Jeff

On the GM side, I would make a little mind map of the Otherworld, and a few mythic locations and obstacles that they might overcome. So there is some sort of Chomping Maw at the bottom that they need to pass through; there's a Plain of Grey Ash, populated by red skinless trolls that breathe fire; there's the Path of the Dead (but don't follow them, they are going somewhere else) where they might get to talk to an old enemy or an old friend; there's a Ball Contest with the Striped God where the characters need to wager their arms if they want to get the direction to the Demon Lord; and so on. THere's even a Red Woman who offers to show them the way. Maybe they fight, maybe they talk, maybe they sneak, maybe they make bargains - all are options! In the end, they confront Monster Man, who has the Grain Goddess imprisoned as his house servant, but he's too strong in almost everything they try. But he's got a hideous wife who is surprisingly kind to the characters. She's willing to tell them her husband's weakness, for a price.... That kind of stuff. In the end, the characters interact with a number of archetypes which they might identify as various deities or entities. They get some neat powers or heroic abilities, get some increase in their Runic abilites, etc. They bring back the Grain Goddess and their community is filled with happiness. Or they don't and they get banished!

As an aside, most heroquests are not about changing reality, or rewriting major myths - for what it is worth, I find such heroquests are not all that interesting. They are about discovering something new - in the mythology or in the characters themselves. Here's a really basic one: The Earth priestesses are all in a worry this year as the winter solstice has passed and the Grain Goddess has still not begun to awaken. If she does not return, there will be no spring planting, let alone a fall harvest. Everyone is worried. Omens and divinations are taken, and it seems she is trapped in the Underworld by a "Demon Lord with a Bone of Power". The Earth Priestess writes names of those in the local community on shards of pottery and puts them in a cauldron. She picks them out in a ceremony attended by all- it is your characters who are named! She says that you all must enter the Smoking Cave (located near the Cinder Pits) and descend deep within until you pass out of this world. She gives you an emerald crystal with two powers - it is a spell reinforcing crystal of 4 points, and it glows brighter when held in the direction of the Grain Goddess! Now go for it!

1) not really. A heroquest is when a mortal interacts with the God Time in any sort of prolonged manner. Because we are mortals, such interaction takes place (or forms, depending on your perspective) in what is called the Hero Plane - a Ven Diagram overlap of the Mundane World and the Gods World. Now such interactions are dangerous - as you are interacting with the primal stuff that is Glorantha. Screw it up and you might disappear forever, or everything you touch dies, or your grain becomes inedible, whatever. So normally people stick to what they know, what their ancestors have always done, etc. Such things we know - that's Rune Magic. Go to the God Time, sacrifice that point of POW, learn a new spell. But for the really cool stuff - for the stuff we don't already have routines for - you need to go deeper into the God Time. And that's where it gets interesting! The only paths we have are what our Heroes have done (which is pretty few actually) or what we know the gods did in the God Time (lots more there). But again, we don't usually know each step they took OR even worse - we know many versions of the steps they took. 2) your story is what you experience. That experience is true, at least for you - and you might be able to teach others how to experience it as well. Somethings are hard-wired in all the stories - there is a basic structure to these stories. But even then there can be differences. In every story, the Storm God uses Death on the Bright Sun. That's why the Sun sets every evening and enters the Underworld. But maybe it wasn't the Emperor Yelm that was struck down, maybe it was Yelm's son, the Golden Emperor, who was killed and Yelm just collapsed out of outrage! Same basic story, but lots of variations. 3) Changing existing stories operates within that framework. We've all heard the story how Orlanth killed Yelm - every version of that story contains some elements of that archetype. Maybe Orlanth has help. Maybe Orlanth cheats. Maybe Yelm tries to cheat. But in every story, Yelm is killed. That's a cosmological truth - an archetype regardless of who we call the gods. Glorantha has lots of these. The Sword Story. Orlanth and Aroka. Magasta and the Homeward Ocean. Storm Bull and the Devil. Etc. But you can also create new stories nobody every knew before. And they are also true. Like the time Orlanth slew the Mover of Heavens. Or that time Eurmal saved everyone in the Underworld. You have more latitude with those. The downside is they are more dangerous as you are likely experiencing them for the first time.

Argrath had quite a few children. Probably his most famous child was Halifitoor, who became King of Dragon Pass in 1658.

I mean it in the same way that Thunderous, Adventurous, and Rex are all Orlanth. We could have exactly the same discussion about how Thunderous is a different deity from Orlanth, but that's not really true (at least in the last two ages) and is certainly not really useful for playing RuneQuest.

Just like sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, not all Red Women are the Red Goddess. And let's be fair, Vinga is the red-HAIRED woman (Orlanth also is normally described as having red-hair but nobody really cares about that). She is Orlanth's warrior "daughter" (or perhaps Vingkot's fully divine "sister") but her identity is Orlanth. Historically, her cult appears to have appeared as a tribal protector of the Bereneth Tribe in Saird, with their "Red-Haired Women." In stories all the daughters of Redayla Vingkot's daughter and Bereneth the Rider are "Red Headed Women". Heort's mother Drenyan was said to be a Red-Haired Woman of the Alynx Clan, which ties this altogether. In the Dawn, the Red-Haired Women were incorporated into the Orlanth cult, and the rest is, as they say, history. The Red-Haired Women get a lot of interest because Harmast's descent from the Bereneth royal line. Scholars latch onto it because it is a tantalising hint into the origins of the Orlanthi people, but it is just that - a tantalising hint. They are female versions of the one hundred sons of Dhritarashtra by Gandhari. In stories you'd have the many red-haired daughters of Redaylda and Bereneth fight battles, shake their spears, and be Thunderdaughters, female Maruts or a band of sister Amazons. To me trying to draw a connection between Vinga and the Red Goddess is a stretch too far. The Red Goddess is her own thing, and a world-changer.

Going back to the original post, Vinga is always worshiped in conjunction with Orlanth, just as Orlanth Thunderous, Orlanth Adventurous, and Orlanth Rex are. In New Pavis, she was worshiped at the Air Temple (previously the Orlanth Temple) during the Lunar Occupation. The temple was closed after the events of the Cradle inn 1621.

But we are now a long way off from talking about Vinga in Pavis or even Vinga at all. I suggest a new thread or threads be created.

None of my players in my current RQG campaign are old grognards. For four of them, this is their first experience playing RQ.

Yep. Look the Orlanthi is an enemy of the Red Goddess is for the same reason as Kyger Litor, Storm Bull. Valind, Xiola Umbar, and Zorak Zoran are - she brought Chaos into the world in the form of the Crimson Bat. There's no Godtime event cemented by the Compromise this is rooted in; she just did it. In Time. And then made herself a Greater Deity. That she contests with Orlanth for the Middle Air is just icing on the cake.

Hippoi is the common name for the Horse Goddess - it just means Horse of course. She's normally worshipped with someone else - Yelm, Dendara, Ernalda, etc. Sometimes her worship is paired with Hyalor. Together they provide Command Horse and Speak to Horse. King Griffin doesn't really have an independent cult, at least among humans. He's more of a guardian entity with the Yelm cult.

I've heard more than a few theories that suggest it was the Lunars themselves that summoned the True Dragon, albeit accidentally, by building their New Lunar Temple directly on top of it.

Shadowcats, lions, saber-toothed cats - all are considered to be children of Fralar. But so are Rathor, Telmor, etc. Some God Learners put an intermediate step between Basmol-Yinkin and Fralar, making them brothers, and Rathor and Telmor cousins. But magically this was unnecessary - Brother Lion, Brother Cat, Brother Wolf, they were all brothers according to the Hykimi.

Solar traditionalists who disown their daughters because they joined the ruling cult in the Lunar Empire - which is headed up by Yelm's Supreme Priest who happens to be Yelm's grandson!!!! - are not going to be a very significant factor in 8th Wane Heartlands.

Leika's big problem - and it is a HUGE one - is that she is not descended from Sartar and cannot call upon him as an ancestor. Which means she cannot be Prince. So instead of being able to claim an office that is well-established with great legitimacy built up over the last century or so, she has to start from scratch. And she's made some foes as well....

So as we think about the distance between the Holy Country and Pamaltela: 1. The Issaries cult maintains market-temples in Teshnos, East Isles, Teleos, Maslo, Fonrit, and Umathela. A lot of these temples got established in the last 30 years by Issaries priests from the Holy Country. Trade can take place safely between different peoples at these markets that are made and protected by Issaries' magic. 2. There are likely small settlements for merchants. Most are going to be established by agreement between the Issaries cult and the local rulers - few are going to be as autonomous as Dosakayo on Melba, which is essentially an independent city-state, but many rulers will likely find it useful to have a place where foreign merchants can reside, store their goods, etc. Especially if they get paid for it. 3. Nochet has almost 10,000 inhabitants that are not from Central Genertela (Holy Country, Maniria, Dragon Pass, Lunar Empire). That's a large city's worth of foreigners. That also includes people from Fonrit, Umathela, and Maslo.

It is approximately 4250 kilometers from the Holy Country to Pamaltela, although most sailors travel clockwise around the Homeward Ocean, taking about 3 weeks to get to Maslo, give or take a few days. To put that in context, the distances involved are significantly less than crossing the Atlantic from continental Europe to the Caribbean or North America. However, such travel is neither easy nor routine - the Closing of the Seas was overcome a little more than 40 years ago. For comparison, Columbus' first voyage to the Caribbean was in 1492; 40 years later Pizarro sacked Cuzco. However, our Genertela explorers and traders do not enjoy a significant military, technological, or magical advantage over the civilizations of Pamaltela. We generally get merchant entrepots rather than conquests. That being said, piracy is a great concern, and the Wolf Pirates are now numerous and strong enough to seize places by force. In places like Nochet, Handra, Noloswal, and Dosakayo, trade with Pamaltela (and other overseas lands) is an important part of life and exotic fashions, spices, and other luxuries are going to be known and easily found (albeit expensive). Nochet has had more than a generation of such trade, and the other big Genertelan ports are catching up. In Boldhome or Furthest, such trade is rarer and more sporadic, but it is present. Issaries caravans do bring overseas goods over Dragon Pass and into the Lunar Empire, with huge profits. Within the Lunar Heartlands, Pamaltela is a distant imaginary fairytale but luxury goods from there command huge sums.

New Crystal City is an odd place. NEW CRYSTAL CITY (SMALL CITY) After Belintar dug the New River, he constructed this city using a fragment of the Gift of the Sun Crystal. Belintar grew the fragment into a huge crystalline building with spires of green, blue, yellow, red, and white. Around the crystal palace, he laid out a city to guard passage along the New River. New Crystal City has around 5,000 residents, and it is an important offloading point for trade going into Dragon Pass. New Crystal city has major temples to Ernalda, Orlanth Thunderous, and a local variant of Yelmalio, minor temples to Argan Argar, Orlanth Adventurous, Chalana Arroy, Engizi, Issaries, and Lhankor Mhy, and shrines to Babeester Gor, Maran Gor, Humakt, Esrola, and Ty Kora Tek. So of course there are trade caravans that go from New Crystal City - and I suspect most are Grazelander pony caravans. Rich Post is only about 40 km away after all. But the volume of that trade is dwarfed by the caravans that go from Karse to Boldhome to Alda-Chur to Furthest.

And the main trade route between Nochet and Sartar was screwed up for about a decade. By 1628 it starts to stabilise and by 1630 it is about as secure as it has ever been.

Post-the Opening? Almost all goods of Teshnite or Kralorelan origin that makes it to the rich rulers of Peloria came through Sartar - and the Sartarites get the first claim on whatever goes through.

This map shows the original flow of the Creek-Stream River (in red) through to Karse. But Belintar dammed the river when he made the Lead Hills and then dug a deep ditch (shades of Paul Bunyan) for it to link up with the Lyksos River. Prior to the Dragonkill, the banks of Creek-Stream River were the most densely populated areas in Dragon Pass, and the trolls cooperated with the rulers. Now they are inhabited by Beast People, zombies, dragonewts, and dwarfs - and the trolls of the Shadow Plateau are no longer under anyone's direction.

This is perhaps easiest with reference to a map. As you can see, river traffic first needs to get to the Dammed Marsh north of the Shadow Plateau. That's troll country. Then you need to follow the New River, which is the north bank is Esrolian, but the south bank is troll, at least until you get to the Building Wall. Back in the Second Age, much of the Creek-Stream River was considered to be "difficult or impossible due to the general lay of the land" - I doubt that is changed. Barges did travel up and down the river - I suspect back then the rulers were able to built towpaths, so the barges were towed by oxen or even dinosaurs!

No doubt the Lunar invasion of the Holy Country was bad for business. What had been the safest leg of any journey became the worst, with trolls imposing new tolls, bandits, and even scorpion men. The Lunars were not numerous enough to patrol the roads, and much of their army was bogged down in siege warfare or garrison duties.

As an aside, there is nothing "new" to the Lunar Empire. Lunar Society has been around for almost four centuries, and Dara Happan aristocratic resistance was broken three and a half century ago. For more than a century, that Dara Happan aristocracy is almost entirely Lunarized. So although there are no doubt many families that insist that they are Old Traditionalists and proudly insist that their women refuse to initiate a divorce, legally all a woman needs to do is join the dominant cult in the Lunar Empire, that just happens to be the main pillar of the empire, and is headed by the Red Emperor himself.

The Creek Stream River drops some 700 meters in around 300 km between Duck Point and Nochet - much of it in territory controlled by Beast People or Trolls. That's not nearly as easy as the nice straight roads of Sartar, protected by a nice friendly Orlanthi Prince. That nice friendly Orlanthi Prince of course charges tolls. But the only "monopoly" granted is to Issaries, who gets to oversee all markets.