Squaredeal Sten

Now a year later I'm working on Red bird myself, and glad to see your discussion.

Well it seems there was no such release in late 2019. Is this still going to happen?

Regarding Manu's original question part 2, " does he receive an elf bow? ". That elf bow exception that Phil Hibbs refers to is found in Cults of Prax, which is the latest reference since RQG's cults chapter omits Aldrya, and the Bestiary is pretty light on the cult. Cults of Prax p.102, in the section about elf bows: " Non-elves cannot do this as naturally as the wood-born elves. If such members wish such a bow they must spend a Rune point of permanent Power to do so, under the guidance of their local Tree Lord, and requiring four years total. " So a player character human member of Aldrya with an elf bow is going to be considerably older than others, and pass the tests for lay membership and for initiation... If your player just wants a more powerful bow it's easier to just get a composite bow and invest in spells. The whole write-up in Cults of Prax makes it pretty plain that it will be hard and take a long time for humans to join (see my bold print emphasis below) , longer to become an initiate, longer after that to get an elf bow, and may not be compatible with random adventuring with the rest of a party. If the GM actually has the player do all these die rolls the chance of coming through character generation as such a human is slim. First your human has to become a lay member: " Beastmen, dragonewts, ducks, and humans may sometimes join. They must pass the Gardeners’ examination, who will also make sure, through Divination, that the foreigner has no ill intents in mind or heart. The examination may be abstracted as POW + CHA divided by 2 X 5 on D100. CHA is always minus 10 for non-Aldryami races. Other races are not allowed to join. " "V. INITIATE MEMBERSHIP A. REQUIREMENTS FOR INITIATION Candidates for initiation ... must have been lay members for at least 2 years (for outsiders) and know all of the skills listed for lay members at least 50%, plus at least 1 point of all three spells. They also must prove themselves to the council of Elders. This is done by making a roll of POW + INT + CHA divided by 2 X 5 on D100. Note that non-Aldryami races must subtract 10 from their CHA for being from a foreign race. After initiation, though, they will always measure their CHA as if they were an elf, and will have the penalty when using CHA in relation to non-Aldryami. " AFTER this they can start to grow their elf bow. " C. MUNDANE BENEFITS: ELF CULT Initiates of the Elf Cult ..... Also, every elf receives his elf seed. This will be planted on his initiation day and, in one year, will be ready for harvesting and finishing to become a fabled Elf Bow. It will take another year to finish, and each new Initiate must dedicate one week each season to making it. In two full years it will be done. .... Non-elves cannot do this as naturally as the wood-born elves. If such members wish such a bow they must spend a Rune point of permanent Power to do so, under the guidance of their local Tree Lord, and requiring four years total. " " B. CONTINUING REQUIREMENTS: ELF CULT Initiates of the Elf Cult must take a working part in the elf society. " And what about your human's ambition to become rune level? Your adventuring days in company with human murder hobos are pretty much over: " Wood Lords must never eat meat (Aldryami never do, in any case) and must never kill except in defense of themselves and their woods. "

Re. " How long do you usually see rituals taking? ": Familiar examples of rituals in the present day, real world include: "Swearing in" people elected to office. Required for Federal office in the U.S., elements are prescribed and there is also an overlay of generally accepted gestures and symbols, like swearing on a holy book, although the Constitution does not prescribe a holy book. Practiced for other offices even in cases in which by law the person elected assumes the office regardless of ceremony. The Mass, as practiced by various Christian churches: Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic. They each have their own drill, having developed differences in practice over the last 2000 years. But in all cases the ceremony contains prescribed elements that are to be done in a prescribed sequence. The same applies to communion or "the lord's supper" in Protestant and Catholic churches alike. In the Protestant churches it stands alone but in the Catholic church it is part of the mass. In both cases it is a ceremonial reenactment that can be done "properly" or not, a ritual. Baptism is another ritual that will probably be familiar to you. Again the "proper" elements differ by religious tradition but each sect has their rules as to what makes it valid. For instance sects differ as to whether it has to be done by a male, or involves full immersion. "Saying grace' at the table is a ritual. Crowning a king or queen is a ritual. You may be able to find film of Queen Elizabeth being crowned. Here, I have found it for you: So you can see by these examples that there is no set length for "a ritual". Only different lengths for the specific rituals, depending on the acts that are part of the ritual. In Runequest terms the length of the description of a ritual depends on the imagination of the GM or adventurer describing it, and the tolerance for boredom of other people in the game. In my experience both are usually short. The description of a day-long ritual does not need to take a day. But if you have a description of a ritual that produces beautiful or striking mental pictures, I won't object when you use it.

I am interested to note that in the Bestiary entry under Dryad there is no mention of Dryads moving from material to spirit form and then reappearing. It seems the description got even shorter as a change from RQ3. I wonder whether that is an intentional change to Dryads, or just a result of editing down for space. I do note that dryads also are referenced in the Spirits section of the Bestiary, which appears much later, also that they are are not listed in its Nymphs sub-section, making that speculation less probable. Instead they seem to be a variety of Genius Loci. Incidentally my opinion: There should at least have been a cross-reference from Dryads to this. It's not good to make such important aspects of a creature into little detective mysteries that take deep immersion before the gamesmaster can find or know them.

The same is true of the ash trees that were planted when my house was built, about 40 years ago. New ash trees try to come up all over, not just next to the original tree, but also 60 feet away in the middle of the back yard. The original trees are dying now (one broke in a recent storm, a big part hit my house and storage building) but these saplings keep coming up. I would distinguish between 'a tree" and the whole root system that may include descendant trees. And say a warror of Wood is one tree trunk, not a whole grove.

So any fairly old grove of trees should have a dryad? Even in areas not very populated by Aldryami, such as most of Sartar? I wonder what sort of careful tending and for how long, whether elfs can accelerate the process. For storyline purposes my answer would be maybe, yes, rune magic not listed, yes through rune megic, and bury the time period. Seems to me there is considerable room to invent new Aldrya rune magic, just as there is considerable room to invent what else they can do with plants (arrow bushes etc.).

Question: How do you get a new dryad? How does a new or reseeded forest get dryads? if as Glorantha Bestiary p. 18 indicates, "they are always tied to the tree of their birth", and they are an all-female "race" that breeds with male brown and yellow elves, then how does territory inhabited by dryads ever expand? Or are dryads only to be found in forests that date back to godtime? This question would appear to be key to expansion of a complete aldryami ecosystem. What doesn't grow, dies - so this seems central to the future of the Aldryami.

Speaking about Reseedings which Sir Godspeed brought up - new forests imply to me that they will need new Great Trees. Providing those may require heroquests or at least rune magic beyond the scope of what adventurers would encounter. Or as simple as taking a cutting? It seems to me the chance of an Aldryami colony ( new forest or taking over or recovering an old forest) implies some method of generating a Great Tree.

Will do, thanks. And I don't know how blind I must have been not to include Cults of Prax. Which I see has one rune spell that exactly fits what I'm thinking about.

I'm thinking of a small adventure that may involve Aldryami, as the adventurers pass through a wooded area. It looks as if anything I do will be a first, which is surprising considering how long Runequest and Glorantha have been around. As far as I know there is no Aldryami equivalent to Trollpack. As I look for Aldryami background material, I only find the Aldryami section of (RQG) Glorantha Bestiary and its equivalent in (RQ3) Elder Secrets. which are near-duplicates; a couple of pages in Glorantha Sourcebook, and pp.59-69 of Guide to Glorantha. A few short mentions elsewhere in the last two references. The map in GTG does indicate that there are not many Aldryami in Sartar, which correlates to the dearth of printed material. I see the mentions of the Lunars burning two Aldryami forests, but no where or when for that. Is there anything more that you know of?

Which reminds me, is that pronouced notch-it or is it pronounced no-chit?

How about Imarja? Is she saved for the Nochet supplement?

Which is consistent with the lower incidence of temples to cults other than the Big Two in Sartar. I admit I don't know how cults like Humakt keep a temple, perhaps that's why there are not many. Where in Sartar do you find a Humakt temple? Barntar should have initiates all over the place, every plowman - but gets along with shrines in Ernalda temples, so where's the expense? If you want to find hidden riches, look at the Barntar cult! Come to think of it, has anyone written or run an adventure in which the Barntar cult plays a prominent role? They just lie low and rake in the cash! Issaries is common but low expense and its temples are self funding: The priests are expected to be merchants and don't draw a salary, the temples are markets and charge a stall fee. And Issaries does commercial banking,takes deposits, makes loans, issues letters of credit. (Very bronze age by the way, the Sumerian temples started that stuff.) Presumably letters of credit are discounted somewhat or carry fees, and they must also earn interest lending the float. As you may know, "money of account" increases the money supply beyond the specie in circulation, and an adequate total money supply is necessary for trade and the economy to flourish, so an Issaries temple not only runs a profit but produces positive externalities. Do well by doing good, that's the Issaries way. However if war disrupts trade, all else equal there will be an economic contraction, so bear down on that Harmony rune. Lhankor Mhy temples are rare and also self funding, and sell services - to the extent that initiates evidently live there free. Uleria temples are obviously self funding, and recession-proof. I wonder why they seem to be rare. Chalana Arroy temples / hospitals are also self funding. (How many poor physicians have you met in the real world? And ours can't even resurrect people dead six days). This is also a recession-proof business, and war proof too. Lots of shrines, but those won't support a priest.

MJ, no, I never worked for IRS. My wife did briefly before I met her, and my sister in law retired from IRS. Neither of them had input into the Orlanthi form. I'm glad you enjoyed my parody. It was meant to be functional, though: Try it out! And of course for the illiterate 95% of Gloranthan society, your local Lhankor Mhy already recorded your crops and will stand by to assist you with your tithe reporting needs at the standard price for writing letters. But perhaps I can design a short form for those who are not adventurers and are lay members of cults.

Here is my first draft of Orlanthi form 1040. Your assistance in proofreading is requested. This covers only income and tithing. Tax obligations for Orlanthi in the Lunar Empire must be calcuated separately. 😀 Orlanthi Form 1040 draft 1 For year _____________________ Name _______ ___________________ □Son/□Daughter of ________________ Tribe, City ____________________ Clan or House __________ 1Check boxes for Cults; check boxes you are initiate or higher level in:, check only one box per line 1A Orlanth □ Initiate □ God-Talker□ Rune priest/Lord□ 1B Ernalda □ Initiate □ God-Talker□ Rune priest/Lord□ 1C. Issaries Initiate □ Rune priest/Lord□ 2. Other cults: 2A. ______________□ Initiate □ God-Talker□ Rune priest/Lord□ 2B. _____________ □ Initiate □ God-Talker□ Rune priest/Lord□ 2C. _____________ □ Initiate □ God-Talker□ Rune priest/Lord□ 3. Agricultural income after applying effects of Omens, Weather, Raids etc. ___________ 4. Multiply line 3 by 20% _______________ 5. Subtract line 4 from line 3 and enter result here __________________ 6 Multiply line 4 by ½ and enter in spaces 6A and 6B 6A _________ 6B _________ 7 Professional income from trades, skills other than agriculture after applying effects of Omens, Weather, Raids etc. ___________ 8. Adventuriing income: A. Cash _________________ B. Trinkets _______________ C. Weapons and armor captured and retained ________ D. Magic items captures and retained ___________ E. Miscellaneous: Potions, scrolls etc. _____________ 9. Total lines 7 through 8E: Total Non-Ag Employment income; ________________ 10. Ransoms you paid ____________ 11. Ransoms you received ___________ 12. Net Ransom income: Subtract line 10 from line from line 11: ____________________ 13. Net Income: Total lines 5, 9 and 12: ____________________ Tithe calculation: 14. Total number of Initiate boxes checked (add 1 if you are an Issaries rune level) ______ 15. Total number of God-Talker boxes checked _____ 16. Total number of Rune priest/Lord boxes checked on lines 1A,1B, 2 A through C ______ 17. If line 16 is greater than 0, Multiply line 13 by 90% else enter 0 _______ 18 Subtract line 17 from line 13 _______ 19. If line 16 is greater than 1 subtract 1 from line 16 and enter the result here, else enter 0 _____ 20. If line 19 is greater than 0 multiply 10% times line 18 and enter the result here, else enter 0 _____ 21. Add lines 17 and 19 _____________ 22. Subtract line 21 from line 13 ___________ 23. if line 15 is greater than 0, multiply line 21 by 50% and enter the result here, else enter 0 ________ 24. Subtract line 23 from line 21 ____________ 25. Multiply line 14 times 10% _________ 26, Multiply line 25 by line 24 ________ 27. Total Tithe: Total lines 4, 21,23, and 26 _______. PAY this to your temple(s). 28. Subtract line 27 from line 13: this is your character’s net income after tithing ______

While drafting Orlanthi form 1040, it occurred to me that skill increases and spells learned are not titheable. Only physical income is titheable.

I realize that due to mis-interpreting the RQG shield rules, we have been playing with an informal house rule; The GM has let a medium shield automatically take the damage to a left arm or chest. A mis-interpretation possibly based on a hasty reading of the shields / missile weapons section and the phalanx section of the combat rules. But it seems a reasonable thought- possibly good to add to the current rules? What do you think?

1. Trolls in the Argan Argar cult would buy bronze spearheads. It's probably hard to find a troll redsmith, so they would buy repair services too. A redsmith near a troll area might have a steady stream of troll customers. That may not help your Issaries merchant but would be a nice touch in a campaign. Trolls would buy matrices and spell trading for many non-Darkness rune spells. How about flight? Wouldn't a flying troll be unexpected and effective? 4. Giants could strip mine, where otherwise people like dwarves would tunnel. Strip mining a whole seam of bronze could be a major industrial service. As for the chaotic giants issue, what's more chaotic than strip mining?

IMHO Professional income? Yes. From the "after adventure" section of RQG, that looks clear. Land income? Yes. Nor does your cult take 10% of the net after those, because isn't your other cult equal to Orlanth's? Surely you as a good supporter will say yes and pay 10% of the gross income. Dissenters will be visited by a Spirit of Reprisal.. Income paid by the cult: Yes, it's just like in our real world social security is taxable at least up to a point even though it is paid by the government. Adventuring? Yes of course, as a player your income is basically adventuring income. Gifts? Yes because that may not be distinguishable from adventuring income. You adventure, do well, the chieftain or the duke 'gives' you weapons, an arm ring.... lots of non cash income there. The United States is interested in your cash income but that's not a practical rule for a predominantly non-cash economy as in Glorantha. After all "bronze age' implies a time before and when coinage was invented. Ransom you receive, yes. Ransom you pay, no, that's a loss. It can be deducted from your income for the year. See line 12, Gloranthan Revenue Service form 1040. The real issue is whether tithes are paid annually, or seasonally. Clearly the great need in this game is for someone to draw up a Gloranthan form 1040 and accompanying instructions.

Absolutely knowing that there is at least one troll area full of giant insects and giant flowers. What sort of honey do giant bees make? Probably pretty good stuff, and in giant quantities. Beeswax is also a very useful commodity. And it's a lot safer to get the trolls to raid the hive than for some human to try it. I'd like to suggest: - Bludgeon matrices! Trolls ought to produce a lot of these since they favor maces and mauls. Every Issaries should want one for his staff. - matrices for troll cult -specific magics. And this looks like a rich area for Spell Trading too! - Spellcasting as a service. Some troll cult rune spells may be unique. The RQ3 Trollpack is full of things. That royal jelly from giant bees gave a SIZ increase of 1 (given a week of inactivity after the dose) , with the possibility that second, third etc doses would have an effect decreasing as SIZ approached species maximum. It was also given a value of 5000 lunars and up per dose. RQ3 Trollpack also had a list of troll beverages. But the majority of these could have undesirable effects on humans, requiring magical healing. And, yes, one of them is an industrial acid. Your friendly local Argan Argar trader would probably be ready to suggest items of interest.

There is at least a fragment of an answer in one of the sidebars in the RQ2 book Cults of Prax, page 66. This indicates that Steve Perrin and Greg Stafford made up at least part of a list of medicinal herbs: " We made for a campsite at Horngate. I had little left to trade, and so Norayeep and I searched for healing plants as we approached, hoping in that way to earn enough to trade for food. The first day was poor, and all I found were roots and seeds, out of season. Norayeep found some sticky Liverleaves, useful in absorbing systemic poison from the body. The next day, I found a Jang flower, and Norayeep found some Fingersticks, both useful against wounds, and she also found some Inipris leaves, which fight the Wasting Disease. On the third day we gathered more Jang flowers, some Hairflowers useful against the Shakes, and some rare Silver Strands, which combat Soul Waste. Then we turned and hurried north to the oasis hoping to use these before the week was up. " Now it would be interesting to know whether there are any other documents using these, (a google search for "Jang, Fingerstick, Inipris" turns up nothing but Cults of Prax, while searching for two terms brings up other uses of the phrase finger stick and a minor celebrity named Jang.) It would also be interesting to discuss what effect these or other herbs might have in game terms, and under what conditions. Would you treat them as only effective when an adventurer has an appropriate healing skill, do they give a +% bonus to that skill, or how else would you apply them? PP.68-29 of Cults of Prax, in the Chalana Arroy section, has a procedure that depends on terrain for number of searches, then rolling for WHAT your find cures, then for "potency" by part of plant and season which also gives the % chance of success. At a quick reading there seems no link to skills other than finding the herbs and magically refining them. It seems to me that if the "potency' of a plant cures that many points (from 1D4 to 1D12) of damage then for wounds this stuff looks like it can be better than a rune spell, which seems to me to be over-powered for an herbal tea or a poultice. So I am NOT sure that it will be treated that same way now, 30+ years later, in the much desired and much awaited RQG cults book. Perhaps if you have a good suggestion now it may affect the content, who knows? Or it may not be addressed at all in that book. If I were making it up from scratch, I would use one of these: Have an herb give a % bonus to Treat Wounds, treat disease, or treat poison skill. Or it might have a Potency against the Potency of a poison or a disease, leading to a roll on the resistance table against the poison's or disease's potency / POW of a disease spirit. Or perhaps these might be a bonus to the CON or POW, whatever characteristic is being attacked by a disease or a poison, when the victim does a resistance roll. But those might only appeal to me. What's your opinion?

In my mind the 'check" system is easy to read as combat oriented. But how do you improve skills such as Worship or Farming that are not about acts that you can complete in a few melee rounds? And if you really have gods who provide miracles / rune spells, why would you routinely NOT do worship in a holy site and with a sacrifice? It makes a lot of sense to me to allow the player characters to improve the skills that they use when they use them in the way Gloranthan people do. So, IMHO not cheaty if it's done when it's important to the ongoing story. That's a check mark in these skills when they successfully perform the skill on important occasions (not routine occasions, not every minor holy day) during game play, not just deadly occasions but when doing game events relevant to what the PC is pursuing.. And under reasonable conditions. Just as you give players to their combat skill checks when they hit and have sense to come up on the enemy's unshielded side, so succeed - for Worship sacrificing something to the god (and getting that bonus) is a reasonable plan and true to the Gloranthan background.

Good points, the first (throwing items in the lake or marsh) is historical indeed. And if the GM wants to throw in some atmosphere both will be good. .

I'd like to offer a possible answer; The side jobs are seasonal. And a lot of the other things discussed are seasonal too. In Sea Season and Fire Season and Earth Season the agricultural field work will be done. The people whose main jobs are farming work will be planting, hoeing, and harvesting in the daytime. In the night they sit around the fire and tell legends while making those baskets etc. The herders will be abroad with their herds, distance from the village depending on the security situation. When the weather turns bad in Dark Season and Storm Season, that's when more of the indoor ("side") jobs are done, the non-specialists doing arrow making etc.. The herds will be pulled in, and in Storm Season will feed on hay or stubble, close to the village. This is also when the people will be practicing the dances for Sacred Time. People with non-agricultural main jobs will do them in most seasons: The redsmith, the scribe, the potter, the full time arrow maker or weaver. In a city this may be associated with a temple if your Glorantha follows the early Middle Eastern pattern. In an outlying village, we should expect fewer specialists (probably no redsmith or scribe), but also more lower-quality and seasonal part time home production.