Jeff

Black Fang does not provide all common rune spells - only Divination, Extension 1, Multispell 1, and Spirit Block. Thunderbird only provides Cloud Call and Thunderbolt.

OK, a few thoughts on the Invisible Orlanth. We all know that the Invisible Orlanth movement holds that Orlanth is an emanation of Idovanus, sent to liberate the world of Ganesatarus. Orlanth is invisible because he is in hiding until it is time for him to strike against Ganesatarus. Although the Invisible Orlanth is inspired by the Theyalan Orlanth cult, it is not the Orlanth cult we all know - like the Roman Mithras its actual continuity with the Theyalan cult is debatable. It might provide some Rune magic to its initiates though, such as Summon/Command/Dismiss Air Elemental, Cloud Call, etc (I'm still uncertain about that). Or maybe it doesn't, and it is only a philosophical/prophetic movement. What matters is that it says that Orlanth is HERE but invisible (for now). The Invisible God movement is certainly politically problematic for the West Reaches. The Lunar Governor wants it proclaimed a heresy by the Heirophant, but Brostangian refuses. Many of the Carmanian viziers want it proclaimed a heresy as well, but again Brostangian refuses. Whether this is because of kinship, manipulation by his mother, or genuine belief that it is not a heresy, nobody knows for certain (best bet is all three). Invisible Orlanth gets tied into all sorts of mangled prophecies of the Hero Wars. Is this somehow a glimpse of Harrek and Argrath? Of the lifting of the Ban in Charg? Of the fall of the Red Moon or the demise of the Lunar Empire?

This is a long way off talking about Invisible Orlanth. Lets return to the subject of the thread. If you want, you can always start a new thread.

Iron dwarfs have no sense of honour, and have no need to fight single skirmishes. Throw Disorder Kegs and Bowling Balls to your hearts content. If the humans do something crazy enough like threaten Dwarf Mine with their armies, then out comes the Cannon Cult.

A lot in this thread. Dwarf Weapons. Most dwarf weapons are modified tools - hammers, clubs, axes, etc. or things constructed for the explicit purpose of killing things - crossbows, pistols, muskets, exploding barrels, etc. Dwarf society is incredibly conservative and once a thing is adopted, they tend to stick with it. Given that the average Iron Dwarf has 9 AP, and has a 70% chance of ignoring any magic cast at it, I'd not swear at them. Since they mainly fight trolls and dwarfs, their weapons are more dangerous than they look. Especially since those repeating crossbows have iron tips. When I handle dwarfs, they fight from a distance, using their crossbows. They almost never fight in the open ground and only enter combat once the enemy has been pounded by waves of bolts doing 2d4+2 damage (4-10 points as opposed to 2-9 for a composite bow). In their tunnels, where they sense everything with Earthsense, that's much more frightening than the waves of trollkin slingers. Also remember, they like to use Jolanti to soften foes up. Shields. My players all make sure they have shields and generally are reluctant to parry too often with their main striking weapon. A shield can break without dooming the character. It is useful against missile fire, etc. They aren't as indispensable as they were in RQ3, but my old sifu more than showed me why that is the case. In the end, shields are far more useful in group battle than in single combat (but can still be pretty useful in single combat). Most RQ combats are really single combats or light skirmishes.

As you say, the idea of an almost purely abstract Prime Mover is not interesting to you. And yet, such abstract Prime Movers have been quite popular - at least among the intelligentsia - in many societies and many times. And since the zzaburi can wield magic and powerful magic at that, they must have something going for them.

I don't find the Rokari fascist at all. Nor the Lunars. Not even really the New Hrestoli, although certainly a better argument can be given for them. They are certainly theocratic, but then again so are most Gloranthan societies. Certainly the Lunar Empire is a literal theocracy. Rokari Malkionism posits a hereditary caste system with a semi-meritocratic, non-hereditary "priestly" caste at the top (who doesn't muddy in their hands in the affairs of the world, but need to work with the nobility to maintain their position). I could imagine a Greek philosopher suggesting something like this to Demetrius of Bactria as a way of better governing his domains.

Well, to each their own. I find the Rokari easier to understand than the New Hrestoli myself. After all, the Rokari are closer to us moderns than the Lunars or Hrestoli....

I find the Rokari very easy to be painted as something palatable. They are "realists" about the world and human nature, and have as much joy and sadness, love and dislike, as any other human society. Their system is pretty easily to accept - if you are already a ruler, you get acknowledged as a hereditary ruler. If you are already a soldier, you get acknowledged as a hereditary soldier. And if you are everyone else, you get acknowledged as everyone else. And if you are a kid who shows magical aptitude, you get to go to Hogwarts and become a wizard. You lose your family (and don't deal with Muggles much any more), but get to become one of the most important people in the world - the people responsible for maintaining magic. Sure there is a Ministry for Magic, which regulates your life, but then again, you don't really have to pay attention to those Muggle Ministries anymore.

Lets look at this differently. The Brithini system is "perfect". The Brithini enjoy immortality and do not die of old age because of their adherence to perfection. Even the most menial of dronari enjoys immortality. They are by all accounts very well governed and haven't had a civil war (that we know of) since the Dawn. They made great sacrifices during the Gbaji Wars and survived. But nobody can become a Brithini from outside. It is a closed system. Their descendants all did things in the God Time and the Dawn that were incompatible with the Brithini Way. No going back to being immortals. We are all stuck with mortality now. So how should us mortals - the heirs of the Brithini - live. If we approach Rightness enough, we can slow down the wear of mortality and become very long-lived (but not ageless). However, that's hard work and sometimes makes survival in this flawed and degenerate world difficult. Do we just shrug our shoulders and run around with animals like the Hykimi and give up our cosmic knowledge to howl at the Old Gods? We sometimes see our Brithini ancestors and they look at us like we are short-lived savages, but we were them once. If we can't get back to that state, how should we live? Most Malkioni sects are trying to answer that question (although some are looking at it from the opposite end of the telescope).

So what is the Invisible Orlanth? Well the mad preacher I heard in the market at Brinnus (before the market guards chased him off) said that "Orlanth is still here even if we cannot see him. His Breath is everywhere and as Invisible as ours! He turns the world around Idovanus' pillar! Remember, he defended Castle Blue yonder, and refused to submit! Orlanth became Invisible like the Breath of Idovanus, but he is still there, still turning the world. And soon his Breath will become a mighty storm that shall knock down towers of lies and destroy the palace of Ganesatarus! He may be invisible now, but soon everyone shall see ..." At that point the market guards chased him off.

The nice thing about dualism is that it is really easy to go from a One Invisible Prime Move to a One Invisible Prime Mover AND One Bad Maker of Bad Things. Dualism pops up naturally in the Malkioni mindset.

All Malkioni would agree that ALL human societies are divided into four castes - the leaders, the magicians, the fighters, and the workers. According to Malkion that is how mortal society functions. And specialists are better than non-specialists. So magic should be handled by specialist magicians, leadership should be handled by specialist leaders, etc. The only real question is how does one get slotted to a specific specialisation. The Idealists say that anyone should be capable of doing whatever they are capable of doing. The Realists say that is a tremendously inefficient approach that always results in disaster. The Idealists say that the Realists are unjust and wasteful of talent. And so on.

A few thoughts here. Orlanth had a significant mythological presence in the old Carmanian Empire, going back at least to the times of Survilstar Dragonslayer and his Orlanthi allies. Orlanth's brothers Humakt and Storm Bull are important War Gods (even if they are rarely called by those names). And Orlanth is the enemy of the Red Goddess. The West Reaches has been part of the Lunar Empire for three and half centuries. However, it never became part of the Heartlands and maintained a strong identity. Although New Pelorian is the lingua franca, Carmanian is still spoken and written by the educated. A historical analogy could be Hungary under the Habsburgs. In the Sixth and Seventh Wanes frustration and resentment of the increasingly "Dara Happan" imperial aristocracy grew. That frustration and resentment has fuelled the rise of the cult of the Invisible Orlanth. Orlanth the Great Rebel was enlightened by and then submitted to the Invisible God. Although many viziers demand that the Hierophant proclaim the cult a heresy, the Heirophant has refused to do so despite provocation from his half-brother. Who knows how much of this is a devious scheme from the Taloned Countess? The Lunar Empire itself is in a long-brewing religious and financial crisis that has already erupted with the White Moon Movement and the Voor-Ash invasion, but will explode following the defeat at the Red Emperor, his leading heroes, and the Lunar Army at the Battle of Bagnot.

It is not a con.

Here's the current rules: INITIATE MEMBERSHIP Initiation into the Invisible God cult is a prerequisite for full membership in Malkioni society. Initiation follows several years of caste education and training. Each caste has their own set of rituals, restrictions, special abilities, and associated cults, all unique to that caste. Once a person initiates into a given caste, they cannot join a different caste – except by means of the Hrestol cult. CASTE RIGHTNESS Each caste has duties and restrictions which must be maintained to remain a member of the caste. This is represented by the RIGHTNESS characteristic for Malkioni initiates. Initiates start with a RIGHTNESS of one. RIGHTNESS may have a score greater than one, representing the initiate’s reserve of righteousness. If a character’s RIGHTNESS is less than zero, that character may no longer use any caste magic or special abilities and risks being thrown out of their caste and exiled from Malkioni society. RIGHTNESS may be increased by adherence to caste duties and restrictions in adversity in ways that create difficulties for the character and make the game more entertaining. Examples include a talar refusing to perform menial labor even though their survival might depend on it, or a dronar refusing to touch a weapon even in self-defense. The gamemaster should not award RIGHTNESS for good dice rolling, simple puzzle solving, ordinary combat successes or any other of the minor accomplishments that might occur during the course of a session. RIGHTNESS should be reduced by the gamemaster for transgressions against any caste duties and restrictions. For each circumstance, the gamemaster should warn the player that a given action will result in an increase or decrease in RIGHTNESS. If the player insists, then RIGHTNESS should be adjusted accordingly. Initiation into the cult of Hrestol can mitigate this, as a Hrestoli initiate does not lose RIGHTNESS for any action that upholds the Hrestoli code. However, if they violate their caste restrictions in a way that does not uphold the Hrestoli code, they still lose RIGHTNESS. EXPULSION FROM CASTE A character with a zero RIGHTNESS characteristic is no longer in good standing with their caste and cannot use any caste special abilities (such as a talar’s Forced Command ability or a zzaburi’s ability to store magic points in the Spirit World) until their RIGHTNESS is positive. A character with a negative RIGHTNESS may be expelled from their caste by their elders. If this happens they are no longer accepted as members of Malkioni society. If they can get their RIGHTNESS back to positive, they can submit themselves to caste elders to be brought back (this is often called “Return to Rightness”). The elders may impose penances, fines, and other punishments as a condition for return. Until then they are viewed as outlaws, barbarians, or even krjalki (monsters) by other Malkioni. Some sects do not permit a character to return to their caste once expelled. For the Brithini, expulsion is permanent and always results in death. CASTE RESTRICTIONS AND SPECIAL ABILITIES Each caste has restrictions which must be followed to maintain their RIGHTNESS. Some castes have special abilities – magical abilities of the caste members. If they are expelled from the caste for any reason, they lose all special abilities of that caste. RUNE SPELLS AND DIVINE INTERVENTION Unlike other cults, the Invisible God does not provide Rune spells, Divine Intervention, or allied spirits.

Yeah let me expand on this. The God Learners started experimenting with the genealogy of the gods around 700 or maybe earlier - Tanian's Victory showed how useful this was. But in order to understand the structure of the cosmos (and thereby have ways to exploit that structure with sorcery), the God Learners needed to learn about the gods and their myths.

Depends on the needs of your game and what that lower caste sorcerer has done.

Yes. Depending on the local sect. Some sects think that sorcerous techniques ought to be widely taught (such as New Hrestolism). Others think that deep knowledge of sorcerous techniques should be restricted to specialists (such as Rokarism).

So from an Orlanthi perspective, Malkionism is pretty radical. First it posits that the cosmos is a rationally created thing - instead of being simply born out of a cosmic egg. It demands that creator is worshiped as the supreme god, despite being abstract, unapproachable, and non-reciprocal. Second, it imposes a radically different form of social organization and says that it is demanded by how the cosmos is structured. But the Malkioni - especially their wizards - know a lot about the cosmos and its overall structure. Most Malkioni acknowledge the gods and worship specific gods as ancestors, localized beings, or useful spirits. They worship them and gain powers from them, but deny them the role of supreme - or even most important - being. The gods are often thought of as aspects, constructs, emanations, or devolutions from the supreme Invisible God.

Arkat was considered a traitor because he initiated into the cult of Humakt and then turned over all of his Brithini and Hrestoli secrets to outsiders - despite the shocked outrage of the wizards. He showed people who did not even acknowledge the Invisible God the deepest secrets of the Malkioni religion. He showed secret Brithini paths to Orlanthi, he showed secret Orlanthi paths to trolls. His treason was infinitely worse than merely joining a cult. Like all of the Stafford Library, Middle Sea Empire is a notebook and was never intended to be a final word on anything.

And this is a key to understanding the role of the zzaburi - they perform the worship of the Invisible God itself. The Invisible God is abstract, the ultimate reality in the universe. It is Brahman, the Ein Sof, the Unmoved Mover, the One. The Invisible God does not change, but is the cause of all. The Invisible God is unity, undivided, infinite, and the single binding truth behind diversity in the universe. Next to the Invisible God, all others are infinitely small, localized, and insignificant. They may be called on or used if necessary, but the Invisible God is the All.

The Aeolians? They consider themselves to have the true secrets of Malkion, so probably identify as "followers of Malkion". However, their beliefs and practice would be heretical or even blasphemous to the Rokari or Hrestoli of Loskalm. But the God Forgot folk don't care, and there really are no other big Malkioni groups in the Holy Country.

Magasta.

When we think about the Aeolians, we are talking about a small and very heterodox religion that can be described both as a Malkioni sect with syncretic Orlanth elements, or as an Orlanthi group that have adopted Malkioni elements. I view them as being roughly analogous to the Druze or Alawites. Many orthodox Malkioni don't consider the Aeolians to even be Malkioni.