Jeff

Given that Goram Whitefang is killed by Sarostip and his Humakti (Goram was trying to protect Temertain), I think the question is moot. That event, combined with King Kostajor Wolf-Champion (another kinsman of Argrath's) being murdered by his own great-nephew Jogar Sog means that perhaps we should be looking at a different set of kin-slaying.

And in fact, in Dragon Pass, the Humakt cult and Telmor are mutually friendly. Which means regardless of how you read the rules, Telmor initiates can initiate to Humakt without a problem. Remember, Prince Salinarg - whose wife was Telmori (!) - was the patron of the Household of Death, a key Humakti temple. Moreover, Prince Terasarin's daughter Tarkala was married to the Telmori Goram Whitefang, who in turn was the grandson of Onelisin, daughter of Prince Saronil (and the great-great-grandmother of Argrath). Interestingly, the Orlanth cult and Telmor are neutral towards each other. And even Storm Bull is only hostile.

The Humakti Duel The nature of the Code of Humakt is such that arguments, discussions, or any sort of disagreement can be settled by a (hopefully) non-fatal duel. The cult strongly encourages such duels. The rules for these duels are few and simple: · Both duelists must be at least lay members of Humakt. Thus, all involved parties know that the Honor Passion will be foremost. · The fight is to the first fallen. After one combatant drops to the ground (e.g., through incapacitation or unconsciousness) or drops their weapon, the duel is over. · Any Rune or spirit magic is allowed, except for Sever Spirit. The use of allied spirits is allowed, but not that of bound spirits or other companions. · The loser must pay some reward to the victor, as agreed upon beforehand.

And who is to say that the Dragon Pass Humakt cult is not friendly towards his fellow Death God Telmor?

Everyone born of Telmori parents is considered to be a wolf and automatically part of the religion. Among most Telmori tribes, marriage with an outsider is considered bestiality and is forbidden on pain of death; however, the Telmori of Sartar are permitted to marry those descended from Sartar. Those not born into the tribes must be adopted before they can join the cult. It is the initiation that curses the Telmori, not the birthright. Since the time of Nysalor, human initiates of Telmor are werewolves tainted by Chaos to involuntarily take wolf form each Wildday. They receive the Chaos Rune at 20% but have no other Chaotic features.

Orlanthi cannot "sense Chaos" but someone tainted by Chaos cannot initiate to Orlanth. The magic just doesn't work.

Argrath and Kallyr both have very thin royal claims - better than anyone else, but still not much. Neither were the child of a Prince, nor the grandchild. Kallyr was the great-granddaughter of Prince Jarolar (one of the second tier princes at that). Argrath had even less - his ties were entirely matrilineal, and his great-great grandmother was the famed Onelisin Catwitch daughter of Prince Saronil (admittedly a little more illustrious but even more distant). Temertain's wasn't great either - he was second cousin of Prince Salinarg. But at least that was a lot closer than those two. Kallyr and Argrath are considered viable because they do have some kinship with the royal house, even if it is very distant, and they have people who will follow them. Here's the notes on the Telmori uprising: In 1628, encouraged by opponents of Prince Argrath, Telmori rebelled before Argrath’s army left Sartar to cross the Dragonspine. Rather than be distracted from his goal, Argrath ignored the Telmori. However, upon his return to Boldhome the following year, Argrath suppresses the Telmori uprising. How the Telmori get suppressed is something that your campaign likely decides. Maybe Argrath sends in the Storm Bull cult and Humakti to do it, forcing the werewolves out of Dragon Pass. Maybe Argrath defeats the ringleaders and makes a new pact with the remaining Telmori. Who knows for certain, except in your campaign.

I have quite a bit on that and have posted bits of it from time to time. Stone is the preferred building material in Sartar, although adobe and timber are perhaps more commonly used in rural areas. Basalt, limestone, marble, and granite are all used, depending on local availability. VILLAGES Though they differ in detail, most villages in Dragon Pass differ little from one another. Each village is a clan center and the headquarters of a local chief or important noble. The population of these villages is about 100–500 people each, most of whom farm, but many of whom also are crafters or the tribe’s mercenaries and retainers. Most village are surrounded by walls, of earth, fieldstone, or clay bricks. Buildings are usually of stone, mud brick (adobe), wood, or a combination of these materials. Temples in each village always include Ernalda and the local Husband Deity (usually Orlanth). All villages have a few shrines to other gods or spirits. Each household is assigned land to farm by the clan and resides in a small complex of buildings surrounding a central courtyard called a “stead”. In much of Sartar, most buildings have at least a stone foundation. Walls can be made of stone, adobe, or wood, depending on what is available. Roofs are typically made of thatch, wood shake, or fired ceramic tile. The stead might be part of a larger village or be alone, surrounded by low walls made out of fieldstone or adobe. CITIES Residential buildings in most Sartarite cities are generally of one or two stories, but they vary with the income of the residents. The poorest in the city may sleep eight people to a room, which they share with chickens, sheep, and pigs. The richest have several voluminous rooms per individual, with frescoes on the walls and carpets on the floor. Each household has its shrine to the household gods and ancestors, to whom an offering is made each morning. Buildings are made of three types of materials: adobe, stone, and wood. Outer walls are often whitewashed and decorated with geometric designs. The size of most buildings requires rafters to support the roof or second story. Roofs are tiled, shingled, or thatched. A middle-class freeman’s dwelling is a common building. This house measures from 10-20 meters on a side. If square, a shape popular among Earth worshipers, 15 meters to a side is common. Many of the larger buildings are holed, with light wells in their center. The bottom floor is divided into three rooms, one of which is often a shop, rented by a merchant. The central area is a general cooking and eating room, and it is here that many still have a fire pit. Such customs quickly disappear when a second story is added and fireplaces installed. There is also a part for the servant’s quarters. Furniture depends on taste and budget. The second story is usually divided into one large room, often used for entertaining and for more servant sleeping, as well as a number of smaller ones, usually private rooms for family members and close household. It is common to have a guest room. There are two fireplaces, one in the downstairs cooking area and one in the upstairs entertainment area. Most houses have a ground floor room set aside as a privy. Food storage is kept far from this room. Boldhome is an architectural marvel, so its buildings are described elsewhere.

She definitely comes back. Just takes a little while.

Orlanth is not Yelm's shadow. Yelm can see Orlanth to begin with.

There's a lot in here - but first and foremost this is why I tend to ignore post written to "objectively" cheerlead one side or another. They tend to get things wrong - very wrong. Although one can certainly look at the tribes of Afghanistan to get some insight into Orlanthi - or Lunar - culture, neither side are the Taliban. The analogy breaks down the moment you look carefully.

Hah - the Ostrich Riders! Now I don’t have the Prax cult distribution spreadsheet handy but they number maybe a thousand members. They are not participating in the greater Yelmalio cult of the plains and likely have pretty limited magic. Enough to survive as weird bird riders.

Yep. At this point I think I’ve pretty thoroughly explained this. I’m happy to talk about how the Yelmalio cult functions, it’s role in South Peloria but I have no interest in going round and round in circles with people who want a different answer.

Again, you state this stuff over and over again, but I tell you that is not the way it appears in RQ, not the way it is going to appear in the Cults Book, Sartar Book, etc. The only Air deity associated with Yelm is Molanni aka Entekos. She basically Dismisses Clouds and Decreases Winds. Orlanth's primary troll killer is Orlanth or Humakt. Or maybe they can hire some Yelmalions to do the work. Now you are welcome to have Elmal as a Yelm analogue in your Glorantha. Go for it. But that is not how it is going to work in published works. All the Little Suns fall under the category of Yelmalio, even if they have some local variations and local names.

The name Elmal appears 5 times in the Guide. Now I wrote the Guide in 2012-2013, and if I were to do it again, Elmal would appear 4 times. Not once does it speak of Elmal having fire powers, although it does reference Elmal's arrow magic. The Three Magics of Creekstream Ford: The gulping earth that swallowed the broos; Elmal’s arrows that downed the hoverers; and the Harmast Sons, who stood like a wall. In contrast Yelmalio appears 50 times.

Elmal does not have fire powers. I screwed up in the description in Sartar KoH.

The Orlanth cult in the Far Point sought to rebel from Lunar Occupation. Harvar Ironfist used his leadership of the Yelmalio cult to establish himself as the ruler of Alda-Chur with the support of the Provincial Government, and then defeated the Orlanthi rebellion. Given that the Yelmalio cult was outnumbered by the Orlanth cult almost 4:1, it meant that the Harvar needed to be constantly disrupting their activities, demoralising them, etc, even with the support of the local Lunar garrison. It also meant that he needed to impose his will on the local Yelmalio cult to an extreme extent. In truth, not much was written about the Far Point by Greg after the King of Sartar (which did not mention Elmal in the context of Harvar) until WF 15.

But then again, nor is King of Dragon Pass. Hill of Gold or its analogue is found in all Yelmalio cults.

No.

That's where she first appeared.

Berensor died at Grizzly Peak, fighting for King Tarkalor and the Feathered Horse Queen, along with many other Yelmalio cultists. His grandson Varthanic was initiated into the Yelmalio cult at the Sun Dome Temple. He's traveled to Prax and worshiped Yelmalio at the Sun Dome Temple there, although he found the Sun Dome cultists there to be quite backwards and extremely provincial, although the beer was excellent. He later traveled to Mirin's Cross, and was struck how the Sun Dome Temples maintain their identity despite the Yelm nobles from the Heartlands. The Lunar influence troubled him, and he was surprised at the semantic games the Light Priests used to avoid acknowledging Lunar supremacy. Nonetheless, the Sairdite temples had many new stories and myths. From there he went on to the Hill of Gold, where he walked those sacred grounds.

Now comes the fun one. Berensor was initiated into the Elmal cult at Famegrave, where there was a minor temple. He got caught up in the Elmal cult's conflict with the Local tribal leaders and the Sartar Dynasty, and was exiled for kinslaughter. He went to the new Sun Dome Temple in the Amber Fields and of course recognized the Elmal stuff other exiles had gathered there - and he offered worship there, and of course it was successful (he regained his Rune Points!). He swore loyalty to the Major Temple to Yelmalio there and was rewarded with a plot of land, a spear and some armor. He fought for the Sun Dome Temple against the trolls of Troll Woods, and eventually became a Light Son.

That all seems right to me. Vasana was initiated into the cult of Orlanth Adventurous (Vinga) at the major temple of the Colymar tribe (as is common). As an initiate she offers worship to Orlanth at all sorts of temples and shrines to the god and his aspects throughout Dragon Pass, Pavis, and the Holy Country. Vasana can travel from Clearwine to Vesmonstran and recognise things. Normally she recognises the regalia, the accoutrements, and the songs in Storm Speech - this stuff has been carried throughout Genertela over the last sixteen centuries. Nathem was initiated into the Bear God cult in Old Tarsh. There is little more than a few shrines to Odayla there, and Nathem wanders widely offering worship to the Sky Bear wherever he can. He travels to Syllila where there is a large and organised cult with as many people as the entire adult population of the Tarsh Exiles. It is an eye-opener, with new stories, new myths, and more. So Nathem keeps wandering, and eventually makes his way to Fronela. There he encounters the Rathor cult - and Nathem tries worship the Great Brown Bear there. Does he succeed or is that the point where the differences are too great? Dunno, sounds like a fun part of that campaign though!

Now that is an interesting one - and ties in with the general downgrading of Lightfore in favor of Ehilm by the God Learners. Ehilm-Somash, Lodril-Solf, and Aether-Zitro Argon are all easy to see, but Lightfore is hard to find there!

I find it weird as well.