jeffjerwin

Now, of course in the Celestial/Light/Sky pantheon they have their own dance goddess, Silonia, who was the mistress of Polaris/Rigsdal. [B of Heortling Mythology].

And of course nearly every Ernaldan ritual is accompanied by dance. Ernalda of course according to the CC learned this magic from Donandar...

In Pelanda the dance god is Vanolti, 'an aspect of Idovanus', the supreme god of Carmania.

If I were to expand the associated cult list I'd probably bring in some Pelorian or Ralian gods since the cult is found there as well - and the Manirian and Kerofinelan gods may not be so common. Or perhaps I should down-grade some others to spirit magic provisioning.

What we do know based on the puppeteer troop is they also were able to travel in Dragon Pass even after the fall of the EWF and retain mystic secrets. They also seem to have good relations with trolls, but also with other non-humans. They hang out in haunted and dangerous places.

13th Age says : "Minor god who was formerly in the Puppeteer Troupe but left to try to find a way to deal with Chaos. He’s a bardic god and the god of entertainers." It also says "Eurmal"! was a founding member. Both the House of Sartar and the Red Emperor patronize the troop/troupe... (!)

Further reading on the troupe in the 13th Age book indicates they can do teleportation, invisibility, steal powers (thief!) from people, cause laughter, confuse, distract with banter, and deflect damage onto their opponents' friends.

However the Glorantha Sourcebook makes it clear the troop/troupe worships Donandar still.... So perhaps I should develop this further as a hero band.

Specifically, the connection to Orlanth is through Drogarsi (war dancer and poet), a brother/subcult; to Kyger Litor through Molamin (who appears to be an 'elegant' singing subculture), and to Chalana Arroy through Donandar directly distracting chaos things while she healed Dogarsi. 'Skovari' is described as the 'earthy and moving dancer' who is connected to the 'common people' - I read this as perhaps connecting directly to the Earth cults' folk dancing (the goose dance, for example).

 Cults Compendium, pp.231-4.

Drogarsi of course is critical in the creation of Orlanth's Ring.

Deleting Peace... and Invigorate. Considering the others.

Invisibility I'm keeping for now as Donandar is also the god of stage magic/sleight of hand (and turning, I think, puppeteers invisible), according to my reading.

Keep in mind that priests are very rare.

55 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Gods of Glorantha said about Donandar that no spirit magic or sorcery is forbidden but the cult teaches none itself.

 

I don't think it should teach Charisma (which isn't just appearance in RQG) or Group Laughter.  You already have Illusory Sight and Illusory Sound so that can be used to provide an improved appearance or canned laughter for the audience.  I doubt that Invisibility would be known even though it is useful.  Donandar isn't a thief.  The same goes for Invigoriate - Donandar doesn't have earth or Life Rune magics.

Peace is not a Chalana Arroy Rune Magic but an Eirithan one (and only known through the Three Bean Circus) .  Secondly you need to think through the associate cults list.  Chalana Arroy, Heler, Kyger Litor, Maran Gor, Orlanth and Issaries have next to no mythoc relationship with Donandar even though they provide rune spells that might be useful.  If that were the case every war god would have reusable sever spirit.

 

Kyger Litor, Chalana Arroy, and Orlanth all have direct (and positive) connections to Donandar according to the description in CC. Maran Gor uses dancing in her worship, so that was a bit more of a stretch.

9 minutes ago, Skovari said:

I’m always hesitant of giving anyone one but Chalana Arroy sleep

You might want to check your common rune magic list.  Some you list are not.  Just move them down into cult rune spells.  It certainly makes sense they have it.  And no Extension in common?

I've made some corrections... thank you

I suppose Dogarsi should provide Fearless...

I'm trying to throw together Donandar for the new rules.

This is my current draft:

Donandar, God of Music                   Illusion, Harmony, Movement

Holy Days

Waterday, Illusion week, Sea Season

Fireday, Illusion week, Fire Season

Clayday, Illusion week, Earth Season

Freezeday, Illusion week, Dark season

High Holy Day: Windsday, Harmony week, Storm season

[See Cults Compendium, p.232]

Initiate Membership

Requirements Standard

            Cult Skills Act, Charm, Cult Lore (Donandar), Dance, Disguise, Dodge, Insight, Orate, Play Instrument, Sing, Worship (Donandar)

            Favored PassionsLove (any), Loyalty (troupe)

            Spirit Magic n/a

Rune Magic

Common Rune Magic Command Cult Spirit, Extension, Find Enemy, Multispell, Sanctify, Warding

            Special Rune Magic Charisma, Group Laughter, Harmonize, Illusory Motion, Illusory Sight, Illusory Sound, Invisibility, Switch Places [see Cults Compendium]

            Enchantments Binding Enchantment

Rune Priest 

RequirementsThe candidate must have 90% skill in two of the following skills: Act, Dance, Play Instrument, Sing, or Sleight. Must lead a troupe (troop).

Associated/Friendly Cults (spirit magic only, except Eurmal)

            Chalana Arroy provides Heal (spirit magic)

Ernalda provides Heal (spirit magic)

            Eurmal provides Clever Tongue or Become [other shape] at appropriate shrines. Befuddle or Glamour is taught at any shrine.

            Heler provides Shimmer

            Kyger Litor and her son the drumming god provide Demoralize

            Orlanth provides Bladesharp (or Mobility?)

            Issaries provides Detect Enemies (spirit magic)

Yelm provides Coordination

Comments I’ve substituted in a few things like Spirit Magic that are absent in the CC write-up. As a god of music and dance, Donandar has a natural affinity to the performative aspects of shamanism, and the god’s half-brothers are probably best defined as greater spirits, if not Donandar himself.

Jaldon is a dentist, I think.

1 hour ago, M Helsdon said:

In the films and comics perhaps; in the original fiction Conan had a sensible approach to armor...

In the stories themselves, Conan wore armor whenever he could, probably like most penniless adventurers. After becoming more successful - a chieftain and king - he covered himself in it... though no doubt he was a little slower and older by then.

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

I do wonder what the Imarjan take on nandan sons is in Esrolia. As non-mothers, they are barred from deeper mysteries of Ernalda, but they might be eligible for Dark Earth priestesshood. Actually having given birth on the Other Side would remove the barriers to queendom, too, although their fertility would be constantly questioned unless they spent most of their time being pregnant from Other Side intercourse. I have no idea about hermaphrodites in Esrolian society, either - there they might have to form communities of their own to be recognized as female gender.

Note that the Earth mysteries include the secret of parthenogenesis. If you want to bear a child, I'm sure it can be done. Hermaphrodites might even be more sacred in Esrolia, as they encapsulate the primordial Mother that is also Father.

Well, my head canon is that Geo's Bouncer was a Nandan Babeester Gor initiate...

I tend to interpret Geo's as a refuge for non-standard/normative people. Geo was a male cook and hospitality priest, after all.

31 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The inverse conclusion is that someone with male sex joining a cult like Ernalda or Ty Kora Tek is by definition of nandan or at least helering gender.

Which gets us to the weird situation that there would be a lot of female sex initiates of Vinga (or other male occupation cults) whose gender is really helering rather than vingan.

I assume that would be weird to non-Heortlings, not to the Heortlings, based on real world societies that have more than two genders (like, increasingly, our own). Helerings are more likely not interested in warrior/'masculine' skills as their main activity.

Still, something like 85% of Heortlings are M or F, I'd estimate. Which means if you really want to hang with multiple people of your gender or orientation (if its not M of F or heterosexual), you either have to move to the city/big town, or form a hero band, much like in our society.

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Nandan is mentioned as a gender in RQG p.81, Sex and Marriage box.

That settles it... it would awfully lopsided to have Vinga without Nandan.

Question: we have quite a few genders now for Heortlings. But how many genders does the Lunar Way accept? Or is the answer "we don't really care"? I think the Dara Happans probably only have two or three.

2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Only as lay members, and I'm sure they mostly do work in digging graves, maintaining the Necropoli, carrying corpses to the biers, etc.

What about Nandan's folk? I'm pretty sure they become Crones when they get old.

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

We didn't have a Mistress Race Troll, so you win just for that.

 

The Mistress Race was the leader and obviously just being a Mistress Race is Winning.

As one can imagine, people watched them with mixture of fear and curiosity. We were on an endless hero quest against Chaos.

There are the Star-Captain ancestors who one could be a descendant/initiate of, I think, as well as Rigsdal.

Elmalhara "beloved Elmal" (among the Dolutha) may be another aspect of Elmal that is connected to lovers. Hara is a genderless word, interestingly.

6 hours ago, Joerg said:

 

I am not quite sure whether Orlanthi practice cremation on female corpses. If they do, they might follow the practices detailed in Thunder Rebels, but I think that body burials with various embalming techniques are at least common, too, especially in Esrolia. And there is a possibility that Storm Tribe leaders of old received body burials, too. If only for the simple reason that burial mounds make for good locations in scenarios, and having a well-preserved corpse inside animated by intruder activity makes a good adversary.

There are pre-Time barrows and tombs in Sen Senrenen (the hills around Whitewall) and near the Print. This means that the proto-Heortlings practiced burial rather than urn-fields. I believe the burning of the bodies was something introduced with Heort.

25 minutes ago, SDLeary said:

As far as Bluckling Swashe's, if we were to stay with the Chaosium library, that would probably be another one that I would run under HQ, perhaps importing environmental compels from FATE, so that you can "find" that rope to swing over from the deck of one ship to the other as the shots whiz by, fire rages, and powder kegs explode!

SDLeary

Good plan.

On 6/22/2018 at 1:09 PM, soltakss said:

We had trolls, elves and dwarves adventuring together in our RQ2 days. The elf was a Yelornan Unicorn Rider with an obscene Elf Bow skill and Power Arrows that bumped up her shots by one level (Normal to Special, Special to critical and so on) and a huge INT and DEX. The trolls included Derak the Dark troll, Rune Lord Priest of Zroak Zoran, Masher, Rune Lord priest of Zoran Zoran and head of Derak's complaints Department, and Spidertroll, a Priest of Aranea who was overshadwoed by the other two. The dwarf was a Humakti, with a small H, who was attuned to a Godling Bone, so when he died, he wasn;t really dead for a number of days, so he could be brought back without breaking any Humakti taboos, once he "died" and left standing orders that he be carried back and Resurrected, so one of the trolls in the party, Derak the Dark Troll, offered to carry him back, every so often we could hear munching noises that would suddenly stop, it turned out that he was taking "little" bites out of the Mostali as "He's dead anyway and darves are really tasty".

Sure, they challenged each other, distrusted each other and had differing objectives and cultural.cult oppositions, but they found a way to work together.

I was in a party as a Zebra-rider shaman of Rainbow Girl along with a Great and a Mistress Troll and a Magisaur of Lhankor Mhy, but I think you have me beat.

3 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Yes, and the fact that Pendragon has no other form of defense-the parry is assumed in the normal combat roll. And it's not just fantasy. A few years back someone here ( I think) was posting about adapting Pendragon for a Swashbucking RPG, and the sticking point was that, as written, the PCs would die too fast. You would have to add something to soak some of the damage. It's not an insurmountable problem, but it is something that would need to be addressed in some way. 

Yeah, you could take the bits for passions, traits, extended families and character backgrounds and port them over to RQ2 and...oops it's been done. 

Pendragon is a good RPG with simple, solid game mechanics that does an exceptionally good job of what it was designed to do, play knights. It could be adapted to other genres but not without some issues, but that is true of all RPGs. 

 

 

I'm working on something for KAP now.

I've adapted KAP to swashbuckling myself. I had to significantly reduce damage dice. Of course, KAP is somewhat abstracted, and each combat dice contest covers a fair bit of moving about. Proper swashbuckling has to be both fast (simple rules) and yet also cover a lot of mobility and clever tricks. Various attempts at it tend to fall apart when the rules are too percise and thus slower - and also have trouble with complex maneuvering around multiple opponents. I like Lace and Steel myself but the rules have trouble with the latter problem. En Garde was very detailed but had little RPing - and that's the true heart of a Dumas novel.

Characters in KAP are supposed to be knights and sometimes ladies and their opponents ought to be the same - with a few giants, monsters, and enchantresses for good measure. Peasants and Saxons are only interesting when they're clever or formidable. Which means the classic emphasis on the war over Britain in the game, a carryover from the "Historical Arthur" tends to clash significantly with the core themes of "fine amour" and chivalry. There's a conflict between creating competent warriors and "perfect knights" - the latter spending a lot more time writing poetry and pining away. However, this is destined to change...

A ritual year-marriage is the focus of the Garhound adventure in Sun County.

Note that Orlanth wins Ernalda by promises and contests, and even if completely ritualized, this ought to be the pattern. Usually the opposition is perfunctory and symbolic, not real, but there should be always a space for a rival suitor to cause trouble.

The husband impresses the bride and the bride chooses their favorite. This acknowledges both roles.

I find the wiki very useful for keeping close to canon and as an _accurate_ index of sources. If it was truly a work of dozens, the weeding necessary to eliminate non-canon, uncertain canon, and fanon would be much worse.

I second the idea of a Fan-based wiki with art, speculation, and adventure hooks as opposed to dry indexing. They serve different roles, and Metcalf's is really important if you want to write or research something, err... arcane, like my focus on Darkness Age proto-Heortlings.

She could also be a widow (or other survivor) who became connected to death via some tragedy, and had to learn the rites of death for Earth-folk in the absence of other candidates. Perhaps she chose that path instead of Babeester Gor or dyeing her hair with henna. There is always a need for Ty Kora Tek as every time Ernalda enters the underworld someone has to tell the secret of death to the people, and 'crone' need not be a strictly age-based judgment. But this association does mean, as Metcalph states above, barrenness.

The Widow's Tale and Eurhol's Vale are excellent and totally unavailable. I think they would be new to a lot of new and returning Glorantha-fans.