Ali the Helering

You are a Jedi now, young Bill...

As I said, little point. And no, l am not required to play your language game, the English etymology and broad usage will serve. Actually, no point. Bored now. After 40 years in Glorantha l should have learnt not to feed Uz, but hey...

However, is there such a thing as I?

For anyone trying to create a list of spirits for a cult, Paul is actually a decent resource! Holiness, Christ's, God's, slavery, adoption, sluggish, gentleness, Paul's out-of-body, 'different', elemental, wisdom and revelation, the Power of the air, deceitful, cowardice, power. Elsewhere he attributes a list of powers to 'the one spirit' - wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, 'discernment of spirits', xenolallia and the interpretation of it. Pick a random few and your animist cult can be quite different from the norm! Apologies if this has offended anyone 😕

Yup, he is a seriously respected Biblical scholar. If you want to look at some of the more extreme charismatic churches (e.g. the Toronto 'Blessing') you can see his point...

Sorry for confusion, Shiningbrow! There are several thrusts to his argument 1 traumatic conversion/awakening 2 the spiritual gifts 3 xenolallia 4 his referencing plural types of spirit (healing, knowledge, wisdom etc) that may be accessed. I only said it was interesting, not compelling!

Yeah, I never bought into that one much 🧠

How could you tell?

I think that there is little point in a lack discussion on this level. As to ignorance, I am very much aware that the world contains more variety than I could ever imagine, and I give thanks for that every day. I have spent a lifetime of academia striving to discover what I may, but such an effort will always fall short. To have such amazing knowledge and certainty as yours is far beyond my meager capabilities. Oh, btw, usury is only a crime in some cultures. Elsewhere it is a practice.

John Ashton's 'The religion of Paul the Apostle' makes an interesting case for interpreting Paul as shamanistic.

Just as there is a fine tradition of Dark Troll jokes, there must be a great many quasi-quantum illuminate jokes. Do they count as Riddles?

I am saddened that you have such a narrow view of humanity, Darius. Variety is amazing across the world and across time. Every individual has their own morality, grown out of informational and experiential inputs. Since no individual will have precisely the same inputs, they inevitably have specific outcomes. This is at least as much the case culturally as personally. The reaction to the murder of in-group members has nothing to do with punishment, but much to do with fear and deterrence. Torture is sloppy and of little use for reliable information extraction, but some cultures do view it as acceptable while others don't. Consider, on a simple financial issue, usury. Much of the world regards it as reprehensible, much as acceptable, some as admirable. That is variation, not hypocrisy.

He's not the next Mask of the Emperor, he's a very naughty illuminate!

Nah, that's the other Ralzakark.

I think that he's sleeping off the headache caused by being hit in the cranium by a steamship.

I disagree with much of the larger post, and agree with some, but this cannot go unchallenged! All cultures do not agree on morality, and to suggest that differences are due to hypocrisy is simply wrong. Cultures differ profoundly - some have accepted torture as all part of the process of information gathering - some that murder was acceptable provided it was not concealed - others that vast private wealth in the presence of grinding poverty is okay - others that women do not have the same rights as men. To suggest that they were/are hypocrites simply because they differ from my morality is nonsense. They were/are the normative position in their culture. Disagreement is all part of the process of change.

The 'Garfield minus Garfield' approach is very interesting, indeed. It can be used within a great many different genres as an analytical tool to tell us a great deal about the author, although perhaps little else.

I don't think that having a 'Mythos inspired' cause for callous mass murder in any way reduces the culpability of the perpetrators. In fact, their willingness to sacrifice a vast number for their own perceived benefit may increase their crime. Twin Peaks has a marvellous discussion between Dale and Harry concerning which is worse - the demonic or the purely human evil. I have used it in Ethics classes and Bible studies alike! It is always interesting to watch the conversation develop 😳

Printing the maps is very easy😁

Nope, but I can imagine being so in the same way that I can imagine not being phobic. Each a far off fantasy!

Indeed, but other mystic horrors are available! 👹👻👽👾💀🤡🎅

You could easily produce a rationale for executions and mass starvations to power enormous magical workings.

I completely agree, but if you want to go that route you could have the cult providing a home for the Heortling female psychopath.

I am an arachnophobe. I know that very few British spiders are dangerous, but that doesn't mean that I'm not scared. Knowing that emotion is illusory doesn't mean that it isn't powerful. The illuminate isn't enslaved to their emotions, but they do experience them.

I don't understand why you want illuminates to be unemotional. Not being enslaved to your emotions is a very different thing.