jeffjerwin

I second Hazia activities. This is an excellent hook.

The left-handed/reversed Air rune appears in Dragon Pass/WBRB.

Maybe that's significant?

After all, it's where the spirits for Argrath's warlock societies go...

Wait: I may have them inverted. Certainly the Air Rune, however, appears inverted on some counters versus the map.

I think the left handedness of the other direction is probably significant, however.

Well, they are delicious anyway.

51 minutes ago, Joerg said:

 

So who decided whether a plot may be built over? Modern Nochet has only one area inside the walls where there is open ground, and that is after Hendira and her Lunar allies razed a lot of the previous (presumably anything but well-to-do) quarter there.

I wonder whether Hendira had precedents for uprooting a significant part of the population of the city by force and/or decree. Perhaps there was a recompensation program, with diminishing recompensation the longer the inhabitants held out.

And I do wonder how the new landlords got rid of the buildings occupying their prospective temple grounds. Systematic "unbuilding", demonstration of Lunar siege engines, or how?

 

It's next to the Fish market and seems to be among the most ancient parts of the city, curiously enough. Probably a Water-cult affiliated slum, I think... 

Edit: the Maps in Esrolia, the GS book, are schematic, but suggest there was building there continuously from the period following the Green Age. The choice of site was perhaps based on some innate power in the landscape there but perhaps the original village was not under the protection of a House, being in a sense, older than the Houses, with its own peculiar fishy customs... (I'm not an expert on Esrolia, so maybe I'm way off the mark).

Babeester and her sister Voria? They are opposites/a pair and both born from the Dead Earth/Ernalda, without an (acknowledged) father.

Edit: I think Voria has a much more important ritual role for the Earth cult than she appears to among the Heortlings, where she's the virgin goddess of spring. She is also resurrection, rebirth, dawn (Theya is born at the same moment as she) and hope. Paired with fury, sacrifice, and madness I think you have the mystery cult of the rejuvenating world.

There's quite a few associations between the House of Sartar and Nochet - Arkilia, for one. And several members of the House were murdered there, obviously having taken refuge among the multitudes... There may even be descendants of Marlesta somewhere, among the Nochet demimonde.

You may wish to consider if any betrayed the Sartar princelings described in the "Crimes of Assassination" there.

It wouldn't surprise me if Sartar spent time there before venturing north into Quiviniland (he was kind of a cosmopolite and a wanderer). Maybe he has relations there (though his clan seems to be from near the Stone Woods).

So I suspect this goes back to the beginning of the kingdom.

32 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Sure, but you didn't have a China, an India and an entire Steppes empire in the same space as well.

Going by this map again, Kralorela is about California's size?

California is plenty big... I think it's important to realize that before the size of our Earth was known - i.e., the later Iron Age, most geographers believed the world to be a to smaller than it is. Glorantha reflects ideas about the universe similar to those of Cosmas Indicopleustes (though he should have known better, and was an outler in his time, I think he based his notions on pre-scientific tradition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmas_Indicopleustes). Cosmas saw the world as a cube. The inhabitable part of the world in his map consisted of Europe, Africa north of the Gulf of Guinea, and Asia as far east as India. Thus his world map is rather approximately on the same scale as Glorantha as a whole, and his notions - shared with more orthodox geographers like Ptolemy - of the size of Europe shows a continent the same size as North America, or even smaller.

3 hours ago, Mark Mohrfield said:

 This may have been true for the Dawn Age, but i think that it is more likely that modern Orlanthi identify the sun as whatever deity plays that role in the particular myth rather than always identifying it with one particular god. Mythology is often contradictory.

Yes, that's true... extrapolating from King of Dragon Pass, a bit, where in the 14th century we find a correlation of the Bad Emperor with the Sun, though Elmal remains the Sun God. 

Harono I think has been noted above. He's the Sun God in Esrolia, who was displaced by Kodig/Orlanth; it is Ernalda that returned him to the sky at the end of the Great Darkness. I believe that this name is related to Halamalao, Yelmalio among the Elves. R is interchangeable many languages with L, hence the Esrolian Yelmalio might have been *Haranaleo.

My reconstruction of the proto-Esrolian (pre-Vingkotling) myth of the return of the Sun: *Haranaleo probably was birthed by Ernalda from her dead husband's seed to bring light back (Hell, as the trolls know, is also a womb). He became the lover of Esrolia, her daughter (nothing like incest between the gods, after all). Despite his parentage, Vingkot-Orlanth (*Wingak) or his mortal representative accepted him as his son and thane, because this was part of the marriage bargain (if the wife is pregnant at the marriage). This may well be what Aldryami still believe. After all, sun, earth, water, and wind are all necessary for plants to be birthed and prosper. [Heler no doubt also was present in Ernalda's bed at some proper point]

I know this doesn't work at all chronologically - but it kinda does if one acknowledges the Vingkotlings and Kodigvari as ultimately a symbolic construct for "common ancestral rulers"; I strongly suspect that Theyalan and Earth Tribe myths have been reconciled and were once further apart.

Edit: I should add, Argan Argar is 'cool shade'. Properly "husband-protector" therefore means "the powers that permit the seed to germinate, grow, and produce more seed" - the fertility of the Earth. Every region makes into a husband god the most important local factors to that end. In rice regions, the pooling water god and the sun god are chiefly important. Forest regions may promote the wind-god, as he spreads seeds and pollen. In volcanic regions, the fiery mountain makes rich soil directly. 

Recall also that the Bad Emperor is associated with the sky and fire, but is not identified as the Sun by traditionalist Orlanthi. Ernalda was a slave-wife to the Bad Emperor, so even though he wasn't a protector, he was a "husband". Elmal, however, served as husband-protector while Orlanth was exiled and possibly during the Lightbringers' Quest (when he was "dead") though in Esrolia I believe they identify Ernalda as Ginna Jar and the secret leader of the quest. Of course a part of Ernalda was warmed by hearth-Elmal while another part lay in the hall of the dead gods, given that she has many aspects.

Or at least I see it that way.

I'm pretty sure that the only think more appealing than eating an elf for a proper Zorak Zoranite is burning their kin alive by in-rushing elf-zombies on fire through the forest. But any other troll devotee would be rather appalled at the waste (and the fire).

I have a contract to write something else game related this summer - this was a standby and the project I'm on was a surprise. I will pick this up again when the other project is finished.

It's slightly off topic, but in South Asian myth, Ila/Ilā, ancestor of the Lunar dynasty, who was the consort of Budha, son of Chandra (the male Moon) was an androgyne, able to father and bear children. In Indo-European myth the sex of the moon god is one of the more noticeably divergent features. Of course, the Sun, where the Moon is male, is often female (as in ancient German myth).

However, I suspect that the Gods Wall genders gods according to function within Dara Happan society rather than according to physical sex (or lack/ambiguity thereof).

On 4/11/2018 at 12:01 PM, m0n0cular said:

Thanks Martin - I've realised that becomes clear once I cross reference the map on p58 Coming Storm with p47 Wyrms Footnotes. I wonder which clan is to the north of Aroka Lake?

Whatever it is, it is possibly a Helering clan. The closest settlement is Herongreen. I suggest this also suggests a watery clan.

On 4/11/2018 at 8:50 AM, Richard S. said:

Belintar and the Red Emperor are a few famous examples. I wouldn't say Delecti counts as he's not really a demigod, just a really powerful sorcerer. And the zombies don't really worship Delecti either, as they're just reanimated corpses.

He does have sentient undead, however, the Dancers in Darkness, who apparently do worship him. He clearly has adopted the guise on Nontraya and may even be said to be sitting on top of Ernalda and Orlanth's steads (see my research in other threads); an undead avatar of Ernalda is even resident in the swamp on one of the islets as a consort. I think he hero-quested to be Nontraya after his seizure of Ernalda's "not-dead" corpse.

On 4/12/2018 at 12:24 AM, Grievous said:

The use of the Moon Rune, I venture to guess, or at least the nature of cycles. How does the Red Goddess manage to exist within Time? Through cycles and her essential cyclical nature (which is perhaps tied to her command of the Moon Rune). I kind of think embracing cycles is a sort of hack on Time itself - because they allow you to both exist and not-exist at the same time. Both Belintar and the Moonson do something similar.

Though the comment that the Moonson is the Goddess' penis makes me wonder (I think it was mentioned in the other thread). I'd love to hear some elaboration on that, if anyone has anything to add. 

Well, she does presumably have seven parts. This reminds me of Osiris, who, of course, lost his penis when it was eaten by a crab before Isis could put him back together.

Because the Red Goddess is probably made out of seven different parts of seven different Lunar gods, only one has to be male for her to have both genders. The only male one I can think of is Rashoran[a], but perhaps I'm overlooking something.

On 11 April 2018 at 11:36 AM, Ali the Helering said:

You thought my title was accidental, maybe?????

I am half Welsh, and used to a great many sheep jokes.

Yes, me too. Thankfully in the States most people don't know them. It's always the English that trot them out... 

8 hours ago, Ali the Helering said:

Given Eurmal's nature, I would rather assume a myth where Orlanth thinks that he is home, and has a confused night with his presumed  wife.

Well, Orlanth and Heler/Talhara have a thing on the side as well. Such Tomfoolery!

On 9/24/2016 at 3:29 AM, jajagappa said:

To our knowledge, Eurmal.  But I'm sure there's some Trickster myth that claims he was.

Trickster is the Seducer, but he is not a husband, or if he is, it is a trick he played on himself. Ernalda is a goddess of sex (not the goddess, but definitely Ernalda the Lover is one of her aspects), so I don't doubt she has a very long list of friends and admirers. If Orlanth was jealous he would be a massive hypocrite also, which is not one of his many faults. Marriage is supposed to compel sexual faithfulness, but Orlanth isn't always her husband in the god-time - whenever he's in exile, presumed dead, dead, or young bachelor Orlanth, he's not her husband. Or when she's dead, which is a part of every year.

19 minutes ago, scott-martin said:

"Brass" as "upland bronze" in this context is an insight to conjure with. Storm metal where the word for "storm" is "lowfire."

Who is Lodril's wife in the Holy Country?

Esrola, at least until she yielded to Argan Argar.

28 minutes ago, Ian Cooper said:

 

BTW Without Iron bindings (bronze would not work) then a barrel would be bound with wooden withies from top to bottom. The barrels depicted in that Swenstown scene are bound with iron - making them tremendously expensive examples of dwarf work. They must contain some sort of alchemical substance purchased from the dwarf, to make such expense wortwhile

 

 

Preservative or Fermentive magics? Though the latter is well known. The dwarf barrels = stasis = makes a bunch of sense to me.

If RQ does go the Miskatonic Repository route I could really see a "DuckQuest" project working out. Sorta like the Sartar book and Red Cow campaign, but with "Duck Valley: Quackdom of Hweroes" and the campaign being called The Red Fowl. Maybe it could cwonicle the saga of Arqwat, liberator of Delecti's Marsh and High Drake of Drake-on Pass.

Oh yes. Which parallels the huge windmill shown on the DP map. However, it's highly dubious if Storm Age Orlanthi would have built anything like the above...

On 4/3/2018 at 3:13 AM, metcalph said:

 

Don't know of any Windmills apart from the William Church illustration.

 

Old Wind? On the Dragon Pass map? Not canon then...? Huh, I always rather enjoyed Church's art.

1 hour ago, JonL said:

I expect that the hypothetical story where Gustbran  discovers the deep mystery that introducing just the right impurities counter-intuitively makes cast bronze stronger would frame the "what" and "why" process in much that way,. A Brithini smith surely has very detailed knowledge on the runic correspondences and compositions of various minerals. The "how" still involves adding controlled amounts of whatever mineral extract at the right stage of the process, even though the "why" in Glorantha has nothing to do with valence electrons.

Gustbran is a son of Veskarthen, so we can imagine how the myth goes, with a lot of innuendo.

Cranes were invented in Greece in the late 6th c. BCE.

Edit: Glorantha no doubt has many magical and impossible in our physics solutions for lifting heavy or unwieldy objects. It's the sort of practical magical knowledge that every stevedore and carpenter needs. I suspect in Esrolia the Vogarth the Strongman cult is important partly because of building and moving goods.