Shiningbrow

You're still assuming that other areas don't have an Enhance INT spell... Sure, "Fire" tribes should virtually been guaranteed, but it doesn't exclude others. Take LM as the prime example. Has the spell, doesn't list the Rune.

😁

You're sort of going in a direction that's been on my mind for a while.. Additives. What if it's Summon Fire Man? (Don't fumble 😋) If Summon Earth or Summon Fertility or Summon Plant can all increase your crops' output, what happens if you use all 3 Runes? Can you use a Rune twice in a spell? These, and other questions, won't get an official ruling for a long time to come...

Sarcasm. Because @David Scottwas saying that because it's done out of adventure time, we don't need those rules.

I took Logician to be more of a melding with Lhankor Mhy.... I can understand the rest. Perhaps Intensity is 1 point/5% gain?? Or something???

Ummm... ok. But, RAW, any sorcerer could pick up that Rune anyway. Getting the relevant spells, however....

Agreed. But war wizards shouldn't be going toe to toe, unless they're fully buffed. I figure such sorcerers were the ones to stand at the back and rain down holy hellfire... or rocks... or lightning... Spells are ranged attacks! They're not a Paladin...

There are numerous flaws in the rules. I think that looking for the flaw in this one is excessive. And I disagree with that bit about being the "best" spell you can make. As a simple (non-numerical) example, tweaking Logician so that it can be cast on other people, and also to make it a Passive spell, especially since Enhance INT Is both Touch and Passive*. The decision to make Logician more annoying seems to be merely arbitrary, and changeable. If that's changeable, then so would any other spell. And, thus, up to GM fiat... ..and, IMHO, if a GM ruled that I couldn't make Logician both Passive and Touch because of "I said so", I presume there'd be other rules that they'd also arbitrarily incorporate that would make playing with them very frustrating, and not worth the time and effort. (*FYI, the other mind affecting spells - Logical Clarity, Solace of the Logical Mind and Total Recall are all Passive and Ranged spells. I'd also presume there are other versions of Enhance INT that are both Active and Self only). Possibly because there's not much stopping a sorcerer from getting the Fire Rune, or from augmenting their people in other ways... Fire is nice for the INT, but Water gives Enhance DEX, and Air gives Enhance STR - both pretty potent abilities to give to lots of your people. And, really, while Enhance INT will increase your INT maybe by 4* (if you're lucky, 6 points, the additional intensity you're throwing out is only a couple of points to most spells (especially those spells that call for multiple points of Intensity to increase the effect - such as Enhance INT and BoKT), and so won't have that big of an effect.

Without some specific guidelines on that unnecessary, uninteresting and irrelevant point about how spells are learned, there's nothing to suggest that you need to be a Rune Master to be able to teach someone a spell... Unless you want to turn it up to 11... and you've never heard of anyone getting it that high... let alone getting it to 21!

That makes no sense! It would mean that any stick picker could learn a single point of a variable spell, and then just upgrade themselves to whatever they want. Or sell that knowledge and not be a stick picker... Being limited to the point value you have learned makes sense. But, I'm still at a loss as to how a Humakti Sword could turn her Bladesharp up to 11... Surely Humakt would have the spirits (or personal intervention - DI comes to mind) to do that (and thus solving this issue, and bypassing the above rulings).

Just directly relating to this, don't forget POW Enhancing crystals for boosting Intensity.. I'm sure some GMs would try to nerf this by saying that wouldn't apply, but surely in Glorantha some of them would. And never forget the super usefulness of bound spirits with useful spells. And no spoilers, but one powerful sorcerous magical item has made it into an official publication. Lastly, taking leaves out of prior editions, sorcerers could make MP storing items that replenish themselves.

What the above said, but just clarifying that an example spell isn't a "rule". Hence why I questioned it. Personally, I think the Man Rune would be appropriate..

But... It's mostly a moot point. Due to the duration possible, most sorcerers are going to use skill enhancing modifiers for most of their spells, making low casting skill irrelevant. Sure, a war wizard is going to have it a bit tough.. but then, that's why they focus on improving those spells that desperately need to be cast right now (ie, less than a minute... Or even 30 seconds). I'll presume that such dedicated sorcerers have other tricks up their sleeves as well, which may find their way into a future book on the west. (E.g., techniques. We already have variant techniques for Mostali)

Your players can't do that? I'm not sure how you meant that, but ... Philosopher is the occupation that gives sorcery, and LM is the only cult that clearly specifies it. (Do, you could mix and match with them and other occupations/cults). Also, the free allocation of skill points would also mean you wouldn't actually need either that occupation or cult!

??? Not according to which rules, precisely?

In order to have a "fail", you must also have a "pass". And to have those, you're required to have some set of criteria against which to measure. That set of criteria hasn't been outlined or discussed (here).

Riiiiggghhhhttttt... But, what if you merely take that spell list to be a small example of what's possible? Swap Runes around and see what associations you end up with. And what combinations can do... So, the problem wasn't the rules themselves, but in sticking merely with that list only... And given there are rules for creating new spells, I have to presume that was the intention. Start with "what do I want to achieve?", then look at the Runes and Techniques to make it happen.

POW gain is 1D3-1.... and only 6 seasons... so, 12.

Logician is a fairly basic spell, usually chosen early by LM sorcerers. By using the spell creation rules on p390, you could change Runes and roll INT x 3% as "A spell conceptually related to a spell that the sorcerer already knows". In a similar way, you would do that with Enhance INT moving to Enhance STR, DEX, CHA, etc.

I put it to you that using the Fire Rune us only one way to cast Enhance INT. Another way would be using the Man Rune. Personally, I'm not against Free INT rules. Sorcery can be extremely potent. Having access to 20 extremely potent spells would be OP.

I disagree. Especially with the idea that spirit magic is now a spirit fragment that's attached itself to you. So, spirit magic reducing Free INT doesn't make sense to me.

Then I think you have a lack of imagination. As well as a mindset that says "magic must be instantly and consistently useful in most situations". Logician is one of the most powerful spells in the book. Not just because of the 100+% bonus to any Knowledge skill, but because an INTx3 roll will give you a spell that gives you a 100+% bonus to *any* skill!!! Making you the best warrior in the group.

There's a perfectly simple way around that - have the character design a Sorcery Spell Matrix Enchantment spell - based off the Magic Point Matrix Enchantment. A question though - does LM's Matrix Creation Rune spell allow for implanting sorcery? After all, sorcery is his domain...

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No they won't. Most of the time, sure! But not every. And that's why I much prefer RQ over D&D and other levelling games... That one chance that the single hit from the novice takes out the master