M Helsdon

The map seems to have triggered a discussion touching on things I hadn't imagined. This is a good thing. I generated the map because in my free time (which has been very limited in the last two or three months) I've been attempting to write a sourcebook for warfare primarily in central Genertela as a personal project. This has so far collected material by Greg Stafford, Sandy Petersen, Jeff Richards, Ian Cooper and Michael O'Brien as well as my own invention. One section was an appendix on the Sun Dome Temples. Whilst a minority cult in all but Saird and its temple-towns, the cult has been involved in almost every conflict since it was founded, sometimes on both sides. Below is the section on the early history, which requires some rework due to material I've received recently. Throughout the entire region of central Genertela, including the Lunar provinces, there are no more than fifteen major temples during the Hero Wars period. In the First Age, the God of the Sun Dome Temple was called Hastatus, God of the Spear (sometimes equated with Avivorus) or Antirius, the Dara Happan God of Order. Golden domes are a defining feature of the Sun Dome temples. The temple-fortress to Manimat and Antirius at Haranshold originally built in the First Age also boasts several gold domes. The city of Kesium is now best known for its golden-domed temple to Antirius, built by the Bright Eagle Lords of Rinliddi in the Dawn Age of Peloria. The first temple complex in the style of the later Sun Dome Temples was built by Kestingatha of Kesium, one of the Bright Eagle Lords. His temple of Antirius, a golden dome set atop a square base, was completed sometime between 145 and 155. Mahzanelm, an Emperor of the Khordavu Dynasty, conquered Rinliddi and Vanch around 345-350. The Dara Happans sought to ensure that the barbarian lands could be kept under their control. The Emperor commissioned the construction of a grand structure that would be both temple and a military enclave for his troops. This temple was in the form of a dome within a walled compound entered via a stepped walkway. One of the settlements the Emperor destroyed during his southern campaign was Lolon, inhabited since the Dawn. This was the home of the Tunoraling hunter-gatherers who worshipped Heliacal the Sun and his wife Negalla the Green Woman. After the First Theyalan War (366-368), more of the Dara Happan-style Sun Dome Temples were built – one was even built atop the ruins of Urar Baar (a troll trading place at the confluence of the Oslir and the Black Eel rivers). These were similar to the earlier temple built by Kestingatha, being set on a square base, which was now consecrated to Hastatus, the spear god. In all, five Sun Dome Temples served as Dara Happan military anchors to keep the rebellious Theyalans under the control of the High Council. It was at the Battle of Day and Night in 379 that the constructed god Nysalor revealed Daysenerus - an aspect of Antirius who brings Antirius’ Justice to the barbarians - to be the deity of the Sun Dome Temples. Daysenerus’ first deed when invoked was to crush the army of Kyger Litor and his first new temple was built upon the site of that victory. During the years that followed, new Sun Dome Temples dedicated to Daysenerus were built throughout the lands occupied by the Bright Empire. The Daysenerus cult was given good lands confiscated from rebellious Heortlings after the Theyalan Wars. The military might of these enclaves supported the rule of the Bright Empire. However, their association with Nysalor proved to be their downfall. When Arkat raised the Heortlings in their final successful rebellion, vengeful Orlanthi and their troll allies destroyed every Sun Dome Temple they encountered and eradicated the name Daysenerus from Peloria. According to Monrogh of Sartar, a dubious source, Sereventh in Sylila was the only temple to Daysenerus to survive the destruction of the Bright Empire. Other sources claim it was used by Ordanestyu in his Cold Light Fires Uprising and to revive the culture of Dara Happa after the fall of the Bright Empire.

Yelmalio and Daysenerus From: Greg Stafford Date: Tue 25 Jun 2002 - 19:23:07 EEST >From: Peter Metcalfe >>Daysenerus is its name as a messenger God of Antirius. I should not cling to >>my own self-styled view to Yelmalio as a Martyr / Scapegoat. > >He may have been revealed to the Dara Happans at the Battle of >Night and Day but Yelmalio did exist before that time and did >participate at the Hill of Gold. Yes, he did. Daysenerus is the First Age name of the god moderly known as Yelmalio. He may even be the same god as Antirius. http://glorantha.temppeli.org/digest/gd9/2002.06/0597.html Of course this isn't definitive, but nothing in Glorantha is...

Until your revelation I'd assumed that Yelorna was one of many 'Star Captains' who came to Earth to aid their worshippers in the Great Darkness. I'd puzzled over what her celestial star or planet might be but come to no conclusion. Equating her with Ourania makes the genealogy of the Sky/Solar deities even more tangled, though it is possible that all the Gloranthan divine genealogies have been created by the worshippers or God Learners attempting to project a discernable pattern to the relationships of their gods. Jeff is, of course, a God Learner... 8-)

If Yelmalio = Antirius, and Yelorna = Ourania there's a definite correspondence, as Ourania is the virginal etheric energy of heavenly power born from Dayzatar's thought, whilst her 'brother' is supposedly an emanation of Yelm of justice and victory.

As Ourania/Urania is one of the nine Muses in Classical Mythology, specifically the Muse of Astronomy, she'd be the patron of the Star Gazers? And Tethys bore to Ocean eddying rivers, Nilus, and Alpheus, and deep-swirling Eridanus, Strymon, and Meander, and the fair stream of Ister, and Phasis, and Rhesus, and the silver eddies of Achelous, Nessus, and Rhodius, Haliacmon, and Heptaporus, Granicus, and Aesepus, and holy Simois, and Peneus, and Hermus, and Caicus' fair stream, and great Sangarius, Ladon, Parthenius, Euenus, Ardescus, and divine Scamander. Also she brought forth a holy company of daughters who with the lord Apollo and the Rivers have youths in their keeping—to this charge Zeus appointed them—Peitho, and Admete, and Ianthe, and Electra, and Doris, and Prymno, and Urania divine in form, Hippo, Clymene, Rhodea, and Callirrhoe, Zeuxo and Clytie, and Idyia, and Pasithoe, Plexaura, and Galaxaura, and lovely Dione, Melobosis and Thoe and handsome Polydora, Cerceis lovely of form, and soft eyed Pluto, Perseis, Ianeira, Acaste, Xanthe, Petraea the fair, Menestho, and Europa, Metis, and Eurynome, and Telesto saffron-clad, Chryseis and Asia and charming Calypso, Eudora, and Tyche, Amphirho, and Ocyrrhoe, and Styx who is the chiefest of them all. These are the eldest daughters that sprang from Ocean and Tethys; but there are many besides. For there are three thousand neat-ankled daughters of Ocean who are dispersed far and wide, and in every place alike serve the earth and the deep waters, children who are glorious among goddesses. And as many other rivers are there, babbling as they flow, sons of Ocean, whom queenly Tethys bare, but their names it is hard for a mortal man to tell, but people know those by which they severally dwell. Theogony - Hesiod

If the association by different cultures of a planet or star accurately indicates the deities associated with the planet or star are the same, then Yelmalio = Antirius, Kargzant, Sun Daughter, and even the Emperor Daruda. Yelmalio = Antirius pretty much corresponds to the first Sun Dome Temples. Yelmalio = Kargzant reinforces the cult association with horses. Yelmalio = Sun Daughter. Given the various genders assigned to Yelm's Sons in GRoY by way of variation in names this isn't too surprising. It may or may not be significant that the Guide does not equate Lightfore with Elmal... and further supports the view that Dara Happan mythology is a hopelessly distorted representation of the Solar Empire in the God Time. 8-)

Reputed to be somewhere in central Australia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lasseter's_Reef I believe MOB has also located it in the Wastelands east of Sun County. The same bright star marking the boundary of the Upper Sky the Theyalans name Silonia, the Goddess of Dance and the wife of Pole Star? Does Ourania have a Praxian name?

The Book of Drastic Resolutions: Prax, which I know is now mostly non-canonical. There is, however, considerable detail therein about Yelorna. There's considerable divergence in the mythology of the two, but then Solar mythology and genealogy is 'messy'. Having tried to find how Tharkantus/Yelmalio/etc. fit into the Solar pantheon of Dara Happa, and noting the many contradictions in Gloranthan documents quoted in the Guide, GRoy etc. I've come to the conclusion that most in-world material is of doubtful veracity. Even the names of Yelm's eight sons vary. This might reflect just how damaged Solar cultures were when Yelm died, and just how few Solar worshippers survived. If a population falls below a critical number, there simply aren't sufficient people to retain and recall its knowledge, whether mythological or technical. I suspect Dara Happa fell well below this limit, and after Time began those who attempted to reconstruct their culture didn't have much to go by. Surviving artifacts, such as the Godswall are subject to debate; possibly many of the subsequent identification of deities there is suspect... I find it interesting, that the Yelmalio and Yelorna cults, with their close ties, seem to reflect a different tradition, possibly Sairdite in origin, quite distinct from the low landers to the north. It has a parallel in the Bronze Age collapse where in most of those cultures that survived, there's a significant disconnect between before and after.

Yamsur is dead and gone. The deities blended into Yelmalio probably differ by region: I'd expect divergent evolution from the Sairdite cult in Ralios and Fronela, and the long isolation has probably caused drift in Prax. Deep down in the origin of the cult lie Hastatus, God of the Spear (sometimes equated with Avivorus) and Antirius, the Dara Happan God of Order, overlaid by subsequent accretion of Heliacal the Sun, Elmal, Halamalao, and others, including Pelorian/Pentan solar horse gods, Ralian solar horse goddesses etc. Of course these may all be facets of the same deity, filtered by culture and other factors, much as the worship of Orlanth is affected by the proximity of different Holy Mountains.

I don't know if this is still canon, but at one time Yelorna was given the epithet Sun Daughter. Yelorna is, according to older sources, Yelmalio's half-sister, her father being Yelm and her mother Ernalda. As Yelorna has an association with at least two Sun Domes, Ralios and Prax, her association with Yelmalio isn't just a local development (and dates back to the Bright Empire or EWF?) Some of the older material had Yamsur, Yelmalio and Yelorna as siblings, but it's difficult to align them with the Dara Happan 'Sons of Yelm' (and the two sets of 'Sons of Yelm' given in the Guide in Gloranthan documents are... different). Surprisingly, the genealogies of the Storm Gods are fairly clear and apparently universal, but the genealogy of the Solar Gods isn't.

I don't pretend to any depth of knowledge regarding Praxian religion but... The original Sun God of Prax was Splendid Yamsur, Son of the Sun, deceased in the Great Darkness (not to be confused with the hero Yamsur the Splendid, deceased in the Dragonkill hmm...) and there are Solar spirits such as Sun Hawk, one of the three Feathered Rivals. I would not be surprised if, in Prax, there isn't a link between the Praxian Sun Hawk and the Yelmalion Vrimak, but @David Scott would know if this were so.

Well, it must be updated whenever there's a new Count. As it learned by all children, any other changes are going to immediately be detected by anyone old enough to have learned an earlier version. Despite the nature of the Sun County regime, it is unlikely that any rewriting of history is going to be easily accepted (the Temple doesn't seem to include a Ministry of Truth) so any blatant updating is going to cause at the very least disquiet and a questioning of authority. The governance of Sun County is authoritarian and fairly autocratic, but it isn't Stalinist.

Congratulations. Just say no! to more lego: it's habit forming.

There would probably be stairs up to a roof terrace and a wall surrounding the roof.

Corflu isn't much of a settlement (and reliant upon supply from upriver); Feroda was larger, but had supply from upriver or by sea. The Praxian marshes are particularly nasty. I can't see a Teshnan outpost being very much larger than Corflu. It may have been claimed, but probably not controlled. I suspect the Teshnan patch is exaggerated to permit it to show up on the map. Unusual enough to be mentioned, but not denoting anything significant. I recall seeing an exquisite painting of a Mogul court - off to one side, far from the Emperor is a European in Elizabethan court dress - the ambassador from England. Worthy of mention, but not indicating any significant political or economic importance. At the time, Mogul India was rich and powerful; England was a distant and relatively poor European state. The Lopers were from Pamaltela; they conquered Teshnos, briefly, but were not Teshnans; Teshnans aren't blue-skinned Veldang but Vithelans.

So I understand. When is your Sun County update likely to be published, please? It's very much an outline for a very dramatic campaign, but works as background 'history'.

Given that Sun County is basically an authoritarian theocratic state, there's little evidence of serious political rivalry between High Priest and Count. There's no list of High Priests at all - the absence is probably more to do with page count than political machinations?

If you are referring to the map on page 140, I suspect the area on the map is the area he searched and explored, not the area of his colony. Most of the terrain is inhospitable and unsuitable for agriculture. In the Third Age it would not sustain a large population. The lower regions of the Zola Fel are not pleasant. The presence of a few merchants does not denote significant trade or widespread travel - the presence of Marco Polo and a few monks in China did not indicate major trade between China and Europe. There's little to no evidence of cultural exchange between Teshnos and Prax or even the Holy Country during the Closing.

In some of the Gnostic gospels you'll find far worse than that as I'm certain you know... The Light List is written as a Gloranthan document, so its veracity has to be taken as potentially suspect. However, little or nothing in the 'objective' background text in either the Pavis boxed set or your Sun County seems to contradict it. I note, for example, that in the most recent Wyrms Footnotes one article using a Gloranthan document from the Jonstown Compedium declares that the Yelmalio cult was exported from Vanntar, whilst the very next article cites northern Sun Dome Temples active and predating Monrogh.

An amusing conceit, but obviously a slanderous and scandalous account spread by a Darkness worshipper!

Well, no. The Closing pretty much prevented any communication by sea (945?-1580) between the Zola Fel and Teshnos and in his expedition in 1250 Selenteen seems to have travelled across the Wastelands. Given hostile Animal Nomads and the hazards of the Feethos River, significant travel and trade between Teshnos and Prax and points westward seems unlikely, except by sea and until Dormal, there was no sea travel. Any Teshnan outpost in Prax was isolated, and if it only lasted forty or fifty years at most, it seems more likely it would have been influenced by the larger Sun County population to the north than the other way around. Yet little Sun County history seems forgotten, given the list of Counts, many of whom were nomads you'd expect to be written out of history. Much of the history, with its catalogue of bad Counts who seized power, murdered the incumbent, including brothers, etc. is highly embarrassing to a cult with its foundations of truth and honour, but it hasn't been expunged. Debauchery seems improbable; Sun County seems to tend towards the Dara Happan Yelmian gender culture than anything else - and it has its own Ulerian priesthood. The Ulerians of Sun County and Pavis seem to be a distinctly local phenomenon, given that the Ulerian cult is fairly rare in southern central Genertela. I suspect the Uleria cult survived through the Isolation in Sun County. So if they survived, then a tradition of Teshnan dancing 'celestial maidens' would have as well. I must admit to being highly doubtful of anything sourced from Monrogh. He may have founded (or re-founded) the Sun Dome Temple in Dragon Pass, but the temples in Prax and Saird had been active for centuries before he was born, and don't seem to have forgotten which god they worshipped. Perhaps he indulged too much in hazia?

Ah, Selenteen. Thank you. There's no sign of any significant Teshnan contact with Sun County, given that the period is known there as the Solitude of Testing.

I am unable of any reference to a Seleteen or any Teshnan influence in Sun County. I assume that Seleran Empire is a non-canonical name for the empire of Sheng Seleris?

Very interesting. Glancing at the list of Counts, Golungan (1343-1352) seems to be the first nomad count, though it is hard to determine which was the last nomad count - possibly Poskuturri (1537-1556). However, monikers such as Literate or Peasant suggest that nomad rule was not constant.

I'm not an expert, have never been to a RuneQuest Convention, and until a few years ago my Glorantha library was small... So far, worked through Dragon Pass (boardgame), Cults of Prax, Cults of Terror, Cult Compendium, Plunder, Apple Lane, Snake Pipe Hollow, RuneQuest Companion, RuneMasters, Wyrms Footnotes11, 12, 13, 14, Worms Footprints, Borderlands, Pavis, Big Rubble, Griffin Mountain, King of Sartar, Dorastor, Foes. A few more to go through. May have been in a magazine? A Different Worlds?