Damage Types effect

[Lloyd Dupont]

Playing Borderlands 3 now.. and loving the way various damage type work in that game.

Anyone got idea for a similar system in BRP please? 

[umlauthuth]

How do the damage types work in Borderlands? 

[Lloyd Dupont]

It can't work as is in BRP, because in BRP one has few HP and only cant do as much maths every attach and there is only 2 kind of protection (so far) Armor Point (AP) and elemental resistance (Resistance).

But anyway here is how it works, there are 6 form of attacks (kinetic, electric, fire, corrosive, frost, radiation) and 3 defence / life (that are like layers): HP, Armor, Forcefield.

And each attach will do better against a  particular form of defence...

Said like that it might sound dry.. But in game it's quite interesting, trying to use the best weapon for the job, particularly when there are multiple enemies.. add another thing that one must think about while dodging and aiming...

Obviously video game and table top RPG are made interesting with different methods..  But I wonder if there was a way to be inspired... 

[Atgxtg]

1 hour ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

It can't work as is in BRP, because in BRP one has few HP and only cant do as much maths every attach and there is only 2 kind of protection (so far) Armor Point (AP) and elemental resistance (Resistance).

But anyway here is how it works, there are 6 form of attacks (kinetic, electric, fire, corrosive, frost, radiation) and 3 defence / life (that are like layers): HP, Armor, Forcefield.

Look at the old Superworld RPG, it did something similar. The manor difference is that in Superworld you bought armor that was specific to a particular type of damage. I'd suggest something like a half or quarter armor rule against different types of armor (that is a battleship with 50 points of kinetic armor is probably going to block some fire or radiations as well).  

 

[g33k]

I'm gonna be a Danny Downer here, & call Bad Science on BL3.

It seems to emphasize the sci-fi-ish elements there, but more fantastical "science fantasy."  Lumping all impact weapons as "kinetic" is simply incorrect.  They miss explosive/concussive damage entirely?

It's worth noting that real-world armors vs weapons have (and had) distinct differences.

Chain's supremacy was overset by the narrow piercing blades.

There was a bit of an arms-race to full plate.  The few heavy melee weapons that were effective vs late/final stage plate armor were mostly superceded by guns; swords went back to light, quick, duelist weapons.

(Yes, I abbreviate & shortcut to a degree that likely induces rage among some experts; the point remains valid that specific weapons & specific armors were often developed in response to one another, and were much more (or much less) effective depending on what they faced)

Today, a simple knife (or any other blade) remains startlingly effective vs. Kevlar "bullet proof" vests -- not to mention guns loaded with hard ammo's designed to penetrate modern body-armor; and of course some of the heavier guns (e.g. .50cal sniper rifles) will punch right through the armor, the target, the armor at the exit site, and go on as a dangerous round for hundreds of meters further...

Note that the softer, lead rounds are generally MORE dangerous than the AP rounds, vs unarmored targets, deforming/tumbling/etc.  AP ammo gets a higher proportion of clean entry/exit "flesh wounds" (which obviously are just as dangerous if they take an artery.or.major organ!)

 Going back to the sci-fi -- "radiation" is usually a slow effect.  A really severe exposure may cause some tingling...  

The real risk is if microparticles get on (or in!) you; by some metrics, plutonium is the most-poisonous (LD50 dose) substance known, because a MUCH smaller dose will (eventually) kill you (causing aggressively metastatic cancer almost 100% of the time... But months/years later).

Gas or liquids might cause "corrosion," but would be protected-against differently.

Etc...

Annnnd ... full-circling 'round to RPGs again, I have seen RPGs that address different weapons' penetration vs different armors, but never played any where that feature was smooth at the table; instead it tended IME to turn combat into a rulebook-reference slog.

Getting a computer-game to handle all those differences is one of the things they do well.  I imagine some VTTs could be programmed to offer like functionality...

[Lloyd Dupont]

Thanks Atgxtg.

Of course, G33k, there is no doubt that armor, HP, etc.. are an imperfect simulation... The question to me is, are they fun and relatable?!

Although.. I was tempted to divide kinetic damage further in Blunt, Piercing and Slashing.
Because.. I was tempted to use damage bonus to resist blunt damage (and fall and wrestle damage), and... mm.. yeah maybe I like  armor to work differentlt against gun and dagger too.. mm...

Edited April 5, 2020 by Lloyd Dupont

[NickMiddleton]

I would “tag” damage, armour and creatures/objects with types: either resistant to or vulnerable to in the case of creatures/ objects, and just as a quality for damage. Then I would have resistance halve damage, vulnerability double it (or possibly flat +5/-5 or some other simple pair of shifts). No need to track specific armour values in lots of categories, one can tailor the tags to ones setting. I’d probably limit things to one to three tags at most and keep close eye on the magnitudes etc in play and adjust.

As implemented in Superworld / Future*World I found the separate specific armour values for different damage types way too fiddly, but I like the idea of something like the tagging system above to capture some of the feel of varying types etc.

[Lloyd Dupont]

Mmm... Nick.. You brought forward both an interesting point and an annoying point!
I am working (rather slowly) on a scifi campaign and you gave me some good idea for it!

However I was also planning to resume and continue my fantasy campaign and introduce more deities.. (and maybe divine ascension) using Superpower rules. With the "fiddly" Absorption power.

I have to think of it a little while...  

Edited April 5, 2020 by Lloyd Dupont

[Atgxtg]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

I'm gonna be a Danny Downer here, & call Bad Science on BL3.

It seems to emphasize the sci-fi-ish elements there, but more fantastical "science fantasy."  Lumping all impact weapons as "kinetic" is simply incorrect.  They miss explosive/concussive damage entirely?

Yup. Same with high velocity impacts vs. low velocity impacts. And to make matters even worse the same applies to all forms of damage, and no weapon really inflicts just one type of damage. And then not all damage is the same in effect. a realtively low amount of "damage" to a important location/body part (i.e .25 ACP round through the eye and into the brain) is more likely to disable/kill that a massive amount of damage to a less important location or part (i.e. .600 Nictro Express round through the tip of the left "pinkie").

Ultimately it comes down to trades off between accuracy and ease of play.  

1 hour ago, NickMiddleton said:

I would “tag” damage, armour and creatures/objects with types: either resistant to or vulnerable to in the case of creatures/ objects, and just as a quality for damage. Then I would have resistance halve damage, vulnerability double it (or possibly flat +5/-5 or some other simple pair of shifts). No need to track specific armour values in lots of categories, one can tailor the tags to ones setting. I’d probably limit things to one to three tags at most and keep close eye on the magnitudes etc in play and adjust.

That's a pretty good idea. 

1 hour ago, NickMiddleton said:

As implemented in Superworld / Future*World I found the separate specific armour values for different damage types way too fiddly, but I like the idea of something like the tagging system above to capture some of the feel of varying types etc.

Me too. It  meant that pretty much every character was fatality vulnerable to some attack or another because they  could never cover all the bases. Besides, I think "tagging" idea would also fit in with the idea of vehicle armor stopping attacks it wasn't really designed against, much like in the real world. A tank's armor isn't designed to stop laser beams, but still offers some resistance.

I could see exampling the tagging rules to allow for stuff like armor Piecing rounds, or even multiple levels of resistance or vulnerability. Come of think of it, we could probably use the weakness/limitation rules from Superworld as the model for point cost. 

 

[NickMiddleton]

Ooh, further thought - for SF games one could perhaps allow force fields / shields to vary the tags - so rather than Future*World's fiddly assigning points to specific screen types (and them being exclusive), one puts points into a strength of screen and then allocates tags - a type the screen is particularly effective against and one its vulnerable to for example.

I ought to dust off my notes on the Gate Warden universe from Outpost 19 at some point...