Question about making a Praxian shaman character.

[goldenwheeldancer]

In the Occupation section of RQG there are various cults listed for the Assistant Shaman occupation (ie Daka Fal). Does this mean the Shaman character can be an initiate of a cult (thereby gaining the cult rune magic) as well as taking on the traditional powers of a shaman? It seems quite "over powered" that a shaman can get all the Daka Fal ancestor goodies on top of all the typical shaman goodies. Or is the best way to ignore the cult suggestions for the occupation and just wing it with the Shamanism chapter as I create the character? I'm aware that Daka Fal is a "shamanic style" cult but the player wants to be a traditional shaman (as per the Shamanism chapter of RQG) - so I'm wondering if she can be in a cult AND be a typical shaman?

Thanks for any hints!

[Akhôrahil]

51 minutes ago, goldenwheeldancer said:

In the Occupation section of RQG there are various cults listed for the Assistant Shaman occupation (ie Daka Fal). Does this mean the Shaman character can be an initiate of a cult (thereby gaining the cult rune magic) as well as taking on the traditional powers of a shaman? It seems quite "over powered" that a shaman can get all the Daka Fal ancestor goodies on top of all the typical shaman goodies.

This is how it works. Note that Daka Fal doesn't really have any good rune magic outside of the ancestor stuff, though, and that POW is the limiting resource.

If you want overpowered, then go Kyger Litor Priestess/Shaman, because OMG that's good (or at least used to historically)!

We're currently seriously missing the Horned Man write-up that's coming with the cults book, because that's as close as you get to a "default" shaman. And you have always been able to get Rune Magic from Spirit Cults as a shaman.

Edited February 7, 2020 by Akhôrahil

[David Scott]

35 minutes ago, goldenwheeldancer said:

In the Occupation section of RQG there are various cults listed for the Assistant Shaman occupation (ie Daka Fal).

The two main shaman paths in Prax are Waha & Daka Fal. 

35 minutes ago, goldenwheeldancer said:

Does this mean the Shaman character can be an initiate of a cult (thereby gaining the cult rune magic) as well as taking on the traditional powers of a shaman?

Yes, in some you get to be a priest too!

35 minutes ago, goldenwheeldancer said:

It seems quite "over powered" that a shaman can get all the Daka Fal ancestor goodies on top of all the typical shaman goodies.

Not at all. You are basically diluting where you spend your POW between two options - do I increase my Rune Pool or do I increase my fetch, etc.

35 minutes ago, goldenwheeldancer said:

Or is the best way to ignore the cult suggestions for the occupation and just wing it with the Shamanism chapter as I create the character?

You can certainly be a cult-less shaman in Prax and use spirit cults.

35 minutes ago, goldenwheeldancer said:

I'm aware that Daka Fal is a "shamanic style" cult but the player wants to be a traditional shaman (as per the Shamanism chapter of RQG) - so I'm wondering if she can be in a cult AND be a typical shaman?

Cult-less shaman are free to ally with any spirit cults. Cult shaman are often limited in what spirits or activities they can participate in. Cult shamans are the traditional community shaman, Cult-less are the traditional solitary type.

Bear in mind that you can't start out as a shaman, you'd be an assistant shaman and initiate of Daka Fal (or Waha or both). When you become a shaman you don't have to be a cult shaman, you could remain an initiate. However within what power structure there is, you'd be low down on the scale and not have access to ancestor sprits as easily as a cult shaman.

[David Scott]

4 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

We're currently seriously missing the Horned Man write-up that's coming with the cults book, because that's as close as you get to a "default" shaman. And you have always been able to get Rune Magic from Spirit Cults as a shaman.

The Horned Man Cult in the upcoming cults book doesn't have any members or powers. The only benefit is that assistant shaman can learn Discorporate powered by what even RP or POW they have (as they were initially exposed to him). The cult adds nothing to the shaman writeup in RQG.

[goldenwheeldancer]

Thanks for all these great answers! It's all very clear now! The diluting of POW seems to be the key point. Now we just have to decide if she is going to be in Daka Fal or if she is going to join a cool Spirit Cult in the future.

[Akhôrahil]

5 minutes ago, David Scott said:

The Horned Man Cult in the upcoming cults book doesn't have any members or powers. The only benefit is that assistant shaman can learn Discorporate powered by what even RP or POW they have (as they were initially exposed to him). The cult adds nothing to the shaman writeup in RQG.

We're getting a bunch of Horned Man subcults though, like Kolat?

[soltakss]

8 hours ago, goldenwheeldancer said:

In the Occupation section of RQG there are various cults listed for the Assistant Shaman occupation (ie Daka Fal). Does this mean the Shaman character can be an initiate of a cult (thereby gaining the cult rune magic) as well as taking on the traditional powers of a shaman?

Yes, a shaman can become an initiate of certain cults.

As David says, Praxian shamans can be initiates of Daka Fal or Waha.

8 hours ago, goldenwheeldancer said:

It seems quite "over powered" that a shaman can get all the Daka Fal ancestor goodies on top of all the typical shaman goodies.

Not really, they still have to spend POW to gain Rune Points, still have to progress in Runes, same as anyone else. They do have certain advantages that other members don't have, due to their shamanic abilities.

It isn't that overpowering.

Also, a shaman of Daka Fal worships ancestors and doesn't have much time for anything else.

Don't forget that Shamans can start spirit Cults and get powers and spells from various deities and powerful spirit Lords. That is actually a more powerful benefit than joining Daka Fal.

8 hours ago, goldenwheeldancer said:

Or is the best way to ignore the cult suggestions for the occupation and just wing it with the Shamanism chapter as I create the character?

No, that just gives you an unaligned Shaman. It is not better or worse, just means the Shaman can't be a follower of Daka Fal or Waha, which is odd and restrictive.

8 hours ago, goldenwheeldancer said:

I'm aware that Daka Fal is a "shamanic style" cult but the player wants to be a traditional shaman (as per the Shamanism chapter of RQG) - so I'm wondering if she can be in a cult AND be a typical shaman?

Absolutely, yes.

[goldenwheeldancer]

Thanks again for all of these excellent comments! I was late to the party in getting RQG and I think it's totally, stunningly excellent! The option we chose was just to make up a Spirit Cult for prax (using Oakfed as a template) and she is getting some Rune Magic from that, rather than joining Daka Fal - as she wasn't really into the whole Ancestor thing and obviously can't join Waha! Her first adventure will be her conflict with Bad Man as the adventurers are going to start off fairly high powered. So she will be a full shaman.

[David Scott]

On 2/7/2020 at 12:57 PM, Akhôrahil said:

We're getting a bunch of Horned Man subcults though, like Kolat?

Spirit Cults, Yes about 30. Kolat is one of them.

[David Scott]

19 hours ago, goldenwheeldancer said:

and obviously can't join Waha!

I would allow women as assistant shaman /shaman to join Waha. They would need to act and dress like men at all times and effective become men. Gender switching shaman is present in some cultures that practice shamanism - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machi_(shaman) as an example. Bear in mind also that the Praxians have always had close contact with neighbouring Orlanthi and are familiar with their gender types. 

Edited February 9, 2020 by David Scott

[davecake]

Shamans of Daka Fal or Waha can still join/start Spirit Cults. Some are even common (Waha shamans joining Oakfed, for example). Daka Fal shamans may belong to a whole lineage that deals with particular spirits. But their Power is already split between the needs of their cult, and maintaining their fetch and shamanic powers - they will have a lot less power for spirit cults.

Kygor Litor shamans and Aldrya shamans are a different story - they have restrictions on what sort of spirits they can bind to their fetch (and both only normally spirit travel to the Underworld). So they can't join just any spirit cult either. But they both have a lot of great rune magic, and a few other options open to them. Kygor Litor shaman-priestesses can get spirits from Ancestor Worship (their ancestor is Korasting not Daka Fal, but not very rules different) and access to many Darkness powers via Dehore or Subere. Aldrya shamans have fewer options but they can still join Flamal (and use many plant spirits). 

But even Jakaleel shamans can still join other spirit cults if they want (though they are probably more inclined to reach out to other paths in the Lunar way instead). Golden Bow shamans aren't restricted to Solar spirits (but Fire elementals are great). And so on. 

Personally, I hold with Kolat as a shamanic cult itself, that offers its own shamanic path, but that doesn't mean it doesn't act as a spirit cult as well. Same with the Earth Witch.