Jeff

I cheated a little bit with my examples, since I spend my winter holidays every year in the Vinschgau (my in-laws are Bavarian and I spend the holidays skiing with my father-in-law) and as a result I am very familiar with what you can get there. It is a very old wine-growing area (at least since the 1st C BC, probably much earlier). There has been a trend in the last century or so towards beer consumption (probably a by-product of better transport systems), but wine is still the drink for evening meals, much more so than say in northern Germany (where I live). But if we go back to my original post, beer is drunk in all agricultural lands. It is just too easy to make. But in Dragon Pass and Kethaela, it has a lesser "cache" then wine. You'd drink beer while working in the fields. You drink wine to honour the gods or your companions. Or to get drunk. If you really want to impress, you drink mead or honey-wine. In Dara Happa, rice wine or rice beer is traditionally consumed (rice after all is the main crop in the Tripolis), although there is probably some viticulture in the West Reaches (white wine only - it is too cold for good reds). Now that doesn't mean the Lunar nobility doesn't drink wine like fishes - like the ancient Gauls, they buy it by the amphora, hauled all the way from Kethaela by mule. You've got daughters of the Red Emperor who snobbily compare a Vinavale red with a Longs red ("there's no comparison, you fool!"), and swear by the even more expensive Tanisor sweet red ("flavoured with cedar resin from Tarinwood!").

True enough, but keep in mind that the Kalikos Quest only started in the middle of the 7th Wane (7/22 to be precise, or 1590 for you barbarians).

Both Lanbril and Black Fang are going in the forthcoming Pavis and Big Rubble books. Mythologically both cults are pretty insignificant. Lanbril may have lots of stories about himself, but nobody else bothers to tell stories about him. They are important for understanding Pavis, but not for understanding Glorantha, if that makes any sense.

That's not why Voria would get included. Voriof is handled just fine as a short associated cult of Orlanth Adventurous. The reason for including Voria is that as the goddess of Spring, she is part of a much larger and more important mythological web.

That's the Southern California bias coming out! Actually, you can grow wine in some places with surprisingly cold winters, and even wet summers. I tend to think of much of Dragon Pass being loosely comparable to Switzerland, Austria, and Northern Italy (or to areas in the Balkans like Bulgaria, northern Greece, or Romania), all of which have very long traditions of wine-making. You are correct that good red wine does require long dry summers and moderate winters, but white wines don't. As an aside, the Lunar Heartland is climate-wise more like the upper Missouri or Mississippi valleys, with cold winters and hot summers. I know of far more good wines from the Vinschgau than I do from Illinois.

Initially that was what I thought I would do as well. But I started to put together the Heroquesting material, I realised I needed to have all the "core cults" in one collection. Otherwise it was just making more work.

I suggest folk look at the list of cults I already posted. The cults included are those necessary to tell what I think needs to be told. This is not intended to be every possible cult - but it is a big list.

I'd add a few fancier armors to RQ, strip out Runes, use spirit magic and sorcery but no Rune Magic. Or I'd use KAP.

Correct! As was stated in my original post.

I think apple wine and cider are common throughout Dragon Pass and Peloria. Cider is drunk "young," apple wine needs to be aged.

And you can imagine the low esteem the wine-drinking Colymar have for the beer-swilling Lismelder. "Ducks and Grey Dogs, both ignorant of the Sweet Green Woman's blessings!"

Correct and correct. Clearwine proper is an iced wine, although most of the stuff called Clearwine is actually just a white wine. A tasty one though - probably similar to a nice dry Riesling.

They aren't found outside of Maniria, but they are REALLY important in Caladraland. So much so that that you can't really get the Holy Country without being aware of their cult.

It is really big. Somewhere around 350k words. The Guide itself was 460k words.

Many cults have plenty of sub cults. Some don't.

One thing I tried to emphasise in the rule book - when Rune Magic is cast, you ARE the god. When you see texts referring to the "Orlanthi gods" showed up at the battle, or similar phrasing, that usually means that there was a lot of Rune magic being used.

I totally spaced some other important drinks: KVAS or KUMIS: fermented milk from horse, bison, high llama, or other herd beast. Low alcohol content. Drunk by Praxians, Grazelanders, Sartarites, and some Lunars. FRUIT WINE and CIDER: Beverages made from apple, pears, plums, berries, etc. are popular throughout Dragon Pass and Peloria.

Yes. He's the Dara Happan name for him.

For what it is worth, I've done a lot of thinking about alcoholic beverages in Glorantha. Important Note: *STORM TRIBE and THUNDER REBELS are not canon. BEER: Everyone in agricultural lands drinks beer. It is the most common drink of the Pelorian basin (but see Rice Wine), less so in the lands south of Kero Fin. Many varieties of beer are known. Beer is closely connected with bread making (the yeast from beer is used to make dough). WINE: South of Kero Fin, wine is the most popular drink. White wine is grown throughout Heartland and Sartar. Red wine in Caladraland and Esrolia. Most commoners drink watered-wine, unadulterated wine is drunk by the wealthy and in festivals. The Lunar nobility values wine greatly. The ice wine brewed in Colymar lands and the red wines of Vinavale are particularly valued. MEAD: A high status sweet drink. Particularly popular in Dragon Pass. BURNED WINE: This Sartarite alchemical drink is claimed to be either the invention of the Lhankor Mhy cult or the result of a misuse of Dwarf artifacts. RICE WINE: In old Dara Happa, rice wine was the preferred drink of the urban population. It is still the main drink of the Lunar urban population. CORN BEER: Drunk throughout the Lunar Provinces, Doblian and Oraya satrapies. This low-alcohol drink is thick and creamy with a sour taste.

Be patient. All shall be revealed soon enough.

Heroquesting will likely be about a third of the GM Sourcebook.

So I am wrapping up the text of this book, while making sure that it all ties into both the new Heroquesting chapters in the GM Sourcebook and into the Hero Wars Campaign. It is increasingly looking like this will be a two-volume book, as it includes the long form of more than 70 cults. It is perhaps easier to say what the book does not have: The Invisible God of the West. This needs its own book, as my notes keep expanding. Additionally, the Invisible God needs to provide a materialist and humanist interpretation of the Gods and Goddess book - and serve as the Sorcery Book. So this one gets pushed into its own book. Godunya and the East. Same deal. Pamalt and the South. Same deal - I toyed around with including Pamalt in this book, even wrote up his cult. BUT I've concluded that it would make far more sense to include Pamalt and his version of the pantheon in a Pamaltela facing book. Minor gods of purely local importance, such as Pavis, Lanbril, Flintnail, other city gods, etc. These are better placed in their settings. Deities that can be better handled as masks or variant names of other deities, e.g., Elmal, Buserian, etc. So what is left? Well the book is more than 50% bigger than what was previewed at GenCon and has been pretty intensively revised. Here's the current list of cults that are definitely in it: Kyger Litor Annilla Argan Argar Gorakiki Xiola Umbar Zorak Zoran Magasta Choralinthor Dormal Engizi Oslira Ernalda Aldrya Asrelia Babeester Gor Caladra & Aurelion Donandar Eiritha Flamal The Grain Goddesses Hykim & Mikyh (includes Telmor and Basmol) Maran Gor Mostal Ty Kora Tek Uleria Yelm Dayzatar Dendara Gorgorma Lodril Lokarnos Lowfires Polaris Shargash Yelmalio Orlanth Chalana Arroy Eurmal Issaries Lhankor Mhy Daka Fal Foundchild Heler Humakt Mastakos Odayla Storm Bull Valind Waha Yinkin Seven Mothers Danfive Xaron Deezola Etyries Hon-eel Hwarin Dalthippa Irrippi Ontor Jakaleel Nysalor Red Goddess Yanafal Tarnils Primal Chaos Bagog Cacodemon Crimson Bat Krarsht Krjalk Mallia Pocharngo Thanatar Thed Vivamort I am still debating about whether to add Horned Man, Triolina, Subere, Wachaza, and Voria to the list. For me this has been comparable to writing the Guide - especially realising how these various groupings of gods overlap, intersect, and form a magical whole. Even in the West, South, and East, these are the deities that form the cosmic foundation (although often with different names and different stories).

I don't think Veskerele is worshiped by thieves.

Here is a discussion Kalin and I had about art history that might shed a bit more light The Dawn At the Dawn there were basically two cultural centers - Dragon Pass (the Theyalans) and Peloria. Dragon Pass The Theyalans had a tradition of "realistic" art thanks to the Architect and the Artist (both of whom were active in the Holy Country). Moreover, they had access to dwarf crafters. Dragonewts and elves. Whatever this "Theyalan style" was it got spread all over the place, but also was probably really diverse. Individual artists did things in individual ways. Peloria Meanwhile in Peloria, you start with court art that is intended to appeal to the Sons of the Sun. Lots of gold, horses, sun disks, etc. And it should contrast with Theyalan art by not being realistic or naturalistic. So very formal, very precise and almost abstracted at times. When Dara Happa is formed, the new empire takes some of the ideas of the Theyalans and starts making sculptures of important gods and rulers. Who are the same thing. And they look at the Gods Wall for style. Because of course there are Pre-Dawn relics. Just like in Dragon Pass - we have relics from ancient times. Broken statues of unknown gods. You also start getting more and more concentrated wealth in the later First Age. Temples can really go nuts commissioning artists. And with the World Council, the Theyalans and the Pelorians can hire each other. So from Ralios to the Redlands, Peloria, Dragon Pass, and Maniria all have some common influences. Regional differences, but also common influences. So a rich Yelm temple might hire artists, only for them to later work for a Heortling king or Orlanth temple. So a cross-pollination of symbols and styles. That means is that we don't go back to the First Age to get differences in artistic styles in the Third Age. The First Age is a shared language. Second Age So everything collapses at the end of the First Age. War and poverty. A collapse, which in turn leads to reduction in complexity in artwork. A Dark Age from about 450 to 600 or so. In Dragon Pass, you end up with a vibrant civilisation around 700. But they don't have the dwarfs around to help them. And a lot more trollish influences. So imagine something less "realistic" and powerfully primitive. Basic shapes, essentially. But done with lots of wealth. This is people working off copies of copies, without the skills to do it. Dragon Pass Now then around 800 things change. The Dragon Pass kingdom gets REALLY wealthy. And obsessed with esoteric symbolism. And is in contact with the Middle Sea Empire. And things get sensuous and baroque. This is the formation of what we call the Esrolian style. Think the baroque art of medieval India. Whereas the MSE is more Hellenistic baroque. Very idealised baroque work.. Peloria Meanwhile, in Peloria thanks to the Carmanians you get a much more austere idealised form. We are of course talking about the richer temples and rulers. Smaller temples are left behind. So the Theyalans (or at least Esrolians) still maintain some of that stiffer, older look to it. And villages still do stuff like they always did. But Carmania establishes a much less baroque style in Peloria. This is one of the big splits. Which, in turn, echoes the divide that existed before the First Age too. Where the EWF is going for Indian baroque, the Carmanian and Dara Happans are going for something more austere and idealised. More stylized and austere styles in the north, more "naturalistic" and descriptive art in the south. To put it roughly, the Pelorians evoke ideas, the Theyalans depict things. EWF The MSE is providing influence in Esrolia - you get rich temples hiring crafters from the MSE for technique skill. But they are super cosmopolitan. (With infinitely more nuance than that of course). And might throw in weird references from Kralorela or Fonrit or Seshnela or whatever. So in Esrolia, you basically establish super-baroque. Great technique, lush symbolism, but very naturalistic and sensuous. In Dragon Pass and South Peloria, it is as baroque, but less sensuous and more abstract and symbolic. Here the influence of the dragons is the greatest. And in Peloria, it is more austere, idealised, and formal. Also they have the Gods Wall to go back on. With Dragon Pass in the middle, being a mixture of both, yet also adding its own draconic twist just to make things unique: In Esrolia, she is depicted as this lush and sensual dancing woman, surrounded by a dazzling array of flowers, grains, husband protectors, worshipers, lesser goddesses. She overwhelms with splendor to the point where your senses can't even take it all in. In Peloria, she is very formal and strict. She looks much like the other goddesses, just more so. Or maybe she is naked and the others are clothed. In Dragon Pass, she is looser than Peloria, dancing like she is in Esrolian artwork. There are still goddesses, husbands and flowers around her, but there is also other stuff. Strange runes, which almost look like hers, but aren't. The snakes around her look...odd, and not quite right. And some of the flowers do not look entirely real. In Peloria she is very formalised. But in Dragon Pass – it is something which anyone from around them, let alone a previous or later Age would just stare at and go "What even is going on here?" Now during the time that the EWF rules Dara Happa, this style gets imposed there as well. But it doesn't catch on. Too weird and uncultured and not properly structured The Closing Then the seas Close. Esrolia is cut off from the MSE, and its art loses some of its technical brilliance, and gets even more baroque and less understandable. Meanwhile in Peloria, the Carmanians react against the most obviously EWF stuff, but they are conquering and expanding, so they are hiring artists trained by the EWF but being told Be More Formal! Third Age And then comes a long period of war that culminates in the Dragonkill War. Which divides the world into Kethaela and Peloria. Kethaela and Sartar Kethaela starts with that late Second Age Esrolian style. Sensuous and baroque. Though regressed a bit and gets worse and worse at it. Since you don't have the actual artisans present anymore. Until Belintar shows up. And Belintar oversees a rich artistic renaissance. And he's of course a thorough God Learner, with baroque references on top of baroque references. So the style remains mostly the same, but revitalized. Not "realistic" but symbolic and mythological. And he draws on the Esrolians, the Heortlings, the Caladralanders, the God Forgotites, the trolls, and the dwarfs to create a visual melting point. And the Kethaelans get their technical skills back. The way the ornamentation and detailing is made is changed as a result of communication from the dwarfs of Gemborg. Intricate decoration. At some point, the style is a reference to a reference to itself. So whereas the Second Age stuff was naturalistic verging on weird abstractions (like in the eyes and so on), under Belintar, temple architecture was naturalistic but not formalised. Belintar tries to recreate that very spread out and universal First Age Style. And of course this just goes nuts with the Opening. Because the Holy Country is now stupid rich. Now when Sartar gets settled, they bring this artistic tradition with them. Sartar and his heirs hire artists from the Holy Country. But Orlanth is the focus. It is not as baroque. It is more martial, more masculine. And generally technically cruder, except for the dwarf-made stuff from Sartar's time. Which is technically superb - even better than in the Holy Country. It is more masculine, more martial, more violent. And even more individualistic. Artists are very much encouraged to put their own spin on things. The overall style is there, of course, you can't really escape it. Peloria But, in Peloria, things are different. The EWF style are gone. And we have a long dark age. The Carmanians embrace a formal brutalism style. Them and their gods triumphing atop piles of dead. Think Assyrian palace style. Scenes of war and scenes of authority. The Lunar-Dara Happan revolt comes out of that tradition but tries to turn it upside down. With a naked goddess being the equal of a stern but benevolent Yelm. Standing on top of a pile of dead Carmanians and Pentans. But also we start getting new esotericism. It could be that the Red Goddess was not even initially depicted as a deity. But just as a woman. Deliberately smaller than the gods and rulers. Naked and human, but superior to the immortal gods. And she is not depicted in a formal manner. Idealised yes, but relaxed and in dance. The Yelm cult takes its cues from here as well. Yelm gets less formalised, although continues to be idealised. Maybe even more idealised. As the Lunar Empire gets richer, the art gets better, and becomes what we now call the Old Lunar style. We get a century and a half of this Old Lunar style. And then in 1375 the Pentans come. And for nearly a century, the Pentans reduce Peloria to grasslands. People are eating mud and each other. The Lunar Empire consists of the besieged center of Glamour, some barbaric kingdoms in the south, and the Western Reaches aka Old Carmania. Lunar art becomes cruder, poorer, and more emphatic. There is now no difference between Lunar and Dara Happan. There is simply Lunar-Pentan-Slave. Empathic in subject and very removed from the concerns of the world. Because in the real world Sheng Seleris rules. Minor victories or stalemates against Sheng Seleris are monumental triumphs! In a surprise, the Red Emperor defeats Sheng Seleris and confines him to a Lunar hell. The Pentans collapse. And now the Lunar Empire is able to resettle the New Grasslands of Peloria. This is where Lunar art comes from. Restore and Rebuild. New towns need to be built. Old cities need to be rebuilt. All quickly, all at the same time, and from the Oronin River to the Arcos. From the White Sea to the gates of Alkoth. Every town gets laid out more or less the same, with a temple complex to the Red Goddess, Yelm, Dendara, Lodril, and whoever else. All by the same architects and artists. And although directly supervised by the Red Emperor, Great Sister, or Hon-eel, it is initially done fast and on the cheap. And some a lot better than others. So we now have within the empire basically four styles. Three are old and can be found in 1. Glamour and the Tripolis, in the 2. Western Reaches, and in 3. Jillaro. But 4. is the most widespread and common. The New Lunar style or the Lunar Heartland style. Towns are built quick. And cheap. Art is initially easy to reproduce. Very stylised and formalised. But over the next century and a half, the empire gets richer and richer and richer. So this New Lunar style gets built upon, embellished, upgraded. More elaborate and more technically skilled. But it is still based off that original post-Sheng style. But now rich Lunar priests demand that the artist display technical virtuosity and work in all sorts of Lunar motifs and esoteric references. During Sheng's occupation, the shift towards more empathic and non-real world related themes in art also brings in another thing. The artwork starts to depict Yelm, Lodril, Dayzatar, and all the others as idealized and perfect. These almost calming presences in the world, a source of stability amongst the chaos and horror of Sheng’s rule. Yelm is no longer that stiff, formal, restricted thing on the Gods Wall. He is still that yes, but to the masses he is also the benevolent sun god. And the Red Goddess' divine father. As the occupation ends, as more art gets made and the more and more money gets pumped into it, this transforms. The New Gods, the seven mothers, Etyries , Hon-eel, etc. are depicted in a sensual, loose and free style. They are beautiful and relatable. The Celestial Gods meanwhile are beautiful, yet perfect. They are not sensual, they are not mere mortal things. They are the perfect geometry of the world, the cosmic order. A depiction of Hon-eel or Jar-eel or Etyries shows you an idealized reflection of you, the mortal viewer. They were born, they suffered, they transcended. Like the Goddess herself. The depiction of Yelm shows you something else though. something still beautiful, but in a different way. It is the beauty of perfect harmony. The beauty of the cosmic order of the Golden Age. So let's move this forward a tiny bit more. By the 7th Wane, the Lunar Empire is ruled by Yelm illuminates of the Red Goddess cult. For generations. They are self-referential by now. In the sense that their art needs to communicate with them and not so much other audiences. So in our magnificent great temple in Glamour, with gold and gems and glass, abstract depictions of Yelm and statues of Apollo, we have this crude little gold sun disk on a horse from the Dawn. :

The lower CHA stats for many creatures is not a cut and paste but a deliberate decision. Some creatures are simply not as blessed by divine favour as humans (and some are more so).