Ian_W

As far as I can tell, in the time of the EWF the Dragonewts did whatever they did as the humans draconised their own gods themselves.

Armor protects you. Ward against Weapons makes their weapon a not-weapon. Semantics. It's only unimportant if you lack a Law rune.

I think I've got it. The old Exilestead, where Harmast initiated, is on the Sounder's River, up from where it turns into the Good Canal. It got burned by Praxians years ago. The new Barbarian Town, build by Derek Poljoni, is a bit further south, between the two rivers, but on a hilltop that has water accessible by wells.

The photos are essentially Australia west of the ranges. It is country I am middlingly familiar with 😉 Exile Stead wasn't Praxian, when it was founded back on the past by the Orlanthi that Harmast ended up being initiated by, which is pretty much why it got burned down by Praxians. I'd argue Barbarian Town also wasn't Praxian when it was founded by Derek Poljoni, who was a worshipper of Orlanth (and almost certainly a Wind Lord, and by now a Thunder Brother) ... but when the Pol Joni became a Praxian tribe, they kept their town. Yeah, Orlanth is the main god in the Lightbringer temple, and Issaries is absolutely known and respected but Eiritha is the women's goddess around here. In Barbarian Town, Ernalda is fundamentally a weaving goddess. Waha's temple is in Baboon Town. Time to start working on a map, major NPCs and a rumours table, I think. Stashing these here https://www.academia.edu/32438737/Water_Systems_in_Bronze_and_Iron_Age_Israel_Encyclopedia_of_the_History_of_Science_Technology_and_Medicine_in_Non_Western_Cultures_ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0305440310002207

Thank you for picking up the error on Jaldon/Derek - typing Jaldon for Derek was my brain and fingers not talking well enough. Jaldon is the *threat*, and Derek was trying to build something that can last. This also means not building too big. This links with my thoughts about Baboons - when they can enter with an Oook, and the second cousin of a Khan has to beg entry, then you're making pointed social comments about insiders and outsiders. For Baboons, this experience of urban life is getting them ready for the Return to Glory. A bucket at a time artesian water can support some livestock, but when you can only effectively control further than a bowshot from the town walls, keeping other people from grazing on your agriculture is a very tough thing. The Pol Joni are, fundamentally, a migratory Praxian herding tribe, rather than the traditional Orlanthi mix of herding and farming on your tribal lands. The Orlanthi up the slope are a lot more conventional, but again, an unguarded field is a pasture. If a small group of Praxians are near town, it's hard to tell if they are there to raid or trade, until they actually do. So the aussumption is going to be 'Could be either, mebbe'. "It's a hard land for hard people. If you want to be soft, go back to Sartar." I'm setting the game in 1580ish, because I really, really dislike the Hero Wars as a gaming setting. I think there will be well-watered gardens inside Town, but these will be small. I think the Ernalda shrine at Orlanth's temple will have a hand-raised barley field inside the walls. Note that a lack of agriculture cripples Ernalda's cult *economy* - if you get 20% of the harvest, and there is no harvest, then your Rune Priestess needs to work for a living. Storm Bull's cult economy is also ... different ... around here, because proximity to The Block there's so many damn Storm Bulls on call. If you are the only one for three farms who is an Initiate of The Bull, then you are Storm Bull for all the associated rites on various holy days, so you regularly get a present of a free feed, a new shirt and the occasional axe. But if they are as common as dirt, then you don't automatically get tapped on the shoulder to be the paid escort for the Issaries pedlar. Generally the diet is 'Around here, meat is free, but you pay for water by the glass and bread by the slice'. This is not the major town of the Pol Joni - thats further north. This is the end of the line.

7 Barbarian Town's walls aren't especially impressive - a mixture of local drystone and wood, carted across the hills from the forest about 15km north. The walls are about the height of a man, about as thick as they are wide and faced with a ditch about two meters deep and 3 meters across. Each of the four gates has a bridge, which does not retract but can be pulled up. 7a Derek wasn't owed favours by dwarfs or giants or whatnot, so Barbarian Town is a good old built-by-pick and hand-cart bronze age hillfort. {ty Joerg for picking up the important difference between Mr Goildentooth and Mr Poljoni, and that I shouldnt accidentally confuse them them] 7b The watch towers are six meters high, plus an observation platform ten meters above that. 8 The town is separated into four quarters, with a town square that has the bronze statue of Derek Pol Joni and the Lightbringers temple in the middle. Three of the quarters are controlled by Pol Joni and one, by ancient treaty, by Baboons. The Storm Bull temple, which has a Waha shrine, is in Baboon Town. Each quarter has it's own well, and each quarter is responsible for its own cisterns. The Four Elders must agree on the appointment of the Sheriff, and on any amendment to the Posted Town Rules. The Sheriff appoints Deputies, which are generally off a list provided by each of the Quarter Elders. 8a Derek knew the Baboons had two things he needed - the political status of an Independent tribe in Prax, and knowledge of and access to the local Praxian spirits. A deal was therefore done, that included a quarter within the new town, as and when it was built. {ty Joerg for picking up the important difference between Mr Goildentooth and Mr Poljoni, and that I shouldnt accidentally confuse them them] 8b While generally Prax nomads need to be oath bound to come into Barbarian Town, Baboons just rock up to the gate, go 'Ook' and get let in. They can come and go as they wish. Stuff they carry can get inspected, and be subject to the Posted Town Rules. 8c Baboon shamans have first call on travellers asking for magical training.

When you're trying to keep cattle alive, intermittent streams don't mean much. Reno is next to the Truckee. Carson City is next to the Carson River. Cow towns go next to water. Barbarian Town appears to not follow this rule.

The actual Wild West was a lot more regulated, especially about being armed in town, than the mythical Wild West. We remember the Shootout at the OK Corral because it was so rare - the great and the good of the cow towns wanted the cowboys to be able to get drunk, laid and lose their money gambling without being worried about being stabbed or shot in the back. Hmmm.. To Provide against Carrying of Deadly Weapons Section 1. It is hereby declared unlawful to carry in the hand or upon the person or otherwise any deadly weapon within the limits of said city of Tombstone, without first obtaining a permit in writing. Section 2: This prohibition does not extend to persons immediately leaving or entering the city, who, with good faith, and within reasonable time are proceeding to deposit, or take from the place of deposit such deadly weapon. Section 3: All fire-arms of every description, and bowie knives and dirks, are included within the prohibition of this ordinance. — Tombstone City Ordinance Number 9 Effective April 19, 1881, [48] However, something like that probably should go in Casino Town rather than Barbarian Town. However, Barbarian Town/Exile Stead is a cow town without water. Its not on either river. It should be either north or south of where it is. And it's survived for a good long time, so there has to be a reason for that. Where it is doesn't make sense for horse and cattle people - unless Derek Poljoni put the town as a hillfort on top of underground water, knowing he could dig wells and cisterns, and therefore put his new town somewhere that was bad for him, but worse for the Praxians. This means that Our Heroes will need to be very aware of water. It's an interesting question as to whether the hillbilly Orlanthi - who, by the way, have no King - regard the Pol Joni as kin or as Praxians. I'm thinking they regard them as Praxians ... which means bushwhacking will be attempted if the Cattle Bastards try and graze on our high valleys.

Which is why Im trying to set out a coherent set of thoughts on why Barbarian Town/Exilestead is where it is, and why it still exists as a settlement of 1000 or so people ...

As it looks like Sarah Newton's manuscript on Barbarian Town is indefinitely delayed, and I think it's where I want to set a campaign, so here's some thoughts. Your Glorantha Will Vary. 1. It's been a town before, but goes through a cycle of establishment, growth, being burned down by cranky Beast Nomads, then being re-established. Before the Hero Wars, it's a Pol Joni town, and the Pol Joni are Lightbringers who learned to ride horses properly. 1a The traditional Orlanthi chariots are terrible at fighting cavalry - if you try and use them to do that, then you'll get your bits kicked in by actual cavalry, and be forced to concede any and all grazing lands they want (see also Grazelanders). Eventually, an Orlanthi hero embraced change and put horse riding front and center, and that was Derek Poljoni. 1b. Orlanth's horses Crisis and Rage, driven by his charioteer Mastakos are definite part of the Arming of Orlanth, which is one of the critical myths. If it's a choice between getting roflstomped by actual cavalry and seemingly abandoning a key part of Orlanth's myths, culturally conservative Orlanthi will double down on Being More Like Orlanth. And the not-culturally conservative Orlanthi got eaten by Dragons at the end of the EWF. 1c. Elmal Horsefriend is probably involved. He is/was the horse god of the southern Orlanthi, but his myths seem to have the Loyal Thane mostly fighting on foot. The accepted method seems to be weaponthanes appeared to be to use horses to get somewhere, but fight on foot. Note that weaponthanes on fast horses are the ones that don't need to be ransomed when a cattle raid fails. Later, you got the whole Monrogh debate, with Elmal the Loyal Thane trying to prove he wasn't Elmal Orlanththrall, and the kinstrife among the Elmali. Note the Prax Yelmalio cult wasn't able to keep hold of their horse culture in the face of Praxian opposition, and the Pol Joni were. The Yelmalio temple is also way over the other side of Prax. 1d. Storm Bull is absolutely involved, as the major shared god between the Lightbringer and Waha mythos. Among Praxians, Orlanth is just another spirit cult, but a Storm Bull initiate shares a religion with Praxian Storm Bulls. Weirdly, Storm Bulls will be one of the major trade enablers - trade between Praxians and outsiders may be done as ritual gift exchanges between the Lightbringer Storm Bull, and his Issaries offsider, and the Praxian Storm Bull, and his shaman offsider, and then the gifts shared. 2. It's a trade town that isn't on a trade route. 2a. The two potential trade routes between rich, civilised Esrolia/Holy Country and the rich, civilised Dara Happa/Lunar Empire are the direct land route through what is now Sartar, and the river route via the Zola Fel and Corflu. No one sane would run a trade route along the edge of the Storm Walk mountains, which are full of up and down and has no even potential port at the other end as well as being next to the Beast Riders. 2b Note that securing the entire Zola Fel is going to require Doing Something about the Beast Riders, ideally by a chain of forts down the river, and also grabbing a port in Esrolia. Note the implied conflict of interests this implies between any Governor or Prince of Sartar and any Governor or Prince of Pavis. If the water trade route between Esrolia and the Heartlands works, then at the end of the day, Sartar can be left to the Sartarites. And if it doesn't, then whoever rules Sartar is very well positioned to get a cut of all the trade. 2c Fundamentally it's not a trade route. It's a trade source. Prax nomads want metal weapons and armor, and have animals and spirit magic matrixes and other magic to trade for them. All these goods are highly portable, and therefore a lot of value per pack animal. Pol Joni want civilised luxuries, and as well as similar things to trade as the Prax nomads have, they can also offer the right to trade from inside the walls that keep you safe from the Prax nomads you trade with. 2d The population of ~1000 probably includes transients, so you've got 400 more-or-less permanent residents, 400 kith-and-kin and 200 short termers. 3. It's not on an obvious water source. So we have a walled trading town for horse-and-cattle people that is short of water. 3a. This makes it much harder to besiege by Animal Nomads, as they don't have water for their beasts either. 3b One of the things Derek Poljoni probably did was arrange the digging of a whole lot of water storage inside the walls. How full these are determines how many horses and cattle can be kept alive for how long inside the walls, which determines how well Barbarian Town can survive a siege from Beast Riders. 3c Herders keep their herds outside the walls, closer to the water. You come into town with just the stock you're planning on selling. 3d Water is generally for sale, but prices are limited by the fact that there is water in rivers around 10 miles away. Note that being captured and sold for ransom or slavery at Pimper's Block not far to the north is the major risk in this. 3e Wells inside the walls are probably more convenient. These are probably limited in how many buckets per day, with water being moved into the cisterns. 4. There are some references to Harmast Barefoot initiating to Orlanth at Exile Town in the time of Lokymayadon, but that's before Arkat, the God Learners and the Empire of the Wyrms Friends, meaning myths are both true and unreliable. 5. As well as being short of water, it's short of fuel. While you can cook on dried beast dung, I don't think you could get a fire hot enough to do metalwork on animal dung. 5a. Because metalwork, and specifically repairing metal Praxian weapons, wood and charcoal will always have a market in Barbarian Town. 6. You can't farm outside the walls, because it is too close to Prax and the Beast Nomads. If you try and farm, then some Bison Riders, or whatever, and going to graze your crops down to stubble. Note this completely breaks the traditional Orlanthi economy, based around tribal land ownership creating a noble class and the Ernalda temple taking 20% of your grain harvest, splitting this with her Husband-Protector. 6a Sun and wind dried meat - Boucan, Buckan or Buck - will be the major part of the diet. Bread is an imported luxury. Flour is easier to import than grain as it has more calories per kilo. 6b Ernalda is mostly a weaving goddess, not a grain goddess. Eiritha, which is what Uralda would be called around there, is probably a more important goddess. 6c Stickpickers don't own a mount. 'Enlo' might be a nickname from them, because the weapons of both poor Orlanthi and of trollkin is the sling and the spear. 6d Carl and Cottar aren't relevant terms. More important is if you've got a hearth inside the walls or a ration of water inside the walls. 6e These rights will be linked to the ruling clans of the Pol Joni, who run the town. Probably a number of Quarters. 6f If you cant afford to eat or drink, then you'll need to pick between the two Blocks. One is north-east, the other north west.

Go ahead. *Make* the Storm Khan eat what is in front of him. I'm going to be over here, where it's safe.

Something kicking around my mind is a Praxian Storm Khan who is quite upset at a Sartarite clan chief not inviting to the feast the very Storm Bull initiate he has travelled to Sartar to thank. The Storm Khan accepts hospitality at the Clan hall, and therefore attends the feast that is thrown for him, but -disregarding what the host and other guests do - while at that feast eats only bread and salt, and drinks only bread and water. By accepting less hospitality than is offered, he returns, as he sees it, insult with insult.

This is a story from the Darkness. It is not quite a Vingan story, but it is a story a red-haired daughter will tell you. Orlanth's Hall was not a happy place during the Great Darkness. Orlanth and many of his retainers had left, to try and rescue the universe with the Lightbringer's Quest, and as saving the universe was very important, they had taken with them most of the weapons, the armor and the things of war in general. Elmal and Vinga were doing their best, but what could be done with cottars and with stickpickers, who had just hunting weapons and perhaps a few scraps of sheepskins to do for armor as jerkins ? Polaris' wife, Silonia, who Vinga had rescued from the Sky Palace, was quite concerned with how things were going, seeing as there were almost no armed men left, and everyone left in Orlanth's Hall was either too old, too young, too female, or several of these. And to make it worse, Ernalda, Orlanth's wife, was asleep and was absolutely not telling anyone what they had to do. Silonia asked her husband, Polaris, who was busy trying to get the cottars and the stickpickers to stand in the dark outside Orlanth's Hall in straight lines and use their pointed sticks all together, and he said that they were all doing their best with what they had, and that she should get back to the womens quarters and to 'try to preserve her honour' if worst came to the worst. And once she bowed to her husband as good Sky Tribe women did, and then backed away out of sight, then Silonia gritted her teeth and remembered something now-asleep Ernalda had said. 'There is always another way'. She also remembered something that had been done just once in the Sky Palace, when there had been a great panic over Too Many Painted Horsemen, and she realised to do her wifely duty and preserve her honour she needed to stop being herself for long enough to do what her Husband didn't know he needed. She needed to pretend to be the Wife of Yelm, and do more or less what Wife of Yelm did in the Panic Over Too Many Painted Horsemen. Except it needed to be done here, in the Storm Tribe where they do things differently. So the first thing she did was got together a dozen or so cottars, who were too old or too young to be failing to stand in straight lines and use their pointed sticks together, and she got them to go pick all the half-grown oilseed plants that had stopped growing because the Sun had gone out, and because Flamal was crying over the apparent death of his mother. The second thing she did was find Storm Bull, who was putting the last of the ale in a bag as he was getting ready to go somewhere far away to do something important, and she said to him 'Storm Bull, of the very muscled shoulders and the very strong arms, my Husband Polaris needs you to dig a defensive pit, about ten steps long and three wide, and as deep as a man's waist on the south side of Orlanth's Hall, and then it needs to be filled with water'. And then she tiptoed up to him, raised herself on her very toes, as she could as she was a dancer trained in the Sky Palace and said to him 'And before you do that I need you to take your shirt off and give it to to hold me while you do it so I can watch you properly while you do it', and then she whispered something else, and Storm Bull blushed and took his shirt off and ran off in an odd manner to dig the pit as instructed. She then went off to find one of Gustbran's apprentices, who wasn't doing very much at all, as all the fuel for the fires was being used to keep people something close to warm, and all the ingots of metal had been used up anyway. She looked him in the eye and told him to make a life sized clay mould of Storm Bulls' chest and shoulders, as based on this shirt right here. And then she said if he didnt do it by three hours hence, then she'd find a switch and hit him with it between the legs so hard he wished he was back in Alkoth, as that is something she'd heard Yelm's wife say to a gold smith once, back in the Old Country, so she repeated it here, hoping it would work. Almost everyone in Orlanth's Hall knew Silonia, and they knew she was a quiet and demure woman of the Sky Tribe, who kept to herself in the Womens Quarters, and never argued with anyone in public and always deferred to everyone who was more important than she was, so the threat shocked Gustbran's third best apprentice so much he needed to find a new pair of pants as soon as she was out of sight. Her next task made her heart run cold, but she said to herself the words she knew that she would never, ever say. She said to herself 'I need to find Eurmal'. Now, she knew Eurmal was supposed to be with Orlanth going off to rescue Yelm from Hell, but she also knew Eurmal was an unreliable wretch who always skived off what needed to be done, so sure enough she found him not with Orlanth going to try and save the universe, but behind two doors in the Womens Quarters that he had thought no one else had the keys for. She smiled sweetly at Eurmal and said 'Great and cunning Eurmal, who knows all the secret paths and the secret ways in the forest, I have an offer for you'. And Eurmal leered at her, and said 'Keep talking. I might have an offer for you, after'. And after that, Silonia remembered to forget who she was, and she swallowed her rage and said 'If you go to High King Elf's forest, and get me six armfuls of the branches of pine trees that are most heavy with sap, then I shall dance for you. And if you bring back twelve, I shall dance for you as if you are my Husband, and I will show you what is underneath my dress'. Then Eurmal the Trickster nearly swallowed his tongue, and then he jumped up, made a very good approximation of a courtly bow of the Sky tribe, and ran off to the Elf King's Forest to look for pine trees. Silonia then was very glad she was no longer alone in the same room as Eurmal, and she went out to the southern side of Orlanth's Hall, and saw that Storm Bull, still without a shirt, and still with very strong arms and very impressive shoulder muscles, had nearly finished filling the pit with water. This was good, as the dozen stickpickers and cottars had begun piling up the early harvested oilseed plants in any place they felt like, so she snarled at them 'You worthless little sons and grandsons of people from Raibanth and worse places, stop dropping those where they lay as if you're stupid sheep followers, and put them direct into the Oslir, I mean right into that pit right there, before I make your wife a Countess of Spolit !', and to emphasise she picked up a single strand of flax between her two littlest fingers and dropped it into the pit right next to Storm Bull, who remained very still and exactly where he was, waist deep in water. Storm Bull she smiled brightly at and said 'Do not you have something to do', and then she turned around before she saw something she shouldnt. She then headed into the kitchens, and she growled at the Lowfires, whispered something about Valind, who she called by another name, and the Lowfires, who had been so starved of fuel that they had begun eating the floorboards when they thought they wouldnt be seen, burned brightly and that great cauldron of water with a couple of onions and a handful of barley that was called 'soup' began to bubble. Which was a good thing, as a very bright, cheerful and enthusiastic Eurmal was back with his first armload of what used to be High King Elf's best green pine branches, and so Silonia, who by now was being called Everywoman behind her back when they thought she could hear, and Queen Sun Bitch when they thought she couldn't, growled at two of the kitchenhands 'If you want flesh on your thighs and buttocks, make me Green Branch Soup in that cauldron, boil it down to one fifth and then strain it and boil it down again to one fifth of that'. But to Eurmal she smiled, and he ran off again in a funny manner to raid High King Elf's forest again. She then went back to the pit that wasn't full of Storm Bull, and so to what we aren't going to call the Storm Bull Pit, but it was full of half ripe oilseed stems and branches and whatnot, and she snarled at this messy, muddy, wood and mud part of the world that her Duty to her Husband had put her in, and she grabbed a handful of stems and branches and she looked at one of the cottars and said 'If you want to live, watch this and do this', and then with her delicate courtly Sky Palace fingernails she stripped the fibers out of the oilseed plants that had been retted in the water and put them into a bucket. 'This shall be flax,and it shall make linothorax, and we shall live'. Her next stop was Ernalda's loom. This was going to be the hard part, because what was going to be woven wasn't any wool that came off Orlanth's sheep. But it needed to happen, as she was Preserving Her Honour. She glared at Ernalda's handmaidens, who she had dragged by their ears from crying outside Ernalda's chambers to the Loom Room, and she said 'Watch this, as it is Important', and she then remembered hard what she had seen Dendara do, and she moved the spiked carding plates together with the retted linen fibers between them, and she turned the wet flax fibers into something that could be spun. Imperiously, she turned to Ernalda's handmaidens and she declaimed 'As you saw me do this, do likewise, but keeping it always damp with water. And then spin it and weave it, as I have seen you spin and weave, but always recalling to keep it damp with water, and your Mistress will thank you for it as she wakes'. Then, for the first time in Ernalda's spinning room, there was thread spun and woven of things that were not wool from things that drew breath. And after that the Storm Tribe had learned to spin flax, and the Storm Tribe had learned to weave flax, in the same manner and with the same declamations and glares. It is not my place to tell you if any of those present wondered if they could spin and then weave clouds, or alynx fur, or any other thing. The kitchens was the next step, and a large pile of green pine branches had been reduced into soup and then reduced further into pine sap glue. Eurmal was also grinning. She smiled at Eurmal, and told him "Follow me, and bring that cauldron with you", and then proceeded to that room where Gustbran's third best apprentice had finished making a clay mould of Storm Bull's chest and shoulders, and then that apprentice and that mould, and that Eurmal then followed to a room that was near enough to Ernalda's Loom Room to be useful, but not quite near enough that the smell from the hot glue and from Eurmal would get back to Ernalda's Loom Room. Silonia then placed the first layer of those flax threads that had been retted and then stripped and then carded and then spun and then woven over the clay model of Storm Bull's chest, and then she looked at the pot of glue and thought briefly and said 'Eurmal, can you kindly sit on that chair, and then I will show you the first thing I have promised'. And Eurmal then showed that neither lightning nor thought were the fastest things in those lands that Orlanth ruled, and he sat on that chair, and Silonia twirled up to him on the tips of her toes and said 'But not yet'. And then she took a paint brush tipped with boar bristles, and put into the still bubbling pot of pine sap glue, and painted the back of the flax cloth that had been picked, carded, spun, woven and then placed on the mould, and she painted it with glue, and the glue went into a through the fibers and the cloth, and it and the shirt became one thing and began to harden. And then she placed a second layer of flax cloth that had been picked, carded, spun, woven and then placed on the mould at a slight angle to the first one, and then picked up the paint brush tipped with boar bristles and painted another layer of glue on it, so it would become one thing as it hardened. And she pointed to her retainers, and they placed another layer of linen on the mould at a slight angle to the previous one, and then another layer of glue and then they did it again, and again, and again. And so that linothorax, based on Storm Bulls shirt, that Gustbran's third best apprentice turned into a mould, than twelve stickpickers and cottars gathered the flax plants for, that were retted in the pit Storm Bull dug, that were boiled in the cauldrons the Lowfires warmed, which the kitchen servants tended, and that Eurmal found the branches that made the soup for ... that linothorax was built. And then they took it off the unfired clay mould and they all did a second one, and a third one, and a fourth one, and they did so many there were enough for each of the cottars and the stickpickers that Polaris was trying to get to stand in straight lines. They all wore the linothoraxes that made them look like they had Storm Bull's chest and shoulders, which made them feel very brave, so they were very brave but also due to the very many layers of flax linen cloth and hardened glue, the new linothoraxes made of very many layers of flax linen cloth and hardened glue also saw off spear and arrow points like they were hitting on Storm Bull as well. So the cottars and the stickpickers were much more willing to stand, whether in straight lines or not, as they felt they had some of Storm Bulls' bravery and courage, and they felt they were armored in Storm Bull's hide as well. And then when this was done, and the cottars and the stickpickers were standing much better, and were much more able to do what needed to be done, then Silonia looked at Eurmal, and she smiled, and before everyone she stood with her right foot pointing at him, and her left foot at a slight angle faceing left and her left hand bunched in a fist with her forearm against her chest, and she brought her left foot forward to her right foot with her heels together, and she flicked her hips back and to the left as her lips said in Polaris' voice 'Phalanx left' and then her left foot bounced back a foot length at square to her right foot, and she smiled. And then her lips said in Polaris' voice 'Shields up' and her left hand curled into a fist, like she was holdong a shield, and her hip flicked and she nearly punched her chin, and she smiled. Then her lips said 'Phalanx Turn right' and her left heel met with her right, and her right hip turned right and her right foot followed forward a half step and faced right at a little angle, then she nearly punched herself in the chin with her left hand. And she said 'And this is how I dance for my Husband, for he will get none of you to do any thing that he has not tested on his own Wife first'. And she then turned the hem of the top of her dress around and said to Eurmal 'And this is what is on the inside of my dress - it is more fabric, which I wear for the honour of my Husband Polaris'. And then she look Eurmal in the eye and said to him 'And shouldn't you be getting out of here, so King Orlanth isn't too upset with you for being absent as he goes into Hell to save the universe ?'. Once Eurmal left, shamefaced, she turned around to Gustbran's third best apprentice, and to the twelve stickpickers, and to the Lowfires, and to the kitchen servants and with a nod to the direction in which Storm Bull who had left, and she said 'And, I know that what we have all done helps us preserve all of our honours, because that battle that is about to be fought is not fought not just by the warriors, but also by all those who have made it possible to do what we all have done. And now I must go back to my rooms in the Womens Quarters, and if I have done anything inappropriate, then please help preserve my honour, and tell not my Husband of it'. And that is how Silonia preserved her honour, and how we can turn oilseed plants into flax, and that flax into Linothorax. *** The myth is written up in the style of Jane Williams' excellent 'How Polaris Joined Orlanth's Household' here http://www.jane-williams.me.uk/glorantha/vinga/polaris.cfm as her myths, and thoughts on Vinga, rock. Clearly, it's a new story developed in time, and sharp eyes with good Lore checks will identify a number of anachronisms in it, not least about why is a Dance goddess the one responsible for teaching Orlanthi how to make linothorax armor. But Linothorax are really important for hill barbarians, because it is cheap, effective armor for the poor that can be made from plants that are grown in and around the stead, using skills that the women of the stead already have. In rules-as-written, a linothorax costs about a fifth of the cost of metal armor, and works only a little worse - its not really a great choice for weaponthanes, who can afford better, but if you need to put together a scratch defense force out of stickpickers and cottars, then it's close to ideal ... and thus why this myth is told by Vingans. My view is that linothorax are a Pelorian armor, developed out of the flax growing culture, that got introduced to the area that became the Kingdom of Sartar from the north. I don't think it's God Learner thing, and I feel the EWF would be more likely to be using fancy Dinosaur leathers. But it definitely came into Sartar during Time, and so it must have a myth that puts it in Godtime, and this is my attempt at one.

Errr, could have been any of them. It happened down in Pamaltela, during the Lesser Darkness. Records aren't good. Could have been because spores were digging into something during the battle, could have been because there was a river that had a crossing where, back in the day, a spore had bored into something, and then that's what the settlement the battle was fought near was named after. Also, it was the Lesser Darkness, when Time wasn't really a thing. Yeah. We're talking deep myth. Could have been any of them.

Is it neccessary to distinguish between any Fifth Circle Mage ? I mean, they are fifth circle - they are good, but not *that* good. Do we need to worry about how they get their power, how they learned it, or how they do it ? Are we good with just writing down 'Fifth Circle Mage' and being done with it ?

This would be my suggestion. All of the group, including the ones that should be standing guard, have the same dream. A young man wearing homespun and leathers, sits at a small fire in the wind blown plains. He offers them strips of dried meat to eat and water out of a leather bag to drink. If they are cautious, he takes a small bite, or a small drink, and offers it to them with a nod. The light is low, as if it is in fog or cloudy and there is no sun. If anyone thinks to make a Spot or Search check, the young man has small horns inside his brown hair, and has had his hamstrings ripped out and probably cannot stand. If they roll against Beast, Death or Air runes, they find he has those runes. Yeah. It's Storm Bull, healing up after his fight against The Devil in Prax. The Storm Bull initiate can see something the others cannot - an older pair of hoofed tracks heading west, and a newer scuffed path back to the camp. Regardless of if the Storm Bull initiate says anything, the young man nods west. If Our Heroes go West, the destruction increases. Cropland has been destroyed, water sources ruined, herd animals shamble on less legs than they should have. Lightning and rain thunder, behind them, as they proceed into silence. If they do not, well, they've looked at I Fought, We Won and done something else. If they do, they see a great horned demon dancing on a hilltop, calling down Chaos magics. If you have a copy of Black Sabbath's War Pigs, put it on low enough for the players to hear. Ask what they do. And then have the demon turn towards them. Chaos demons engaging them in Spirit Combat will be the start of it, but the important thing is that I Fought We Won. After they defeat the Demon, some of them might live. If they bring the dead back to Storm Bull's camp, the White Lady is there - describe her in very formal, old fashioned clothes, as Chalana Arroy is of the Celestial Court - and she can and will Resurrect the dead. The Dead will get honourable scars of the fight against Chaos, which is good for Reputation. Whichever player was most definite about going west and fighting will be invited by Storm Bull to eat of the Heart of the Bull, which is red, bleeding and very chewy. If Our Hero can get it down, then Storm Khans will recognise them as a potential Hero.

What you are describing is, in my view, the process of transforming worship. The worship is going to move from the Old System based around the traditional crops to the New Way. And as well as the security implications, and the tithing implications, there is also the potential conflict between the Seven Mothers cult wanting to concentrate on potatoes, and the perhaps better connected at Glamour Hon Eel cult wanting to concentrate on getting maize *solidly* established. I'm not saying it's going to go to a Dart Competition, but it's got definite possibilities for friction.

My inner Storm Bull just said 'That means there is no grazing, and there will be open war on the Plains within a season as the Tribes fight for access to what remains'.

Darn right. You need to transform worship of all the local Grain Goddesses to deal with this New Crop, for a start.

Nick Brooke is in this thread, and he understands the best and worst of Rufelza. It was a thing, and left Chaos on the Lozenge. I am not going to say what hit the ground was was poop.

One of the several issues with the God Learners is they made mundane what should have been special. 'Homing circles' and Guided Teleportation being routine is a very God Learner thing - it's the sort of thing that happens when you have a step by step guide to how to drink from the Cup of Victory, and then walk through Orlanth's path to Kero Fin and then be able to whisper into the ear of the ram where you want to go. One of the truly great things about Mongoose's treatment of the Second Age of Glorantha is the way that they made NPCs treat that sort of stuff as if it was routine. Note that Argrath walks that path, and uses Dragon magic of the EWF to boot. Beware violations of ancient wisdoms.

That's pretty similar to the Durance River of south-eastern France, which had Romans use towpaths to move wine and olive oil up. It's a major advantage to only be working against river current while the water holds your cargo up. The Kingdom of Sartar is well placed to give a similar boost to river traffic as road traffic, as a lot of the same security improvements (aka only one set of paperwork for all the tolls) and infrastructure improvements (towpaths ! Rental animals ! Well-placed inns !) apply. This is before you mythically get the assistance of the river gods (*). Note that the roads also go up and down, which is difficult on fully laden animals. It wouldn't surprise me to have Sartarites rent temporary assistance animals to merchants for particular stretches. (*) As a side point, the Lunars stuffed up in Prax by not working a lot harder on playing nice with the Zola Fel cult. It would have made a big difference to getting a viable port in the Zola Fel delta.

Note that other places in Glorantha - who didn't get unified by a King with a deep understanding of the harmony rune and a willingness to spend wealth and magic - don't have the well set out and organised royal roads, which means their average travel speed is more like 20km a day, with mules needing to rest at least two days a week. Effectively, when it's working properly, this means the Kingdom of Sartar has *twice* the transport capacity in ton-miles out of a given investment in transport animals ... and that reduction in friction makes a huge difference for trade. Note that the 40km a day is faster average travel time than Jacques Le Saige did on his pilgrimage in 1519, and he was on a horse with money, as opposed to with a mule train carrying goods.

I find throwing name of obscure Gloranthan thing or myth into the search bar more useful than hunting on facebook ...

There's no way the use of major magic in somewhere with already-thin borders of reality and unreality could make the situation worse !