Shiningbrow

I certainly wouldn't disagree. RAW now - yes. Makes one wonder why it changed.

While that hasn't actually been detailed in the books, I'd suggest that cult spirits normally teach the Rune Masters the spells (after all, they have to get it somehow too...). And, I can see the Command Cult Spirit spell being used to have it attack an initiate (or above) specifically in order to do the spell teaching. If we don't assume this, then we have to find a viable answer to "how does a Rune Master learn a new spell? Especially if another Rune Master with the spells isn't around?" I'd like to think their god and the associated spirits would actually come in useful here!

Depends on how you choose to factor the situation... under ideal conditions for both??? If the novice only has an INT of 13 (quite likely), v an Archmage with an INT of 18+ (again, quite likely), and the Archmage has their spells all inscribed (quite likely after years of POW gain rolls), while the novice still has to cast direct from memory (again, quite likely, given the lack of POW gain rolls to be spent on Inscriptions) - the novice is getting whacked 90% of the time... and in multiple ways! EDIT: so, you should rephrase it to at least something like "It's possible for a novice to cast a bigger spell than an Archmage - where the Archmage has been an idiot, and not worthy of the title!"

5e offers many worlds that are boringly similar. RQ has one that is amazingly and extremely varied.

😄 😄 😄 Sorry.... Blame the inventors of our current alphabet!

Ironically... yes 😛

Says the guy called 'AI'... 😛

As a general playing idea, yeah, that'd be great. However, that's really not what Heroquesting was about - and isn't about to the vast majority of cultists. There were 2 powers that tried that "gradually fills the world of heroquesting" - Arkat, and the God Learners. I don't think I need to say much more, do I? (but, players want to munchkin...)

Yep! Except Elmal... Well, except for the Lightbringers who brought your sorry ass back to the world 😛 Nope... Orlanth and co.... Not really... That'd be - to survive (and thrive) without someone else's help. Oh, you're talking about Issaries - sorry, my bad!

So... you get to be a loser forever?? Trickster LIE - "Hey DF, I'm not supposed to be here - can you send me back?"

As for gaining access to higher level spells - I'd suggest at least 2 other options (with a third open to debate). Firstly, for a Rune Lord - Divine Intervention... Spend a point of POW (and temporarily lose some RPs - assuming more than 10, or it's more POW), and your God gives you a higher spell. How high...??? Secondly, Summon Cult Spirit... more POWerful spirits should have higher variable spells (cult only, obviously), and should be willing to share the knowledge. Thirdly, as a Heroquest reward (when the rules finally come out) would seem to be legitimate (again, how high do you go?)

A shrubbery?

I'm not seeing this apparent inconsistency with the rules... I see differences. However, as a general question - do you also think all spells should be available? If we keep the 3 systems, should there be an equivalent to each spell in each system? This 'consolidation' idea sounds like it should be a 'yes'... As I've reacted above, I think that not only do we need more spells (with different and interesting quirks - which is what this consolidation would remove), but even more systems... I like the idea of shamanic charms and talismans, and covert possessions giving different powers and abilities. (Of course, that's all just my opinion)

True that! But, that does present the issue of accessing them... I think I'm at about 6 of those takes so far... (depends if you include the HQ/HW stuff...). Yours and Mongoose's are closest to what I like (which, I think, is a more RQ mechanical version of the HQ/HW set - yes?)

What the...????? THAT long?????

Oh, I so missed that 😞 I wondered why you got some of the responses you did..... I read @Runeblogger's HQ rules... not completely impressed. Some things yes, other things no. Bonuses and penalties for temples, etc and Runic affiliations ok - but then, what about Heroquests that span days (or even weeks or months?) Using runic powers - cool. Knowing what the 'curse' will be if you fail - I don't think that fits. Nor do I think that every Heroquest should entail a gamble of known skills/powers/ etc... sometimes, most definitely! Margins of success/failure aren't mentioned - and I think that should be significant.

Maybe it was loot from someone with the geas of "wear no armour on right leg" 😛

It didn't load in my Firefox.. I had to use Opera (as my backup). Very nice pic! Very detailed!!! Any logical reason for missing the right greave? She's Vinga, not one of the geas laying cults...

Forgets what?

I think you're missing an important point. All of the examples you just mentioned would require its own book (or at least, very large sections of one). We're talking about putting in a few pages. For something that had been promised decades ago. That is supposed to be a very important part of the RQ experience. So, I'll reiterate my stance - I thing Chaosium has dropped the ball by not including (a few pages on) some general Heroquesting rules in the RQ:G book. A section in the RBoM would have been appropriate (I can only presume that there is zero magic related to Heroquests...!).... A section in the Cults book would be appropriate... (it sounds like cults have absolutely nothing to do wtih Heroquests now...). As a comparison, both the sections on Spirit Magic and Rune magic were detailed in 4 pages each (the rest are just sample spells). Sorcery took 10 pages to detail (plus sample spells). And, we now have a Red Book of Magic, that in a way, makes those chapters on spirit and Rune magic superfluous (well, obviously not to that extent, but why do we have a whole new book on magic which we've (largely) already got, but yet again we don't have even a simple (simplistic?) overview of the very much awaited Heroquesting???) (don't get me wrong - the RBoM is great! I'm merely arguing that the premise of "we should be patient" is a fallacy, and that the onus should be on different priorities of what the fans have been wanting and asking for - especially those waited for a long time) Of course.... 😛

Plus, the MRQ1 book - Magic of Glorantha... about 4 pages of general rules, plus another 20 pages in example HQ myths for the major cults. (however, it's very God Learnery... but, still there!) The info is generally similar.

Maybe they just cocked up?

I think... Chaosium really dropped the ball on this one. We keep hearing this "we must be patient", but I totally disagree. It should be that Chaosium re-evaluates (or should have re-evaluated) its priorities. Rules for Heroquesting has become a joke because of the decades of waiting **, and thus should have been seen as one of the first things to prioritize. This "you've waited 40 years, you can wait another 5 (hur hur hur)" is somewhat of a slap in the face to loyal fans. *Especially* since I'm quite certain that the writers have been using some form of HQ ruleset for a good long portion of that time... And also especially since there have been other fan versions come out as well (+1 plug Secrets of Heroquesting in the JC). Given that Chaosium knew there would be a LOT of old-timers coming to RQ:G, who had been waiting "patiently", AND knew that there were numerous other sources they would meld in (HQ/HW, older cults books, etc), the basic rules for Heroquesting most definitely should have been in the RQ:G book, with expansion (more examples) in the upcoming GOG. Or, put the rules in the first GoG book, rather than wait another... Who knows how long??? Personally, I'm *not* holding my breath for a 2021 release of the HQ rules. Nor am I extremely excited about them, given I've already got 2 (similar) rule sets I can already use. So Chaosium would *need* to come up with something significantly better than those for me to consider changing. At best, I suspect I'd just take an idea or two from it, to mash in with what I suspect are already superior versions. (oh, wait... No! Mongoose, that much maligned publisher, has them! And quite a good working version, with good usable mechanics and rewards... Hmmm, maybe I should dump Chaosium and go back to Mongoose...!)

Totally! It doesn't make sense to me! "You raped someone - I'm going to take your dick"... fine! (Although, not... as per below) "You killed your second cousin by marriage - I'm going to take your dick"... odd. "You didn't fulfil your oath to kill the next troll you saw - I'm going to take your dick"... very odd! As for the rape - in Orlanthi culture, rape is supposed to be seen as a Chaotic act, and thus would be extremely rare*. How it's seen in other cultures - don't know. However, breaking an oath (eg, marriage oath. to tell the truth, etc) should be seen as bad - but not Chaotic, and thus there should be far more those things happening in Orlanthi society... and, not just by men! Kinslaying we would generally expect to be male dominated (as they make up the majority of warriors who go a-slaying in the world... and would accidentally (or on purpose) kill their kin (especially with the way tribal and clan marriages are often made - which would also be an oath-breakage). However, I can see a wife killing a husband too. (and, of course, women can rape as well... They can also be just as likely to desecrate and loot an Earth temple too...) Thus, that hand to penis ratio is probably very under-statted. Unless Babs is extremely biased in her selection of who to kill... (* I should have noted that in my previous post... given that most/all Earth temples have BG guardians, and there are a LOT of Earth temples, that would surmise a LOT of reasons for women to join BG.... I'd suggest that rape is the least likely in Orlanth society, and kin-slaying (distant relatives) and oath-breaking being far more common).

My 2c worth... I have a problem with this type of mentality (and the general portrayal of BGs anyway). Firstly, directly in reference to the above - generally, a person will feel a personal connection with the deity (and it's ideals) when they choose what cult to go into - not a more ephemeral sense of aligning with some principles. That is, one joins Barntar because one works the earth, not because of the general, well though out principle of farming. One joins Lhankor Mhy because of their involvement in the collection (and use) of knowledge - not because they have considered it a good idea for a society to have. Similarly, one doesn't join Babeester Gor because they think that it's a role that a society needs. They do so because of personal experiences have lead them to that path (there will be exceptions... but even female mercenaries are unlikely to simply join BG purely because it's a Death cult). Given this, and given that our adventurers are starting at around 22 years old, with a few years of initiation (and RPs and spirit magic) under their belts, I would think it unlikely that there would be many BGs who are actually quite young who have never personally had a reason to join - either personally been the victim of rape or other significant oath-breaking (or temple desecration), or some close person has been. One chooses to join BG to hunt down kinslayers, mostly because one's kin has been slayed by kin. And, while certainly possible to have happened within the first 16-18 years of life, and thus going on to join the warrior occupation, I think it's much more likely that a woman would have been a potter, weaver, farmer, etc. before joining. It may have been that a local shrine was desecrated that a woman has felt the need to join BG to ensure all Earth shrines are protected. She may have been married to an adulterer, and feels spurned. She may be a mother (or sister) to a brother (or sister, or uncle, aunt, etc etc) who was killed under the "peace" of parley (such as between clans). None of the above should in any way suggest that a Babs Gori should become celibate, nor to want to have kids. Nor that they need to be constantly psychopathically homicidal. (constantly suspicious ot the point of being paranoid - sure!) But it'd suggest that they're just as likely to have close, loving relationships with those they know and trust - their near and dear. Vinga, OTOH, I see as the girl who wants to get out and be a warrior - a real life-long (at that stage of her life) devotee. For that matter, if a girl's family is massacred in a raid or war, I'd suggest that Vinga be the goddess of choice to follow. Babs is about the protection of the Earth, killing kin-slayers and oath breakers and rapists... not just general warfare and its consequences. So, such a background (family killed in war/raids) doesn't fit in my mind for a BG - the ideals aren't aligned. So, going back to my original point.... having occupations other than Warrior actually makes far more sense for a BGori.