorders than how people would react to seeing things. Either than, or everyone who works in an ER is completely insane (partially, yes, but not completely).

Oh, please! Don`t tell me than "mulitiply by 5" prevents someone from being RPGS answer to Shakespear or Lawrence Olivier. That:s just an excuse for laziness and stupidly. And the "light math" model doesn:t hold up. Weather one is aware of the probabilties or not, tehy still exist and play a facotr in the way events play out. Just look at World of Darkness. No matter how much one wants to get iunto "story" and "roleplaying" the fact remains that staking a Vampire in WOD requires a certain number of success of a certain difficulty. In my experience, the great story tellers and roleplayers are not the ones who are "math impaired". Or "tactcially impaired" either.

The same thing. BTW, You should play Devils Advocate more often. You got a talent for it.

I think BRP is fairly flawed, but not for most of the reasons given. (most of those are subjective, and not actual flaws). I think the flaws lie in the toolkit nature of the game. It is hardly "Basic" (or if it is, I:d hate to see what "Advanced" Roleplaying looks like).Another flaw is that as the game is cobbled together from various predecssors, not all the subsystems (such as the various powers) are entirely compatible with each other. To be fair, they were not designed to be. But neither the above comes as a suprise, and I think even Jason mentioned then before BRP was released. As for the lack of vehicles rules, I suppose I derserve the balme for that. I've been toying around with soem design rules since before BRP was released. I just haven't worked on it for awhile. I even got some peliminary starship design rules. SIZ is somewhat consistent. At least in the 8-88 range that is most commonly used during play. Each +8 SIZ doubles the mass, and each +1 SIZ is about a 9% increase on the previous SIZ). I wish Jason has\d not used Worlds of Wonder , CoC, and Elric! as much as he did and relied on some of the other systems a bit more. The SIZ table from the boxed Superworld set would have given us a consistent SIZ table, and avoided some of the problems we ended up with.

That isn"t syrprising, since SCA combat was the primary model for RQ.BRP. One possiblity for blocks would be to give the a bonus. MAybew even maing them easy. It really isn't that tough to interpose a shield between you and an incoming weapon. Youir shield will get banged up, but better it than you.

Then how do those players expect to survive in a campaign? GM: You see some trolls on the other side of the bridge. Player: We rush the bridge an attack! GM: Are you sure? Don't you want to count and see how many trolls there are, first? Player: Count? I have to count? What sort of game is this! I have to do math?!! What, did we loose a war or something? Really, if crticals and specials are too much, how do you expect them to do things like track hit point, fatigue, magic point, ENC, weapon ranges, or even handle pocket money. Not to mention doing a little thinking during the game. I just ran a game with a guy who was so lazy, he didn't want to pick up the eraser to update the skill scores on his character sheet, and would just write the new scores next to or over the old ones. Everyobdy kept telling him what to roll, when, and why. They took care of his modfiers, hit points, property, everything. After six months people started to relaize that the guy didn't contribute anything. So, anybody want to tell me why we have to dumb things down for the "Reverend Jims"?

You know, if we differentiated between parries and blocks, and gave shields a bonus to block, shields would be very useful.

THat would be about +8 STR in BRP. Of coruse Bench Press lifting isn't the only way to lift, but at least it's a start.

Then maybe they shouldn't be playing. Really, if someone thinks multiplying by 5 is too much hassle they are either too lazy or too stupid. I'm suprised they can put up with the bother of showing up at the gaming table. C'mon.

I certainly would want to restrict players. Just becuase they want something doesn't mean than they are entitled to it. What if some player wants a 30 STR? BTW, the STR 15, SIZ 10 guy doesn't bother me. I said I wanted limits. Some people can lift more that thier body weight, so I can accept STR being higher than SIZ. But there should be a limit as to how much higher. But, Pip just couldn't have that 21 STR without the muscle mass. It is the same reason why you can"t have a 1000 hp moped that weights 50 pounds. You need a certain mass for a certain muscle. And as for SIZ in play, it does factor into the db, but it is ignored when determining the attack chance. Fighting someone who has 20 pounds on you can be an "uphill battle". That extra mass plays a factor. But not in BRP.

By location I mean more than just the general hit locations used in BRP. Not all hits to the chest are the same, even if they are from the same weapon an do the same "damage". It might work that way in most RPGs, but it doesn't in real life. That is what I mean about how it can get really complicated. A high powered rifle round might go right through someone, miss all the vital organs, and a low caliber pistol round could hit a vital organ and kill the guy. In BRP, as with most RPGs, damage is mostly a factor of a random die roll, tied to the bullet. Skill places a small factor (crits and specials), but high damage die tends to trump high skill.

By location I mean more than just the general hit locations used in BRP. Not all hits to the chest are the same, even if they are from the same weapon an do the same "damage". It might work that way in most RPGs, but it doesn't in real life. That is what I mean about how it can get really complicated. A high powered rifle round might go right through someone, miss all the vital organs, and a low caliber pistol round could hit a vital organ and kill the guy. In BRP, as with most RPGs, damage is mostly a factor of a random die roll, tied to the bullet. Skill places a small factor (crits and specials), but high damage die tends to trump high skill.

I do mind that bit of abstration, though. If anything it is worse that the light, medium, heavy pistol abstraction. Ah, but that is a houserule. In general BRP doesn't do delayed fatalities. I wish it did. A 4 point chest wound can kill you if it isn't treated properly. Likewise, the broken ribs and hemmoaging could be survived with proper medical care. Something that tends to be glossed over in most RPGs (as does digging out the bullets!).

Yuk. First off, I think any result that give an unparriable attack is bad. Very bad. Bad enough to get up and walk away from the gaming table bad. What this does is just make everybody carry a shield. Not only do shields get a special "undefenable" attack, but off hand weapons get screwed, too. Why bother learning to use an off hand weapon? Not only does it start off at a lower pencetage than anything else, but even when you do use it there is a -30% to parry. So if someone isn't using a shield he gets screwed. Yuk! And as for the broad deatails, the reason why people used left-handed daggers was becuase they helped. All this rule does is put someone who isn't using a shield at a disadvantage. I really don't like this idea.

I just can't figure out why there wasn't something like a flat +3 modfier for rifle rounds or some such. It would have helped a lot. I won't even get into the problem low velocity "dum-dum" bullets. But a simple fix for rifles would have been nice. Movie or RPG? The RPG was a very nice, flexible toolkit. As for the Bond movies, well. I do prefer From Russia With Love to Quantum of Solace. So I don't think newer is necessarily better. For the most part, I'd rather forget the 70s films. But as far as game mechanics go, sometime older RPGs handle some things better than some newer offerings. I think the Bond RPG handles firarms as well as anything out there. And I'd stack RQ2 or RQ3 up against any of thier more "modern" offspring. To be frank (and don't ask me who frank is being), I think the quality of RPGs has been in a bit of a decline. CCGs, and D20 OGL did a great job finishing off most of the innovative companies, and the current trend towards simplicity and "anti-simulationist" RPGs has left up with a bunch of RPGs with poor mechanics. And these days, if you discuss the math, some people get angry and say you are not role-playing. And now even role-playing is being discarded in enchange for an arcade game experience. Look at D&D 4E. Yup.So what? It sucked back then. Or do you think a new VW Beetle is better than a Porsche 911? Just because something is old doesn't mean that it is no good. It doesn't mean that it is good, either. Just old. There are cases where newer RPGs outstrip older ones, but we shouldn't take it as a given. I'd say that an old game like Bond is better than Spycraft. I'd also say that RQ3 is better than Wayfarer, D&D 3E is better than 4E, and that Traveller and MegaTraveller are better than New Era, or any of the other rewrites that have come out since. I'd put Cults of Prax and Borderlands up against any MRQ Glorantha offering. So being new is everything.

Considering that Howard also has Conan, "lifting a rock that no human could possibly lift", I'm not convinced. Plus there are quite a few cases where mass should factor into things. For example, most primates are, for thier SIZ, stronger than humans, yet if a money grabs your leg, you can probably drag him along.

This might come as a surprise to you guys, but the folks who are disagreeing with you have just as much experience playing, running, and writing various RPGs as you do. Some even have more. So overall experence balances out. What is relevant here is that those folks have more experience with the RQ/BRP system, and the SR system in particular. The can (and probably have already) find the weakspots as fast or father than you. Heck, I"ve probably familar with as many differernt RPGs as anyone. I've run dozens, and owned over a hundred. I got experience. So when experienced people with a greater familarity with this particular game system than you have (and based upon some of your MRQ vs. BRP posts you are not as famialr with RQ and Strike Ranks as the folks who are disagreeing with you) give you a warning about a proposed "fix", you should consider it. A lot of the "fixes" I've seen are buggier than the rules they supposedly improve upon. Quite a few will seriously alter the way the game plays in certain settings. A spell like Speedart looses a lot of it's value if you have to wait a turn to make the shot. You see, those of us familar with the core system, know what he trade offs are. If you really like the way MRQII handles initiative, by all means, use that method. If it matters, I played L5R, too. More than one edition, too. Just becuase your players don't like something doesn't mean that it is a bad rule, or is broken. Just that they don't like it. I've got some D&D players in my Star Wars D6 campaign who keep wanted to take thier turn right after we roll intitative, skipping over the "how many actions" are "who goes first" bits. It doesn"t mean that the intitative system is bad, just that those players are used to the D&D method.

Ah, here is thing. If they are opposed than both action take the same amount of time. What I like about SR is that a spell caster must decide between a quick spell, or a more powerful one. [quote=KingSkin;38433 The mage does have some other options like taking penalties to their roll to avoid damage. I actually have a bit of a problem with those rules because a decent caster trying a low-level spell can basically automatically succeed and thus avoid all damage for a round. I've pointed out to the GM that this is a very effective shield and actually means the mage can last longer in a fight than me even though my meat-shield have got about twice his HP (and the HP levels are similar to BRP as is the weapon damage).

Quite true. I was reading something where a woman empied her weapon into an attacker. The guy took the weapon away from her, beat her with it, and bleed to death an hour later.