styopa

Oh I've understood that, just arguing against having an entirely unique "rolling" SR system for one category of weapons and no others. We went to "you get your one shot on your strike rank at your sr" like every other weapon and everyone's quite ok with it. Generally missiles still fire first because of SR advantage anyway. Iirc part of the point of RQG was to simplify combat, this would be a good candidate element to simplify.

...which was always one of the odd, imo broken mechanics in the RQ2 system: why are missile weapons intrinsically faster than melee? Likewise the special treatment - only afforded to missile weapons - of repeat attacks based solely on strike ranks, whilst melee are limited to a single attack unless one's attack can be divided. "Gotta love the Bronze Age" [snipped tangential discussion about Glorantha and the term 'bronze age'] _________________________ ANYWAY, to continue my previously flight-interrupted list: P14 - Crit & special damage effects include STR mod, I presume? I think it's implied, but I don't find it clear from the text. Crit attack does max rolled, ignoring armor, while special does rolled x2; this means that in some cases it would be BETTER to take the special result than the crit result. Can we let them choose which, if they get a crit? (frex, d8+1+d4 max damage would be 13 ignoring armor, or an average of 16 points with a special; if the target has 0, 1, or 2 point armor, the special result would be better) Shields: of course they can be used with other missile weapons than the sling: javelin, hand-axe, thrown dagger, pretty much ANY one handed missile were historically used with a shield. The explanation of how to use a shield to block locations vs missiles is missing some bits; I understand what you mean only because of previous rules knowledge. The text descr is unclear. It says how many locations they can block, but not how that works (ie can you block locations and still use it for parrying, etc) P15- Knockback isn't really "knockback" in the colloquial sense of the term; what's being described is a bull-rush. P16: says "a thrown palm size object ..." but then talks about being able to throw things greater than SIZ 1....are there things that are palm-sized that would be greater than SIZ 1? Further it talks about damage based on 'per 3kg it weighs' with nothing in these rules connecting SIZ to kg. I think the throwing rules are trying to be comprehensive, but end up being way too complicated and broken. RAW as I understand: a STR 16 toon could frex throw a smooth, aerodynamic SIZ 10 object - say a nicely rounded 50kg boulder (Call that SIZ 10 from rq2 table) 6m, with a dex*5% chance to hit, for 1d3+(half STR mod)+16d8 damage? P17 - Death paragraph is wasted space; you already said 0 is death, and nobody in this QS has resurrection magic p20 - I presume only 1 spirit magic can be cast per round, or can multiples be cast if enough SR available? P20 - Rune spells go off on SR 1, even if the character has a higher dex SR - ie it actually fires before the character can act? P20 - remove reference to illusion spells, nobody in the QS has them. P21 the increasing spellcasting chance table is...odd. Why the confusing reference to a 2nd 'kind' of meditation to the kind already introduced? The table implies that mediation (in this style) only works up to 50 rounds and then after that it's 'ritual practices' of 30+ min. Seems like a very long way around to avoid just calling it 'ceremony' and getting a simple, single column table... P22-23: Earthpower is CRAZY overpowered. Basically, it gives an ernalda caster a free +1 POW between every holy day, which, if invested back into ernalda compounds its value quickly. Assuming a holy day each week, once the toon has earthpower, they're getting 1 POW per week (assuming no other spell usage). After 3 weeks they have 3 more POW, so now 2 castings, so 2 POW per week, etc. After 13 holy days, if I didn't mess up my math, she could have 66 rune points, giving her 22 castable earthpowers or +22 POW per week? (If holy days are presumed to be 1/season, that really doesn't much change how OP the spell is in a proportional way to other toons.) Dark Walk - odd caveat about range. So someone 170m could see someone Dark Walking (since they're outside the range)? Earth Shield - only specifically a shield, or any parrying device? Path Watch: effects within 100m of the road, or 100m radius of the caster only? Spell Trading: no limit on which spells can be traded? I could trade a 1 point Find Enemy for a (stackable) Lightning that I could then cast stacked with all my Rune points? Summon Elemental: spell mentions 'small elemental' and back of scenario describes it as 3m cubed = 27 cbm for 1 point spell, that can engulf 270 SIZ of targets (20+ people in battle formation, for example) and do 3d6 to all ignoring armor?. That's 'small'? If so, that makes the Summon elemental spells radically overpowered too. I'm still parsing the scenario generally, but the two items that leaped out at me: The rock lizards? Their initial introduction has them harrying a steer, "...racing alongside it, leaping onto its back, and biting it's flanks..." which sounds more like velociraptors than canonical rock lizards (which have always seemed a little more komodo dragony)? In fact, the description on the next page uses the term "ponderous" and says that "they are too slow to catch much prey and mostly feed on carrion" Sprul-pa: there are a couple of places where it says 'they show up on SR5"...does that mean they start appearing on SR1 and people can react the next 4 SR? But as there's no real changing of Statement of Intent, how does that make much difference? If the Sprul-pa is surprising the toon, basically when it pops up will be a surprise attack or the SoI phase (if no surprise), to start a round, no? Sorry if it's obvious to everyone else, that just seems to be confusing me. Other general comments (not really mechanics): Hit Loc Table: while the simple number table works adequately, I personally would strongly recommend going back to the anthropomorphic table for hp and ap...it's so much more evocative and frankly fun than a dull table list. In the thread above, Jeff mentioned that these toons have "herd" and "farm" instead of animal lore (and a resulting rules-kludge in the scenario to nevertheless let them recognize the rock lizards) because they've 'never learned about anything but their own livestock' - but these aren't stickpickers: Vasana fought at Pennel Ford, Moonbroth, and campaigned all the way to the liberation of Pavis...and she never picked up any general animal lore? Hell, they've all been generally all over the place. How does Sorala have "farm" & "battle" with her background? Vasana has a piece of Truestone - nobody in the QS would have any idea what this does. Both the sisters have TEN point MP crystals? That's...a lot better than the other toons. More after I parse the adventure a little better in my head.

Fixed my autocorrect. Sorry!

Really, seriously, I'd ask people to stop with the spoilers. I'd even recommend mods expurgate/censor the minor spoilers here. We're going to have (we hope) tons of people flocking here to learn about this famed old/new system. They shouldn't be hit with spoilers already. As far as the rules, Jeff and MOB can confirm I'm possibly the crabbiest of critics most of the time..., but this isn't the right place to tear up the rules either, particularly as they have what, 6 more months to polish this stuff? Mob, maybe start a rules discussion section in the public forum?

Mike, The qs mentions supplemental characters for download...Iirc it was a shaman and assistant priest? Do you know when those will be available? Clarification: p8 movement, max move 8m in combat, 24 out of combat. I would presume that this is based on their being in melee at the start of combat? (Is firing a missile weapon considered in combat?) However, p13 says people can move half and still melee/spell cast, but also says engaged toons basically don't get to move at all? Not sure how to reconcile all these? Could we get an example? No weapon table in rules at all? Parry p14: success parry vs failed attack means attacking weapon takes FULL damage? On average, that means a broadsword (12ap) will break after two failed attacks (avg dmg of d8+1+d4) vs successful parry? Really? Damage p17 talks about 3x damage resulting in sever or maim (why "irrevocably" when it isn't?), without distinguishing the difference or when it's one or the other...which is critical because one can be healed only with the 6pt heal P18 refers to healing rate, not mentioned elsewhere, not shown in example character sheets? P18 focus: if I pick up Jimmy's focus for heal 2, can I use it to cast it if I didn't have the spell? If I did? If not, why would anyone put a focus in something they could drop? Do I have to see the focus or touch it? (Ie could it be a tattoo on my back ?) Could it be a tattoo inside my mouth out of sight? Regaining magic points is oddly phrased & awkward...Do they come back as a lump every quarter day? At fixed times? Or in 6 hour quanta after spending? Why not just say they come back proportionally to pow every 24 hours? (Iirc that was rq3?), does the meditation bonus come if they've meditated anytime in that 6 hours span, or could they meditate 6 times in 6 hours and get a bonus for each hour? P19 farsee description is bizarrely worded Visibility- aren't spirits normally affected only by shield already? Do you mean makes it subject to physical attacks? "Other than spirit combat..." sentence confusing and needs rewriting Can you be in spirit combat and melee simultaneously? Can you attack in both in a round? That's it so far, gotta board a plane.

Of course one can cheerfully disregard such things. Not everyone wants to play Sims:Glorantha, but some may.

You live in Troll-lune? Is that the result of some misbegotten alliance between the Uz and the Red Emperor?

Complains about boob-plate and not enough women in picture. Didn't recognize second woman as female because she's not wearing boob-plate. I believe that's called irony, sir. Considering you can actually see a net of about 10% of the skin of any of them, that's working pretty hard to be offended. From GtG: "Wareran: a fair to olive-skinned race that inhabit most of Genertela, and Umathela in Pamaltela" If Jeff's saying it, it's probably a case of knowing the original source: http://glorantha.temppeli.org/digest/gd9/2003.08/2529.html From: Greg Stafford <greg@glorantha.com> Date: Sun 24 Aug 2003 - 03:36:20 EEST Hola Friends, >From: Mikko Rintasaari >One of the blanks is race. > >Ok, it's not quite blank. We have a rather Aryan bunch in the Heortlings and the other "barbarian belt" orlanthi. Blondes and redheads abound, eyes of blue, green and gray. Easy image to grasp. Vikings, kelts and germanic tribes. Just for information sake, I´ve generally held that the Heortlings are brown skinned, not white, or pink, as it were. Artists, most European, have tended to draw everyone as pretty much white, though. >But I for one don't like to see the rest of >Genertela cast from the same >mould. It's far more interesting, at least to me, >to look for variance. Me too. The only "aryan types" I´ve promoted are, like in our own Eurasia, crunched in the northwest corner. >West Europe is such a clishé ©n fantasy. Also >there's a desperate need for >some cultural basis to use on names. Made up >"fantasy names" can get >rather painful after a while. > >So, here's some ideas. > >The Lunar Empire? > >I've always liked the the Solar culture to be more >or less greek in style. >The patriarchal Dara Happans naturally bring to >mind the ancient greeks >and the empire reminds one of that of persia. The >Plehora of lunar deities >is rather indian in style, so one can use that for >ideas about fashion and >such. >Still basically your classic "white men", but at >least not quite so >nordic (all this coming from a scandinavian, mind >you). The idea that Persians and even ancient Greeks were white guys is a modern misconception that I, for one, do not hold to. This is not an attack on Mikko´s ideas or conceptions, but I do want to state, before your discussions start on this, that to me most people in Glorantha are some shade of brown, not anglos. Sincerely, Greg Stafford That said, FWIW Greg's belief that the ancient Greeks weren't 'white guys' has been largely put to bed...by DNA, by the analysis of pigments of contemporary art, by their own descriptions: unsurprisingly, the ancient Greeks were 'white guys' in pretty much the same way that modern Greeks are European "white guys" - ie a fair-to-olive-skinned race. Much of that discussion is covered surprisingly well here https://www.quora.com/Were-the-Ancient-Greeks-and-Romans-white YGMV. In my game, it honestly pretty much never comes up.

Glorantha is iconoclast now? I missed that.

Great links, thanks. Just a note, I haven't seen the Howling Tower, but https://armchairadventurerblog.com/2017/06/05/1-d-6-runequest-glorantha-play-test/ seems to have some pretty solid spoilers. (One should expect that in a recap of a session, but just making it explicit) From the other: "18 CHA is needed to become a Rune Lord." - er...?

Actually, after FreeRPG day, perhaps the following weekend or two, I may run another game at Dreamers Vault in St Louis Park, MN. I'd like to see how well the trial scenario and rules go, if it's swimmingly, then yeah.

Cool are you allowed to give any rules feedback? If not specifics, then general impressions? Did the 'updates' improve the RQ2 rules? Play quickly but still feel like RQ should? Very curious.

I'd guess that there are at least a few Chaosium staff still back at home.

Gotta honestly say, I'm a little surprised at the lack of comments from anyone at Eternal Con? If copies of the quickstart are already going around at the con, it might not be unreasonable to get the pdf out to those running games in 2 weeks? I know I certainly wouldn't mind as much time as possible to prep.

I believe it's from/about Eternal Con, that's a blurb from the Chaosium page.

The Source Comics & Games, Roseville MN (St Paul) 4pm, 6/17. Already have at least 1 seat filled (out of 5 pre-gens), as well as a possible 1-2 more (my sons who'd be eager to play IF we don't otherwise fill the chairs). Come on & play!

Runelord of another cult, or just because you use sorcery?

That sir, is a fair point.

"...the availability of such elementals would be limited..." There's a population limit on elementals? As far as I can tell, every time you summon one, they come. And then consider the PRECISE level of control one would have with an elemental, as well as the ability to instantly control temperatures, and it's not really arguable. Plus, at that level of tech it's not like they're precisely refining such oils - they'd be prone to volatilization (ie storage would be a severe problem), leakage (petroleum solvents can be quite corrosive), not to mention extraordinarily vulnerable to something as mundane as a fire-arrow, not to mention malicious magic. OTOH, a fire elemental binding is what, 3-4 POW for the enchantment? For something as large-investment as a warboat that's trivial.

While the put-put boat is a charming idea, I have to admit that this is one of those RPG setting things that just baffles me? "...ignorant foreigners might think demons have been chained to the bottom of the barges..." Of course they would think that, because in a magic-uniquitous place like Glorantha, it's simpler, cheaper, and far more reliable to use fire-elementals bound into service to heat such chambers, if one felt that simply having water elementals pushing one's boat was somehow too vulnerable. Yes, of course they'd be vulnerable to counter-magics, but certainly no more risky (and in the 90%+ of the time when such boats aren't actually in combat) cleaner, much more stable and controllable, and simply less dangerous than mucking about with pots of flammable/explosive quasi-napalm.

Wow, AAA grade product for free RPG day? This isn't just a "pamphlet-version" like the old BRP insert was, this is really a sharp-looking text, nicely laid out and printed. Can't wait to see it for real. THANKS PS: The air/storm rune on every page is CLEARLY pro-Orlanthi propaganda.

IMO I think there's a lot of people out there that believe 3d modeling is easy, when actually to do something like the above Duck is actually pretty serious amount of work. Sure, lots of people post That's why I advocate hard for 2d character portraits - although even getting that art done isn't necessarily cheap, if you have it done nicely (ie a pro-caliber artist). It's far more price-competitive for many people, not to mention being able to locally print as many as you want is perfect.

You'd have to have a good set of skirmish rules. ...compatible with RQG... ...compatible with Glorantha... ...approved by Chaosium... Yeah, IMO we're at *least* 18 months too late for that. Personally, FWIW my $0.02 would be Chaosium-licensed plastic minis instead of white metal. I'm as nostalgic as anyone, and I love my ancient box of lead figures (actual lead - how am I still alive?) but the cost is crazy and IMO unsustainable. I was pricing white metal figures from Corvus Belli for Infinity and...ouch.

This is one place where a little one-true-world Gloranthan whip cracking might be in order...would it be possible to maybe reconcile the lists of runes between the two games? So "Glorantha" has one primary set of runes?