Jeff

So basically David's complaint is that Gloranthan sorcerers make lousy adventurers. I agree for the most part. LM sorcerers work (I've now seen enough in play) because they are using their sorcery to enhance their information gathering abilities. Same thing with Irrippi Ontor sorcerers - they are largely using it to enhance their core abilities (and that Discern Lightfore spell can be surprisingly useful). But these cults aren't pure sorcerers - they are just replacing their (rather lame) spirit magic with sorcery. Pure sorcerers - by that I assume you mean Rokari or Loskalmi wizard - aren't intended to be adventurers (especially given that the Invisible God is not even detailed at this point). Its RuneQuest, so yes, you can play them (just like you can play a malfunctioning dwarf or a rootless elf) but you are swimming upriver. That's not that the RQG sorcery rules are problematic, but that you seem to have a different view of what sorcerers are than the writers of the setting and the game.

Greg once told tell me that to keep the goddess Glorantha alive and eternally youthful, he needed to be an Arkati Trickster Shaman. Now that that duty has fallen to me, I've donned my coyote mask and taken on the role. It is fitting that I've decided to revisit Greg's heroquest to discover Elmal, only this time to reject that god in favour of restoring the god he had supplanted - Yelmalio. Elmal was discovered to answer an important question for Greg's Harmast novel, a book that he worked on fitfully from 1989 until 2009 or so. Harmast was set in the late First Age, some 400 years after the Dawn. Greg posed himself the question - who was the Orlanthi Sun God before the Orlanthi encountered the Yelm-worshipers of Peloria? In the early drafts of the novel, the answer to that question was Yelmalio. Yelmalio was the last light that survived the Darkness. He held out throughout the Greater Darkness, although he became weaker and weaker, after being robbed by Orlanth, Inora, and Zorak Zoran, and then savaged by Chaos. But he endured and was not extinguished and was there to greet the Dawn. But that's the Third Age myth - what was the story at the Dawn? Greg concluded that the Orlanthi recognised this god as Elmal, who loyally protected the people of Dragon Pass throughout the Greater Darkness. When Orlanth left on his Lightbringers Quest, Elmal remained behind, "the loyal thane". At the Dawn, Elmal took the Sun Disk and carried it through the sky as the Sun God. Presumably, he is also Lightfore, the "little sun" that appeared in the Grey Age and who rises when the Sun sets, and sets when the Sun rises. This might mean that Elmal never died - he is always in the Sky. When he sets in the West with the Sun Disk, he immediately rises as Lightfore in the East, and vice versa. Let's fast forward to the late Third Age. We know that there is Yelmalio all over the place. Sun Domes in Sartar, Prax, and all over Genertela. We know he is the main Fire/Sky god worshiped in Dragon Pass - heck, he is in White Bear Red Moon and his most famous initiate Is Rurik Runespear. So where did Yelmalio come from? Greg's answers were properly contradictory, as is the nature of such things. He came from the elves. He came from Monrogh's Vision of the Many Suns. He was revealed by Nysalor at the Battle of fNight and Day. All are correct, all are partially false. Or least not entirely true. But equally, all contain some truth. Then came the real tough question - what is the status of Elmal in the late Third Age? And by that I mean Hero Wars Sartar. Greg let others answer that question as his interest was in the First Age. He didn't know. David Dunham tried to answer it in his amazing computer game, King of Dragon Pass. Elmal is one off the main gods in that game, and Yelmalio is nowhere to be seen. But like a number of elements in that game, that never seemed right to me. And later Greg let me know that he agreed with my doubts. Note: that is not a dig at KoDP which I consider to be the best introduction to Glorantha ever made. But there are elements of the game that never set right with me. Elmal. Anglo-Saxon clothing and skin colour. Etc. These are tiny critiques of a master piece, and pertinent only in an essay like this. As I worked on the Guide to Glorantha with Greg back in 2012, Greg hinted that we should be reconsidering Elmal. Vinga had already been revealed to be the female incarnation of Orlanth, and not merely another Thunder Brother. Yelmalio, Greg suggested, was the main Sun God of the Third Age Orlanthi. And so Yelmalio got much more attention in the Guide to Glorantha than Elmal did. As I started putting together RuneQuest, Greg and I talked about the player character cults. "Gotta have Yelmalio," Greg said. "We've always had Yelmalio in RuneQuest." The elemental progression wheel and the conflict between Air and Fire are hard-wired into the rules. The Storm fights with the Sun. That's a driving theme in the setting and the game mechanics reflect that. But where does that put Elmal? We didn't even include poor Elmal in the book. In the Cults Book, the time to evade the question is over. This is a game book, not a speculative collection off essays. So here's the answer: Yelmalio is the Sun God of Dragon Pass and the Lunar Provinces. The Yelm cult among the Grazelander Pure Horse People is the exception that proves the rule. Since the 1550s or so, even most of the solar worshipers among the Sartarites have agreed that Yelmalio is the god of the Cold Sun. Elmal is still present - as a subcult of Yelmalio. If you want to have your Elmal cultist who is allied to Orlanth and the loyal defender of the Orlanthi clan, you can. He just has the ignominy of being treated as a member of a special Yelmalio subcult. And the even greater insult of being largely ignored by the Sartarite Orlanth cult. But Elmal can endure. And who knows, he might endure long enough for Arkat to need to betray his gods and become a passionate devotee of something old, something new. Who knows - I mean it has happened before!

Or they were a rejected name for the Esrolian Python. Which is more to the case.

Which is how it should be. In the societies that sorcery predominates, a tiny minority of the population are sorcerers, protected and supported by the rest of the population. In some societies, the sorcerers are a literal Ivory Tower, removed completely from the experience and problems of the rest of society, so that they might better focus on what really matters - rigorous logic and abstract reasoning! In others, to become a sorcerer requires experiencing the suffering of the rest of society, so that you might better understand existence. The most powerful human sorcerers mentioned in the Guide are of great age - Theoblanc is over 150 years old and those great sorcerer-warriors of Loskalm all did their studies during the Ban (when everything functioned perfectly - including training and experience gains). The God Learners accomplished their wonders through heroquesting as much as through sorcery - but their techniques are fortunately mostly lost.

Sorcerers have always sucked against spirit magicians. Why do you think the Hykimi gave them such nightmares?

You clearly know more than me. I guess I will stop working with the developers on it. Honestly, when the licensor says there is a game in the works, why on earth do you feel the need to correct the people working on the game?

Do you mean Wolf Pirates or Yggites? The Yggites have names like Orstando, Gotti, etc. Not particularly Norse. They had clans when they lived on the Yggs Islands, but for the Wolf Pirates their social order is structured around their ships.

There are smaller fleets Wolf Pirates in Seshnela and Jrustela. There are also some in Laskal and elsewhere. But by far the largest fleet of the Wolf Pirates is based out of the Three Step Islands and follow Harrek. These other fleets are much smaller, and probably all of them together are smaller than Harrek's fleet.

Some current notes on the premier pirates of the Third Age. Overview In 1621 there are some 60+ Wolf Pirate ships, before Harrek's circumnavigation. Let's say that losses get replaced and by 1625, we have 60+ ships operating in the Choralinthor Bay, which comes out to about 3100+ Wolf Pirates. The average Wolf Pirate ship has on average 50 warrior-rowers, 1 captain, and 5 officers. Each ship has a small Dormal shrine and a protective spirit housed in the figurehead on the prow. Although they started in the Yggs Islands, by 1625 the Wolf Pirates are multi-ethnic, as soldiers, refugees, outlaws, and adventurers have joined Harrek's fleet. Yggs Islanders now form a relatively small minority of the Wolf Pirates. The lingua franca among the Wolf Pirates is a Theyalan creole made out of a simplified Ygg Islander with strong influences from Rathori and Jonating, Many Wolf Pirates also use Tradetalk. Wolf Pirates national origin No. Origin % 620 Yggs Islands 20% 620 other Fronelans 20% 155 Malkioni heretics 5% 310 Maniria 10% 310 Sartar 10% 310 Holy Country 10% 155 Teshnites 5% 310 Fonrit 10% 310 Other 10% Society The basic unit of social organization for the Wolf Pirates is the ship crew. Joining a ship's crew is an initiation into that community - the crew worships the spirit of their ship. Every crew elects its own captain and officers. Every Wolf Pirate is entitled to an equal vote when choosing their captain and officers; but once chosen, the captain and officers must be obeyed unless replaced or personally challenged. Every crew member gets an equal share of any plunder, except that the officers get two shares, and the captain three. The Wolf Pirates welcome anyone into their society who is willing to live by their rules. Captives are offered this opportunity if they have the skills, and many folk seek them out when they are in a neutral port, or even raiding the mainland. Others take ship or boat and sail to Three-Step to join. There are about 60 captains, which means that is the approximate number of important people. Harrek is a captain as well as Sea-King, as is Gold Gotti. Gunda is a captain as well as Harrek's chief lieutenant. Harrek the Berserk is the unquestioned Sea-King. Although all have the right to challenge his decision, none dare contradict the savage demi-god. Harrek bound the Wolf Pirates to him is a combination of ways: 1. He was "chosen" by Ygg. That probably means that the priests of Ygg all recognised him as the incarnation of Vadrus and backed him strongly. They continue to do so as long as he continues to bring destruction and war to the world. 2.He is incredibly charismatic! Harrek might not be pretty, but he clearly has divine favour. 3. He is incredibly dangerous in personal combat and is apparently immune to magical attacks, poison, and spirits. Harrek always accepts personal challenges and then wears the challengers heart around his neck. 4. He brings in a ceaseless flow of plunder, tribute, and slaves. Since 1621, Harrek has plundered the world. He has plundered the City of Wonders (richer than even Glamour), not to mention Noloswal and countless other cities. The Wolf Pirates operate on a "no prey, no pay" system - and with Harrek there is always prey. Any one of Harrek's campaigns have been more lucrative than all the non-Harrek campaigns put together. The rank and file Wolf Pirates LOVE Harrek. He is their meal ticket. Warfare The Wolf Pirates do most of their fighting on land. In sea battles, they try to board enemy ships and use their superior numbers of warriors to overwhelm their victims. On land, the Wolf Pirates use a variety of arms and armor. Wealthy pirates often wear corselets of bronze and linen, or just out of boiled leather. They are famed for their horned or feathered helmets. They use javelins as distance weapons, and engage with sword and shield. Religion The most important cults of the Wolf Pirates is Orlanth (about a third of all Wolf Pirates are initiates of Orlanth) and Ygg (about 20% of all Wolf Pirates are initiates of Ygg). The next most important cults are Dorma (more than 10% of all Wolf Pirates are initiates of the Sailing God) and Humakt (nearly 10% worship the God of War). Gods of lesser importance include Valind, various Sea Gods, Hrestol, Arkat, the Two Brothers, Abdamedric, and Tolat. History The Wolf Pirates originate on Yggs Islands, a small chain of forested islands off the northern coast of Fronela. They were visited by Dormal in 1583, and the Islanders returned to the seas. The Yggs Islanders fought a long war with the Kingdom of Loksalm. About two dozen Wolf Pirate ships left Yggs Islands in 1598, and defeated the Loskalmi fleet. For a dozen years, these pirates plagued the West. Many settled on the island of Ginorth, in Old Seshnela. In 1607, Gunda the Guilty, a Jonating warrior-woman became a Wolf Pirate ship captain, and within a few years, made herself one of the leading Wolf Pirate leaders. In 1610, the Wolf Pirates settle on Three Step Isles, barren islands south of Kethaela that had been abandoned since the Dawn. This has became the main base of the Wolf Pirates. In 1615, Harrek was chosen by the god Ygg to lead the Wolf Pirates and be their Sea-King. He led the Wolf Pirates to raid the Genertela coast from Fronela to Prax, sailing as far abroad as Jrustela. In 1621 Harrek led his Wolf Pirates on a three-year voyage around the Homeward Ocean, raiding Teshnos, Teleos, Font, Umathela, Jrustela, and Seshnela, before returning to Kethaela in early 1624. Surprisingly, he allied with several Kethaelan leaders to fight the Lunar Empire at Pennel Ford. Later that year, he received his reward and plundered the magical City of Wonders. For the next several years, the Wolf Pirates raid Kethaela with impunity. In 1628, the Kethaelans agree to follow Argrath of Sartar if the new Prince can get rid of Harrek and the Wolf Pirates. The Prince achieves this by allying with Harrek, and that year, half the Wolf Pirates follow Argrath over the Dragonspine into Tarsh. Although Harrek later quarrels with Argrath and leaves Dragon Pass altogether in 1631, many of the Wolf Pirates that followed Argrath into Dragon Pass remain. Notes Three-Step Islands The main island is about 50 miles long and 10 miles wide, so about 500 square miles. or about the size of Rhodes or Lesbos, or about the size of Oahu. A substantial island-bound population has settled on Three Step Islands now. These are wives, concubines, and families of the pirates, as well as refugees, merchants, shop-keepers, and fishermen who make the pirates lives bearable upon the isle. There are even a few farmers and a large number of sheep-herders. The only sizeable settlement is Skullport, which serves as the main port of operations for Harrek's fleet. Given that the Wolf Pirates themselves are transient, Skullport is normally populated largely by slaves capture by the Wolf Pirates, and by those foreign merchants (including Vadeli), shopkeepers, wine sellers, entertainers, and prostitutes who live of the pirate's plunder. It is estimated that there is at least one drinking house for every ten residents.

At this point in time, the main piratical slavers in the core areas are going to be the Wolf Pirates - who spend much of 1624-1628 raiding, pillaging, and slave-taking throughout Kethaela.

You are aware how long it takes to develop a computer game? Just like with Call of Cthulhu, I wouldn't expect anything until about a year or so before launch.

Since I wrote the sorcery rules in HQG and in RQG, it could well be that I think I got it wrong in HQG.

They are the official rules.

This place isn't going to become like The RPGSite or theRPGnet or the RPG Pub - none of which are sites I particularly enjoy. This is a site for civilised and friendly discussion about a variety of games associated with BRP and Chaosium. We don't want to have to do much work moderating, and are very willing to largely work on the honor system. If folk can't behave within these very minimal requirements, then we have to take action.

Joerg, Peter - this is not the place for personal sniping or snark. Behave in a civilised manner or I'll lock down the thread.

For many Malkioni, the answer to question 1 is most important. In the Second Age, most orthodox Malkioni held that the gods are powerful but limited beings that can be made to serve the interest of men. The God Learners studied and even worshiped the gods to understand them - which thereby allowed them to use the gods to further their goals. In the Third Age, the Rokari and New Hrestoli- both being a reaction against the God Learners - reject worship of "mere Rune holders" (although of course they still worship city guardians, and other minor entities in exchange for magic).

Hsunchen start with BOTH the Beast and Man runes. They are in opposition. Hsunchen magicians try to get their Beast Rune as high as possible - to be the wolf, the bear, the deer, whatever. This is the same as Humakti trying to get their Death and Truth runes as high as possible - but they still have some tie to Life and Illusion. So Bödvar Bjarki has Beast of 85% and Man of 15%. He's STRONGLY Beast Rune and can't really act against that Rune without consequences. But he still has Man at 15% and can enter human society (but generally doesn't like it). His brothers Elk-Froði and Þorir Houndsfoot are more extreme, with Beast of 95% and Man of only 5%. They live in the wilderness like beasts, but even they are able to enter human society when it is time to avenge their brother.

As most of you all know, the Invisible God will not be making an appearance in the Cults of Glorantha - as sorcery really needs a full treatment, and the so will be getting its own book. At its core, all variants of Malkionism are ways of addressing the following questions. 1. What is the relationship between mortals and gods? This ranges from treating the gods as nothing more than anthropomorphised natural forces (like with the Brithini) to permitting worship of specific deities as favoured emanations or agents of the Invisible God (as is common among henotheist Malkionism). 2. Who is allowed to learn sorcery? This might be a small elite (hereditary or meritocratic), potentially everyone but practically restricted to a few, or everyone. The last is very rare except among a few transgressive sects. 3. What is the relationship between sorcerers and the rest of society? Sorcerers are sometimes removed from society as a "sacred" caste surrounded by taboos and restrictions. In other societies, sorcerers are the rulers of society. And in still others, they advise but do not rule. 4. What is the ideal form of human society? Malkionism encourages people to look at abstract ideals as the perfect form of something (and that sorcery is the technique of bringing the material world in compliance with that perfect form). But what is the ideal form of human society? Logically human society is divided into castes or classes, but how are those chosen and comprised?

There will be a lot of material on Jonstown soon.

A Hsunchen uses Beast to do their magic. They are beasts after all. If the Hsunchen becomes too much Man, they cease to be able to be Hsunchen. You planning on playing a Gold Wheel Dancer?

It was a strange review IMO. I made a very deliberate decision not to include Pamaltelan or Jrusteli or even Teshnite/Kralorelan monsters unless they are likely to appear in the "core lands". And other creatures he seemed upset about not appearing may not actually exist in Glorantha.

We deliberately dropped the thrust weapon penalties - as they were really fiddly (and I recall my buddy Mike O'Connor demonstrating how silly they were in practice).

Your Fetch is pure Spirit. You are Man (or Beast) as you are a mortal, physical entity that either lives in society (Man) or lives with nature (Beast). We concluded there is little actual game value to having a Spirit Rune in conflict with anything else. So if you want to put the Spirit Rune on your character sheet, draw it on. There are plenty of Runes that aren't an important part of a mortal character (unless you are an elf - then swap out Beast with Plant).

We didn't see them as being Glorantha or RuneQuest. And also we both thought snakes were pretty cool.

New Uz content, not reprint.