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Worcha, Wachaza and Heler


Sir_Godspeed

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Worcha (Rage) was a sea god who during the Storm Age attempted to invade Ernaldela (more or less modern Kethaela and Maniria ++ ) apparently with the aid of Helerings. 

Wachaza is apparently the designated war god of Water/Sea. 

They have quite similar names. Is there a connection between them? Is is one of those "Ehilm and Yelm" types of deal, or are they truly distinct entities? 

Also, if Worcha Rage led Helerings, would Heler have been involved in some fashion?  Could Worcha have been a chosen general or subordinate or a more martial pre-buddy Heler, or even some sea-level aspect of Heler himself? This last one seem implausible, but the connection is still kinda weird. Maybe the Helerings were subordinate to Wachaza instead? Or just a mutual alliance?

This might all be nothing, it's just something that's been rolling around in the back of my mind for a while.

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I don't see any direct similarities a God Learner would recognize.

Worcha was "born" from the motion energy of the four seas surrounding the dry spot that was Kethaela, Kerofinela and Saird, protected by the Storm Tribe.

All the seas contributing to Worcha appear to be descended from Sshorg - Slarelos emerged from Solkathi, a sea that came from the east.

 

Of the three children of Zaramaka, it would be descended from Framanthe and Sramake. Without any non-sea parentage, Worcha is a Srvuali.

Magasta (the father of Wachaza) is the child of Daliath and Framanthe, and Sapana or Robber (the mother of Wachaza) is a darkness entity. This makes Wachaza a Burta of the seas.

 

The only connection  I could find between Worcha and the Helerings is in Heortling Mythology p.66.

Quote

 One  of  the most powerful among them [tribes of people in ships and boats] were the Helerings. Those folks were clever and got their gods to cooperate to make one of themselves  powerful  enough  to  conquer  Orlanth.  They made the god Worcha. 

I wonder how and why humans or at best demigods were involved in the creation of Worcha. Why not merfolk, or their demigod ancestors, the Niiads and Tritons?

The Thunder Rebels text is less specific (p.145):

Quote

A hundred different tribes of people in ships and boats plagued the worshippers of Orlanth and the Storm Tribe at this time, seeking refuge from the flood. Several of the most powerful of the boat people made the god Worcha, in the hopes that he would be powerful enough to defeat Orlanth.

Storm Tribe mentions Worcha twice - claiming that Humakt slew it, and that Heler fought alongside it at the Trembling Shore.

On the whole, this sounds to me like this is a case of "who would profit" made by the inland culture of the Heortlings.

The Helerings later joined the Vingkotlings. Did they preserve any memories of creating Worcha? Did they contribute these to the Heortling collection of "things our ancestors did"?

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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5 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Worcha (Rage) was a sea god who during the Storm Age attempted to invade Ernaldela (more or less modern Kethaela and Maniria ++ ) apparently with the aid of Helerings. 

Ernaldala was the land south of Kethaela and Mavorela was the land between Ernaldela and The Spike, both now flooded.

5 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

They have quite similar names. Is there a connection between them?

Not that I am aware of.

5 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Also, if Worcha Rage led Helerings, would Heler have been involved in some fashion? 

Heler might have been involved. The myth I have seen has the following participants: Worcha, Three Brothers (Undertow, Press Down and Dizzy), Four Companions (Thundering Wave, Walking Shark, Poison Surf and Slashing Coral), Many Servants (Waertagi, Voti, Helerings in Boats, Helering Greatship Benkaros, Orafoda's Troll Fleet, Dog-headed Tribe). So, it looks like a concerted invasion of the land.

5 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Could Worcha have been a chosen general or subordinate or a more martial pre-buddy Heler, or even some sea-level aspect of Heler himself? This last one seem implausible, but the connection is still kinda weird.

Heler isn't really a fighting deity, unless you include Helemakt as Heler. 

Worcha was a more powerful deity than Heler, he was given the power to destroy Ernalda and managed to destroy Mavora, the Land Goddess of the first land the Orlanthi settled.

5 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Maybe the Helerings were subordinate to Wachaza instead? Or just a mutual alliance?

I don't think the sea Gods knew of Wachaza back then, I think he was a fairly late deity. 

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

The Helerings later joined the Vingkotlings. Did they preserve any memories of creating Worcha? Did they contribute these to the Heortling collection of "things our ancestors did"?

The Worcha myth sees Helerings as a sea-going people, in Boats and with a Greatship, maybe something akin to a Waertagi Dragonship. The Helerings associated with the Vingkotlings are land-based, without that seagoing side to them.

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Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

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29 minutes ago, soltakss said:

The Worcha myth sees Helerings as a sea-going people, in Boats and with a Greatship, maybe something akin to a Waertagi Dragonship. The Helerings associated with the Vingkotlings are land-based, without that seagoing side to them.

Yes., Heortling Mythology p.64 tells the story of how the sailors joined the landlubbers. The Helerings landed with a huge fleet (though no greatships that I know of, the Greatship is a different foe of the Flood Age Orlanthi) and faced off the army brought by Orlanth. Orlanth and Heler met, remembered when they last had sex and decided to try the other way Ernalda had kept nagging about. Hugs and kisses ensued, and the Helerings joined the Durevings and the Vingkotlings.

On p.66f the battles against Worcha are listed.

Here's the list of the boat-traveling foes of the Vingkotlings in the Flood Age:

  • the Waertagi (also known as Poralistorites on p.75)
  • the Voti (who sound like they are connected to the Votiryan sea, inhabited by the blue-skinned Bethegusites)
  • the endless waves of blue people
  • the black Troll Fleet of the Vanekavan (in the map Vanekauan) Sea north of Pent
  • the Greatship
  • the dog-headed tribe - no idea who they could have been, and from where. The Sedrali of Ralios don't strike me as boat people, with their four-legged females.
  • others.

The Helerings are named as one of the most powerful ones among them. We know they were blue-skinned, so they were one of the endless waves of blue people. The map index names them Helerians.

Artmali may have been among the blue people, too. Yestendites are explicitely mentioned.

 

Not mentioned are the Diroti of Sofala - possibly already dead at this time.

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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3 hours ago, soltakss said:

Ernaldala was the land south of Kethaela and Mavorela was the land between Ernaldela and The Spike, both now flooded.

 

It was my impression that Ernaldela was basically an umbrella term for the areas that the Vingkotlings held, so would encompass Mavorela, Envorela, Kethaela, Kerofinela, etc., rather than a distinct geographical region in itself. I could be wrong though. 

3 hours ago, soltakss said:

Heler might have been involved. The myth I have seen has the following participants: Worcha, Three Brothers (Undertow, Press Down and Dizzy), Four Companions (Thundering Wave, Walking Shark, Poison Surf and Slashing Coral), Many Servants (Waertagi, Voti, Helerings in Boats, Helering Greatship Benkaros, Orafoda's Troll Fleet, Dog-headed Tribe). So, it looks like a concerted invasion of the land.

 

Ah, I see, so it would a larger coalition. Gotcha. 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

They have quite similar names. Is there a connection between them? Is is one of those "Ehilm and Yelm" types of deal, or are they truly distinct entities? 

I think this is a good interpretation - it's the outsiders' understanding. "Worcha" is the Vingkotlings' (poor) understanding of the invading sea gods. I don't think he's in any actual Sea worshiper mythologies?

On the other hand, if you encounter Worcha in a heroquest, it's going to be Worcha, regardless.

Edited by Akhôrahil
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4 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

It was my impression that Ernaldela was basically an umbrella term for the areas that the Vingkotlings held, so would encompass Mavorela, Envorela, Kethaela, Kerofinela, etc., rather than a distinct geographical region in itself. I could be wrong though. 

 

My current hypothesis is that both answers are right. Original Ernaldela was probably the territory southwest of modern Caladra that sunk in the dawn age. Scattered revivalist movements retained the memory of that civilization and occasionally got it together enough to reclaim the original name across the primeval Vingkot zone. Then when their cousins came back from Jrustela things got a little weirder.

I like the notion of Wa(r)chaza and Wa(r)cha being a controversial identification or an imperfect foreigner's understanding of the same entity in two aspects . . . this is where hard work on the mer religions starts.

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