What was in the area where the Red Moon's crater now is?

[NewMars]

As the threat title says: it's a very, very big hole. But, I'm having difficulty getting any information what might have been there before the apotheosis of the red goddess.

[Joerg]

The ancient land of Darsen, strong in red earth and earth goddess power. Pretty much the same as has been left towards the Darsen Hills area. Unless I am strongly misremembering, agricultural land, with quite a bit of communal effort requiring cities to coordinate.

[metcalph]

52 minutes ago, NewMars said:

As the threat title says: it's a very, very big hole. But, I'm having difficulty getting any information what might have been there before the apotheosis of the red goddess.

I think there's was something called the Ervuthan lava beds.  This was mentioned as erupting in the Dawn Age (Glorious ReAscent p38) but has since disappeared.

[Sir_Godspeed]

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

The ancient land of Darsen, strong in red earth and earth goddess power. Pretty much the same as has been left towards the Darsen Hills area. Unless I am strongly misremembering, agricultural land, with quite a bit of communal effort requiring cities to coordinate.

Did Darsen extent that far south? The map below seems to show Darsen being located a bit further north. 

Wouldn't it make more sense if the area was just part of western Vonlath (ie. the surrounding tribute-lands of Raibanth)?

(On a slightly related note, this map shows Naveria as a region, which I didn't think was a thing after the Dawn) 

(Map at the bottom of the page, I couldn't link it directly, for some reason)
https://glorantha.fandom.com/wiki/Peloria

Edited June 3, 2021 by Sir_Godspeed

[jajagappa]

Mythically, it would make sense that the site of the Crater was the site of the Red City where the Red King of Naveria lived.

30 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

On a slightly related note, this map shows Naveria as a region, which I didn't think was a thing after the Dawn

Naveria is noted as a region in the travels of Valere Addi in the Entekosiad. (e.g. p.80: Valare then went across Vonlath, Naveria, and Dikoria teaching to others what she could see, and instructing them on the Goddess' message.)

[Joerg]

2 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Did Darsen extent that far south? The map below seems to show Darsen being located a bit further north. 

Southernmost extent, assuming I was right and it wasn't Naveria, in which case it would be on the easternmost extent.

(The map you quoted offers only a text label with southwest to northeast orientation for Darsen, without any indication whether that is its dominant form. Drawing a buffer around a text label is bound to lead to wrong cartographic interpretation and major woes, like removing the Balmyr tribe from the neighborhood of the Quivin mountains in debates almost 20 years old.)

The maps in Fortunate Succession don't really show any significant population center where the Crater would be left behind, but I am certain that the land wasn't uninhabited when the Goddess selected it for her ascension.

A lot less certain whether the population remained in place, and then ended up either on the moon or inside it, or caught a "Go to the Underworld. Go there directly. Do not collect..." ticket.

2 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Wouldn't it make more sense if the area was just part of western Vonlath (ie. the surrounding tribute-lands of Raibanth)?

It definitely was known for its red earth and the tradition of female sovereignty, thus different from normal Dara Happan modes.

And while much of Raibanth ended up just inside the Silver Shadow, IMO the direct control of land by the Dara Happan metropolises did not extend that far.

2 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

(On a slightly related note, this map shows Naveria as a region, which I didn't think was a thing after the Dawn) 

AFAIK (and can tell without accessing my files), Naveria was centered on the Red City, aka Carantes. Again, Fortunate Succession would be my go-to source.

As a regional name, I don't see why Naveria would have gone away - just like Vonlath, which is divided up into a number of Sultanates. As an administrative entity, I cannot say.

 

The Plain of Jars belongs to which ancient Pelorian culture?

 

[metcalph]

8 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Mythically, it would make sense that the site of the Crater was the site of the Red City where the Red King of Naveria lived.

I think the Red City is Carantes.

Quote

Karantes (large city): Called the Red City,
this city of tall golden towers built out of
sun-dried brick is the capital of the Oronin
Satrapy, home of the Eel-ariash clan, and
center of the Hon-eel cult. In the Gods
Age, the Red King sat here upon his throne
of gold, wore his golden crown, and bore
his golden scepter until he was sacrificed
by Naveria for the good of their people.

Guide p317

 

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, metcalph said:

I think the Red City is Carantes.

There is this tale in Entekosiad p.76:  "After many travels she came to the Red City. She had never seen a city before, and marveled at its tall towers made from sun-dried mud. The people had never seen a stranger before either, and took her to their leader, the Red King....  [After further events] The Red King then ordered a new city to be built entirely of the baked bricks."

Somewhere a second city was built for Naveria.  It is not explicitly named that I can find, but might be a possibility.

Of course, if you look at the 10 Cities of DH map and perhaps decided that Yuthubars was not "above" the earth, then the Crater would be very close to or at that location just NW of Raibanth.